J
Juice Authority
Guest
Anyone here ever take these two orals together in a cycle?
L
lil g
Guest
too expensive fuck that
TxLonghorn
Community Veteran
I haven't seen anybody post after that cycle that they were disappointed. Typical gains are about 10-12 pounds over an 8 week period. Also, most get leaner on this cycle.
J
Juice Authority
Guest
TxLonghorn said:
So running two orals at once isn't much of a problem? I didn't think so but wanted to check.
J
Juice Authority
Guest
lil g said:
Thanks..
J
Juice Authority
Guest
RoadHouse said:
I agree with you on that. The thing is I really wanted to try the Perutech Winstrol (winny) tabs.
TxLonghorn
Community Veteran
RoadHouse said:
If you are wanting to protect your liver from the Winstrol (winny) you can't. Your liver will take the same hit whether injected or taken orally. The only advantage injectable Winstrol (winny) has over oral is that the Winstrol (winny) gets a free ride the first time around (from the liver). After that, it will be just the same as oral Winstrol (winny). Differences in your cycle's effectiveness will be negligible, although most seem to notice a difference in effectivness between the two routes.
Running two orals won't be much of a problem, especially if one of those orals is oxandrolone since the body has an enzyme that will take care of the 17-aa before it hits your liver. This is just one more reason why ox is considered so mild and so safe.
As far as dosing is concerned, I don't think I would run ox under 40mg/day unless you were only going to cut, then 20mg would be fine. But if you are wanting to add some muscle, hit a minimum of 40mg/day.
J
Juice Authority
Guest
TxLonghorn said:
Thanks Tx. You helped make up my mind. Great response Bro...much appreciated. BTW, I was considering throwing in Test Susp along with the Winstrol (winny) and Anavar. Your thoughts on that?
TxLonghorn
Community Veteran
Well obviously anything you add to the mix will add to the results. If you are wanting more mass and are willing to experience more sides for it, then by all means adding test is what you want. If you are new to gear, unsure about the sides, etc., then hold off. Let's be realistic here, the odds that this will be your last cycle is minimal. With that in mind you have plenty of time to add test suspension in on your next cycle.
Also, adding test will not cause any more stress on your liver. Plus if you have a g/f, the other benefits can be quite...visible.
Also, adding test will not cause any more stress on your liver. Plus if you have a g/f, the other benefits can be quite...visible.
TxLonghorn
Community Veteran
RoadHouse said:
Cool, I thought you were telling him it would be easier on the liver. From what I understand Winstrol (winny) passes through the liver a bunch of times before finally being destroyed.
slobberknocker
pro powerlifter
I'd love to hit a suspension/var stack. I just don't have the money right now though.
J
Juice Authority
Guest
TxLonghorn said:Well obviously anything you add to the mix will add to the results. If you are wanting more mass and are willing to experience more sides for it, then by all means adding test is what you want. If you are new to gear, unsure about the sides, etc., then hold off. Let's be realistic here, the odds that this will be your last cycle is minimal. With that in mind you have plenty of time to add test suspension in on your next cycle.
Also, adding test will not cause any more stress on your liver. Plus if you have a g/f, the other benefits can be quite...visible.
Tx, let me give you a little background on the reason I asked about Test Susp. I'm currently going into week 3 of the following cycle:
Week 1-2:
600mg's of Enan; 250 mg's of Prop; 300 mg's of Equi; 100mg's of Winstrol (winny) tabs ED; 4IU's of HGH 5 days on 2 days off
Week 3-6:
600mg's of Enan; 250 mg's of Prop; 300 mg's of Equi; 40 mg's of D-bol ED; 700mg's of Tren; 4IU's of HGH 5 days on 2 days off - Liquidex
Week 7-8:
600mg's of Enan; 250 mg's of Prop; 300 mg's of Equi; 700mg's of Tren - Liquidex
Week 9-10:
600mg's of Enan; 250 mg's of Prop; 300 mg's of Equi; 700mg's of Tren;
500IU's Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) ED (20days) - Liquidex
Post-cycle:
300mg's of Clomd first day/100mg's Clomid next 10 days; 50mg's ED for the following 10 days - Liquidex
New Cycle: 10 weeks
100mg's of Perutech Winstrol (winny) ED
50mg's of Anavar
700mg's of Test Susp (?)
Usually I don't like taking two different orals at the same time. I've never taken Anavar with Winstrol (winny) tabs. Your last response cleared up this issue.
I am aware of the side effects associated with Test Susp. One of the benefits is that it gets in the blood in a matter of hours. The downside is that it is high in androgens, aromatizes easily and it is hard on the liver. Prolonged use of test susp is said to severely suppress the natural pituitary hormone axis, resulting in serious atrophy of the testicles and infertility.
That said, many people seem to run Test susp and Winstrol (winny) together since Winstrol (winny) is a relatively low androgenic coumpond. If I'm running both Winstrol (winny) and Anavar as a Post clomid cycle would adding Test Susp be too tough on the liver given the 10 week cycle I will have just finished?
I have ran a Winstrol (winny) and suspension stack before, and was quite pleased with the results. I cant really see how the Anavar (var) would add much more of a benefit though (price vs. results). The strength gains were amazing, and I cant see Anavar (var) adding much more strength. If you do run that stack be certain to use a strong ai. I am on a suspension deca cycle right now and even with .5mg ari ed I am still bloated.
slobberknocker
pro powerlifter
Juice Authority said:
Huh? Testosterone isn't liver toxic.
J
Juice Authority
Guest
slobberknocker said:
Are you making a statement or asking a question?? All AS are toxic to the liver to varying degrees.
Liver Function
AS may exert a profound adverse effect on the liver. This is particularly true for orally administered AS. The parenterally administered AS seem to have serious effects on the liver. Testosterone cypionate, testosterone enanthate and other injectable anabolic steroids seem to have adverse effects on the liver. However, lesions of the liver have been reported after parenteral nortestosterone administration, and also occasionally after injection of testosterone esters. The influence of AS on liver function has been studied extensively. The majority of the studies involve hospitalized patients who are treated for prolonged periods for various diseases, such as anemia, renal insufficiency, impotence, and dysfunction of the pituitary gland. In clinical trials, treatment with anabolic steroids resulted in a decreased hepatic excretory function. In addition, intra hepatic cholestasis, reflected by itch and jaundice, and hepatic peliosis were observed. Hepatic peliosis is a hemorrhagic cystic degeneration of the liver, which may lead to fibrosis and portal hypertension. Rupture of a cyst may lead to fatal bleeding.
Benign (adenoma's) and malign tumors (hepatocellular carcinoma) have been reported. There are rather strong indications that tumors of the liver are caused when the anabolic steroids contain a 17-alpha-alkyl group. Usually, the tumors are benign adenoma's, that reverse after stopping with steroid administration. However, there are some indications that administration of anabolic steroids in athletes may lead to hepatic carcinoma. Often these abnormalities remain asymptomatic, since peliosis hepatis and liver tumors do not always result in abnormalities in the blood variables that are generally used to measure liver function.
AS use is often associated with an increase in plasma activity of liver enzymes such as aspartate aminotransferase (AST), alanine aminotransferase (ALT), alkaline phosphatase (AP), lactate dehydrogenase (LDH), and gamma glutamyl transpeptidase (GGT). These enzymes are present in hepatocytes in relatively high concentrations, and an increase in plasma levels of these enzymes reflect hepatocellular damage or at least increased permeability of the hepatocellular membrane.
In longitudinal studies of athletes treated with anabolic steroids, contradictory results were obtained on the plasma activity of liver enzymes (AST, AST, LDH, GGT, AP). In some studies, enzymes were increased, whereas in others no changes were found. When increases were found, the values were moderately increased and normalized within weeks after abstinence. There are some suggestions that the occurrence of hepatic enzyme leakage, is partly determined by the pre-treatment condition of the liver. Therefore, individuals with abnormal liver function appear to be at risk.
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