Anabolic Steroids Are never for teenagers!!?!?!? Anarchy

[RyanDS]

Hi,

I'm twenty-five years old and have been bodybuilding for 14 years.

This, and pretty much two other forums are the only ones I've come across in my short search that have absolutely flamed the use of steroids in teenagers. My brother pointed this one out to me.

I currently am a council and national health service registered consultant dietitian. My qualifications are as follows;-

MSc Dietetics
BDA Professional Development Award
Post Graduate Diploma Dietetics
BSc (Hons.) Exercise Physiology and Nutrition
Level 3 Advanced Fitness Instructor
Post Experience Certificate in Diabetes Care
BSc (Hons) Exercise & Health

I'm also working as a PT at the moment.

I'm also studying at The Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons, and have been for three years now.

Now, with that in mind, I'm not a idiot, especially on this topic.

I want to put a simple question to the community of this forum.


Can anyone provide links to verified/approved studies (web-based or book based) showing specifically that teenagers will most likely mess up themselves, more than a fully developed body would be susceptible to?

 

[tbonexl]

Now, with that in mind, I'm not a idiot

Actually, its I'm not an idiot...

 

[kataklysum]

Actually, its I'm not an idiot...

 

[RyanDS]

Actually, its I'm not an idiot...

Thanks for pointing that out.

Anything *useful* to share?

Or are you just as bored as me

 

[tbonexl]

Your the one with all the credentials and shit. U should know why kids and gear don't mix. Quit giving them ideas..

 

[Black Beard]

Not really. If you are a teen, and want to risk fucking yourself for life, knock yourself out. That's about it. You can only share the knowledge with people, warn them of the consequences, and share your experiences with them. There isn't always a recent pubmed article or research review to back up everything that is claimed. At the end of the day, it's your body and your choices. At the end of the day, Nobody here is losing any sleep over the consequences of your choices. Some of us just like to help. This message goes out to all those boys out there on dat bostin loyd flow.






P.S. OP your introduction post is sketchy, but maybe i'm just paranoid

 

[Black Beard]

That is one ugly fucking kid. Every time i see it....LOL

The thing is, most teens abusing steroids are VERY hush hush about it and there are ethical implications of such a study. It's just not something you will likely ever see, unless endocrinology becomes more popular in the medical profession.

 

[RyanDS]

Your the one with all the credentials and shit. U should know why kids and gear don't mix. Quit giving them ideas..

My 'credentials' (studies, classes etc) suggest that in terms of developing and developed bodies react the exact same way to steroids.

I'm currently doing a project in the mentality and reality of teenagers taking steroids. Its human nature to want things now and not later. How they function at that age. Then the side effects of taking steroids, the risks exercised vs the matured body etc. The project will be very in depth.

I've read crazy things on this forum like the teenager in question may have to go through TRT for the rest of his life, he may never grow again as his growth plates have sealed etc. Just want to know the sources of all of this information, and have fingers crossed that the reply wont be 'my mate John told me', or 'my cousin's plates sealed' etc. I'm after approved studies/proven research that this may/will happen to teenagers as a direct use of steroids from the individuals who preach soo much against it.

Not really. If you are a teen, and want to risk fucking yourself for life, knock yourself out. That's about it. You can only share the knowledge with people, warn them of the consequences, and share your experiences with them. There isn't always a recent pubmed article or research review to back up everything that is claimed. At the end of the day, it's your body and your choices. At the end of the day, Nobody here is losing any sleep over the consequences of your choices. Some of us just like to help. This message goes out to all those boys out there on dat bostin loyd flow.

Hi Black Beard, thanks for your reply. I understand completely what you're saying, but the warning of a teenager messing himself up is still there. I understand that a study on this isn't exactly the done thing every Wednesday, however, an approved study/proven research must have happened for this to start spreading. Let me ask, if I may, where did your assumption that teenagers may mess their bodies up if they touch steroids come from?

The thing is, most teens abusing steroids are VERY hush hush about it and there are ethical implications of such a study. It's just not something you will likely ever see, unless endocrinology becomes more popular in the medical profession.

I imagine most people are hush hush about abusing any sort of drug, and how do you mean ethical implications of a study?

As you may know, to progress into the medical field you must have a broad knowledge in just about anything that has a partial relation to which you are studying, so that you may seek out better answers from the specific department. Now, that in practice would be a Physician communicating with a Endocrinologist, as they can be partially related in some distance. If that makes any sense? So in my studies, we must take classes on a broad range of subjects in order to enhance our knowledge to distant and not so distant professions from our own. One of these would be the understanding of the endocrine system, in which we have a Endocrinologist teach us. In the specific studies we have been shown, it definitely suggests that a semi developed body will react to steroids the same as a fully developed body.

I'm not here to start any conflict, its just a small part of my classes that has caught my attention that what we are being taught is so completely different to what the general public believe. I'd definitely like to find the source, so that I may learn and develop an opinion of my own to present in a current ongoing project. I literally thought steroid abuse was tolerated from people in all ages. It certainly was condoned many years ago, as I understand, and statistically nobody suffered from any long-term side effects from directly using steroids, nor did they play a part in anything.

 

[tbonexl]

To each, their own...

 

[Dreaded Pirate Roberts]

There are Few try Reading the article Keeping kids of steroids on the home page. Don Hooton has a few studies they did in t he last few years.

 

[RyanDS]

There are Few try Reading the article Keeping kids of steroids on the home page. Don Hooton has a few studies they did in t he last few years.

Hi, and thanks for your reply.

I've just finished reading the article. Interesting read. It's evident that Don passes the blame of his son's death onto steroids. I've sadly read many like it; not just with steroids, but other drugs, including alcohol and smoking.

I've done a little bit of research on Don and found his survey on the topic, where apparently over 1.5 million teenagers admit to using steroids and I'm afraid thats the only study I can see that Don has done. Maybe I'm not looking in the right places?

It seems that Don is the source of information for his foundation, and has strongly put the message of how bad abusing steroids is. Its to my understanding that Don has no real background or educational qualifications within the specific area of which he is preaching is so wrong. His blame is based on belief that it killed his son, and not indeed factual as far as I'm concerned as there has been no reports saying otherwise, or atleast.. that I have found.

Wasn't Don's son placed on anti-depressants, also? You could look into steroids and possibly blame that but alot more people have died from anti-depressant's side effects than steroids.

I have contacted the Taylor Hooton Foundation for some direction to their studies, if any.

Now, don't get me wrong.. I think steroids can be dangerous. I think everything in excess can be dangerous. But what makes steroids so taboo, in terms of being a teenager abusing them? Not quite as serious as crack, but way more serious than alcohol and smoking?

The studies that we've been shown were to focus on this specific area teen>adult. We were presented with studies of a teenager who smoked, a teenager who consumed alcohol and a teenager who abused steroids. The results would show that the teenagers who drunk and smoked would be far worse off, and could most likely develop long term problems in terms of diseases/malfunctions of the body.

The second study would be focused on adults. The exact same way. An adult who smoked, an adult who consumed alcohol and an adult who abused steroids. Again, the results would show that the adult who drunk and smoked would be far worse off, and would most likely develop long term problems in terms of diseases/malfunctions of the body.

Steroids do indeed carry risks of side effects. Everything has risks of side effects. I just don't understand what the difference is with undeveloped bodies vs developed bodies. It couldn't logically close growth plates or cause long term health problems. There is no proven link, and in todays research just simply isn't possible. In terms of growth plates, I have read a study where the tibial epiphyseal growth plate's reaction to direct implementation of testosterone has actually widened.


Now, on the other hand, I do believe steroids can be the blame of depression etc. However, it can be flipped upside down and varied by certain individuals and their personalities/character. This is all, ofcourse, psychological. The body depleted of testosterone as the result of steroid abuse has stopped the natural production. This could easily be rectified by putting testosterone back into your body, to help it restart. This is the optimal method.

So, I believe that if steroids are taken by a teenager, as long as a pct is carried out, and the abuse is done in a moderate, sensible and safe way they should be fine like everybody else. You can go into detailed minorities of cases where bodies will reject steroids, causing death or long term problems.

But for the purpose of simplicity, steroids isn't really all that bad for anyone at any age, as long as its done sensibly, moderately and safe.

The reason, I believe, for steroids to be very taboo and people have to be very particular with them is purely because they are illegal to buy. So everyones scared of them. Nobody ever sees a alcohol forum on how and when to take it, and what dosages are safe, and how people under certain ages shouldn't consume it etc.

 

[old&stacked]

I can say this. You are right, there are no scholarly or peer reviewd papers on steroid use and children. Why is that, because the FDA kind of frowns upon human testing and even more on children. What can be said and everyone will agree sterods effect different things in your body. From your liver by the use of orals and things such as tren, to your kidneys and yes changing the chemical balance in your brain.

As adults we have taken a well educated risk on what can happen to us. If you take a poll am sure the average age on this forum is 30+ yrs of age. Many of us are on trt and those are mods and administtators will admit that probably many of their ailments come from the early and uneducated use of AAS at a young age. I never toucjed the stuff untill I was put on trt. I have said it before and I will always say, if not for the need because of low test I would have never NEVER touched the stuff period.

Show me one kid at age 14, 15, 16, 17, that can take a well educated risk on their educational career much less on their future health. Most teens cant see 1 inch in front of their eyes and why is that because their frontal lobe doesnt stop growing and developing until age 25. Thats proven science. So if your looking for a paper on a longitudinal study done you will not find it. You want some real life experiences where folls will admit that AAS use has some how effected negatively some aspect of their life. You are in the right place.
Good luck to you

 

[RyanDS]

I can say this. You are right, there are no scholarly or peer reviewd papers on steroid use and children. Why is that, because the FDA kind of frowns upon human testing and even more on children. What can be said and everyone will agree sterods effect different things in your body. From your liver by the use of orals and things such as tren, to your kidneys and yes changing the chemical balance in your brain.

As adults we have taken a well educated risk on what can happen to us. If you take a poll am sure the average age on this forum is 30+ yrs of age. Many of us are on trt and those are mods and administtators will admit that probably many of their ailments come from the early and uneducated use of AAS at a young age. I never toucjed the stuff untill I was put on trt. I have said it before and I will always say, if not for the need because of low test I would have never NEVER touched the stuff period.

Show me one kid at age 14, 15, 16, 17, that can take a well educated risk on their educational career much less on their future health. Most teens cant see 1 inch in front of their eyes and why is that because their frontal lobe doesnt stop growing and developing until age 25. Thats proven science. So if your looking for a paper on a longitudinal study done you will not find it. You want some real life experiences where folls will admit that AAS use has some how effected negatively some aspect of their life. You are in the right place.
Good luck to you

Hi old&stacked, thanks for your reply.

My argument isn't that of a child taking an educated risk, but that of the risks being higher than an adults.

And 25 is a guidance age as to when the growth stops, a bit like the 'recommended daily intake' for males and females on the back of food packets. Every single individual is different.

Why the approved studies/proven research hasn't been done is up for debate. They've included children before, currently and will continue to do so. This will release a different type of study, which will not be classed as a study but will be classed as research as no testing was taken place by deliberation to see reactions. But, by observing how every time a child needs medication, they run a dose 'to see how it goes'. You could call this a test, by seeing how it goes, but as the primary intention was to see if the initial problem cleared, and not if the drug caused anything else, would override that as a study of the particular drug and indeed, general medical research. If steroids, or any drugs for that matter, was considered to be dangerous and could cause long term side effects then they simply wouldn't be approved or administered and instead, altered to indeed not be dangerous.

Now, you may argue that the drug given to the child was to fight a specific problem, so it was necessary. And you'd be right if you did, but in these children, there may be open source (out of education) research available to show that the child didn't suffer from any long term issues as a direct result from using the steroid. But past that, if the drug itself did harm children in the long run, then this would be seen by medical research and altered accordingly, by taking properties desired from the drug and forming a new drug. This is something again, I have studied.

You may find more information on this by looking for general medical research in this area as opposed to an approved study.

Now, I understand 'real life' experiences may be all well and dandy on here, but as you're well aware it isn't exactly factual. If the 'real life' experiences were indeed real, then the diagnosis for that would be a direct relation to steroids, meaning the medical research would increase in this area, and not studies. So, that basically leaves us with only a few alternatives. a). The person never cycled properly, done proper pct etc. b). The person only assumes this was a direct result of steroids. c). It was a direct result of steroids and this is, again, a person-to-person thing, but certainly a very large minority.

You simply cannot take for an absolute fact that a standard user posting about how steroids have been the cause of this long-lasting side effect is absolutely accurate, or true atall. The side-effect could actually come from NOT taking the steroids in the appropriate, moderate way.

What I do believe though is that teenagers are probably more susceptible for long-term effects purely because of their common urge to want things now, and not to the research of how to take the steroids in a safe, moderate and appropiate way. They may just take steroids, some even may take pct, and only a select few will understand about the 'bits' inbetween. For example, products to look after their liver such as MilkThistle, if they have any problems.

They go into it blind and come out of it with long term side effects PURELY because they didn't do the research. But again, how is that any different from a fully developed body doing the same thing? Generally adults will slow down a bit, consider things in a logical manner and do it properly. Whether, commonly, teenagers think 'dianabol is a magic pill and I'll get huge in a few weeks' and decide to pop them like there is no tomorrow. This is basic observations, that can be done by anyone. But not all teenagers are that dumb, and not all adults are that smart. So when wires cross and the teenager then becomes the smart one, and the adult the dumb one, the long-term risks will fall in the lap of the adult and not the teenager.

Thanks for contributing.

 

[3J]

what exactly was the point of this thread???

are you to debunk the idea that steroid use at a young age is bad??

 

[RyanDS]

what exactly was the point of this thread???

are you to debunk the idea that steroid use at a young age is bad??

Am I trying to debunk the 'IDEA' that steroids may be wrong for teenagers?

No, that isn't my intention here. The users may take from this thread what they will. I'm merely compiling information from the general steroid community as a part of my project. I'd like to address this grey area directly with factual evidence.

Do you have any factual evidence stating otherwise that you care to share?

 

[BigGains]

Also, OP you stated that you're 25 years old, and have been bodybuilding for 14 years. So you started "bodybuilding" at 11 years old? Come on son! Lol

 

[RyanDS]

Also, OP you stated that you're 25 years old, and have been bodybuilding for 14 years. So you started "bodybuilding" at 11 years old? Come on son! Lol

Yes, excellent maths old boy. Well done indeed.

I started at aged 11, prompted by a bodybuilding father. Who started even younger! Prompted by his bodybuilding father.

Now, on topic.. do you have any factual evidence stating otherwise to anything I've said that you care to share?

 

[tbonexl]

I don't know guy... U just posted in another thread that u eat 2-3 times a day and u get most your protein from pizza. Dont wanna jump the gun, but u don't know what your talking about..

 

[RyanDS]

I don't know guy... U just posted in another thread that u eat 2-3 times a day and u get most your protein from pizza. Dont wanna jump the gun, but u don't know what your talking about..

You've written in a context that I get most of my protein from pizza daily. I explained that it was the highest source of protein on that day. I eat different things all the time.

My highest protein source was a pizza today, and I have two, maybe three large meals per day.

So, with that aside, I think you're the one that hasn't got a basic understanding/foundation of knowledge in nutrition. You have indeed grasped the bodybuilding myths, most likely from supplement companies/age-old bodybuilders saying that you need to eat bland foods such as chicken breast, brown rice and oats 6-12 times a day. Its alot of nonsense. Your body can't tell whether or not 20g of protein has come from a lean steak bought at the butchers or 20g of protein from a frozen pizza bought at your local shop. I suggest that you should maybe give it a rest in preaching things you don't absolutely know about.

Today, this far, I had double cheese pizza, cottage pie with a side of veggies, ate fruit throughout the day, bowl of chocolate wheetabix mixed with kraves and alot of diet coke.

Today, this far, my body has benefited from 220g protein, 120g fat and alot of carbs.

If I was to change statement a). to lean chicken breast, brown rice and oats and tailor it so that the macronutrient opt> would be the same, how would my body know which source it has digested? It wouldn't. It would still the get the same nutrients. I suggest you do a bit of research. As this sort of research is WIDELY available, it only can suggest you're lazy. The majority of bodybuilders today, in this age, eat whatever they want, still counting p/f/c>cals and still get the same results as someone who religiously eats brown rice>chicken breast.

Plus a tonne of brown rice and chicken breast every day offers no real MICROnutrient consumption, so either you'll have a micronutrient deficiency or have to load yourself up with supplements (eg multivitamins etc) just to get the basic micronutrients you could have got eating differently all the time. It also reduces the stress of bland food and can be carried through your social life.

Take that and run with it, or go back to your rubber-like chicken breast and brown rice. Doesn't affect me.

But back onto topic for now, I take it you have nothing useful to share as I've asked you before? Because all you've done is share false information and beliefs. Something this thread wasn't asking for.

 

[Black Beard]

I'll give you straight facts and things that i do know. Not going to post the literature, but it's there. Like you mentioned, growth plate sealing is a possible consequence of teenage steroid use. I believe the mechanism is the increase in estrogen which speeds up bone maturation. Maybe an AI will prevent this. I know in some northern Euro country, some tall boys opt for test injections to halt their growth. The other thing is that the brain is still very plastic and probably very sensitive to androgenic manipulation. The testosterone spike during puberty can literally change the way the brain grows. Probably because of DHT, it's what makes us men. Androgens have a very powerful psychological effect on people. Well-being, aggression, cognition, all tied to a couple of cholesterol side-cleaved hormones. There will definitely be effects that you will not see in a fully grown adult from using or abusing androgenic substances. I've named a few. It is a very taboo topic but i appreciated your scientific approach and will continue to discuss this with you here. Welcome to Steroidology.



Don or Dan hooton, he's a man who's judgement was clouded with grief who pointed the finger at steroids. I believe his son died as a consequence of coming off steroids and not being prepared for the endocrine and psycological rebound. It has been stated that his psycologist(someone obviously not qualified to give medical advice in this regard) had told him to stop cold turkey. Anyone who knows about post-cycle blues can start to get an idea of what this kid put himself through. He was also put on selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors. One of the side effects is suicidal thoughts. I think Mr.Hooton's heart is in the right place and he is plagued by the regret of losing his son and not being able to do anything, but as you said, he does not have the medical or scientific knowledge to come up with such bombastic conclusions about the consequences of steroid usage.