Another First Timer!!Advice appreciated

[Pumping-Iron]

New to this site..
Looking for some advice..
Have been reading all about cycles post cycle therapy (pct),side effects etc for the past year..
Big into my training,Its my life to be honest since 16...
Diet and training..everything revolves around it..

Anyway i finally think the dark side is approaching...I put it off as long as possible
And knew that the better the base i build before steroids the further i will proceed while using them...

I am nearly 23 years old
180lbs
8% bodyfat

my diet consists of 7 meals a day
300g of protein
500g of carbs
moderate fats
8 hours sleep
i train 4 day split 2 on 1 off....
workouts last 45-50 mins and i train a bodypart once a week (exemption muscle groups overlapping)

I constantly strive to consume more food as this can only be a good thing once i don t start gaining too much fat..

the last year i have struggled to gain anything...i look more fuller and blocky but weight hasnt really moved..

looking at competing next year..

anyway i am planning this.. please any advice appreciated!!no bullsh$t


items needed..

clomid
letro
hcg
antiseptic wipes
cotton buds
test enanthate
needles 22/23 gauge 1.5 (glute)
hcg-29 half inch insulin needle
hot water

1#
Wk1-12 250mg teste ew
Wk12-13 500iu,s Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) every day (could i go with less)?
Wk1-14 0.6mg e3d (2X a week) letro (could i go with less)?
Wk14-18 post cycle therapy (pct) clomid 100/50/50/25


I am finding it hard to get one post cycle therapy (pct) plan as everyone is saying different...
i also learned that letro is better than nolvadex for during cycle (tamoxifen) because it is more practical to use during your cycle where as nolva is better to be used for post cycle therapy (pct) only..so i swapped them and stuck to clomid for post cycle therapy (pct)..

any points or correct information regarding basic post cycle therapy (pct) would help
I have bought no gear yet and am only planning for future and getting as much info as possible

 

[Docd187]

New to this site..
Looking for some advice..
Have been reading all about cycles post cycle therapy (pct),side effects etc for the past year..
Big into my training,Its my life to be honest since 16...
Diet and training..everything revolves around it..

Anyway i finally think the dark side is approaching...I put it off as long as possible
And knew that the better the base i build before steroids the further i will proceed while using them...

I am nearly 23 years old
180lbs
8% bodyfat

my diet consists of 7 meals a day
300g of protein
500g of carbs
moderate fats
8 hours sleep
i train 4 day split 2 on 1 off....
workouts last 45-50 mins and i train a bodypart once a week (exemption muscle groups overlapping)

I constantly strive to consume more food as this can only be a good thing once i don t start gaining too much fat..

the last year i have struggled to gain anything...i look more fuller and blocky but weight hasnt really moved..

looking at competing next year..

anyway i am planning this.. please any advice appreciated!!no bullsh$t


items needed..

clomid
letro
hcg
antiseptic wipes
cotton buds
test enanthate
needles 22/23 gauge 1.5 (glute)
hcg-29 half inch insulin needle
hot water

1#
Wk1-12 250mg teste ew
Wk12-13 500iu,s Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) every day (could i go with less)?
Wk1-14 0.6mg e3d (2X a week) letro (could i go with less)?
Wk14-18 post cycle therapy (pct) clomid 100/50/50/25


I am finding it hard to get one post cycle therapy (pct) plan as everyone is saying different...
i also learned that letro is better than nolvadex for during cycle (tamoxifen) because it is more practical to use during your cycle where as nolva is better to be used for post cycle therapy (pct) only..so i swapped them and stuck to clomid for post cycle therapy (pct)..

any points or correct information regarding basic post cycle therapy (pct) would help
I have bought no gear yet and am only planning for future and getting as much info as possible

1) test e 250mg x2 EW. Maybe a typo but should be total of 500mg per week total

2) letro is one of, if not, the most powerful AIs. Start with a low dose and work your way up as needed in congruence with bloodwork.

3)

Agree with first post, but use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) at 250-300iu max on cycle, the entire cycle, this is to keep your body producing sex hormones that are shut down. Specifically LH but Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is stronger than LH so you don't need much, studies show more that 300 on cycle or with testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is a waste.

As for blast, I'd now say with TE wait a week after last inject, then 500iuba day for 10 days. 4-5 days of no use, then start serm.

With test prop, wait 5-7 days after last inject, then 500iu a day for 10 days, 4 days of nothing, then start serms.

Keep in mind, above 250 can cause estro from lydeg cells that an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) will have no effect on plus it will increase T pretty rapidly so Aromatase inhibitor (AI) use is recommended during the cycle, even without Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) use, and during the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) blast and post cycle therapy (pct). you want to use the least amount possible and arimidex and letro need to be tapered down after two weeks of post cycle therapy (pct), I will run a very low dose of arimidex or aromisin another week after stopping seems because they continue to increase T and can cause a rebound.

Look at the half life's of you serms, even though they are used daily in post cycle therapy (pct), they typically have a longer half life so they don't clear the minute you stop use of them. But keep in mind an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) will increase T levels as well so that's why I say a very low dose.

You want to use the drugs to force the pituitary and Lydegs to produce he sex hormones to get back to normal but the goal is to get them functioning and let your body take over baturally. Most times guys don't give T or other compounds long enough to clear and end up with a half assed post cycle therapy (pct).


Also Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) during a cycle is a replacement for LH, it's just a synthetic, but from what I've read is it can help to keep dhea and pregnenolone working as well and this is how you keep from getting that edgy feeling in a long cycle because some of those hormones help maintain well being.

.

4) for post cycle therapy (pct) try clomid at 50mg all the way through, 50/50/50/50, or 50,50,25,25.

5) should consider getting nolva for post cycle therapy (pct) to help block estrogen receptors in breast tissue for the estrogen rebound.

Not a horrible cycle but def could use some work and some more research. At least I can tell you did some reading haha

 

[Docd187]

Both clomid and nolva act as anti-estrogens during post cycle therapy (pct), but by different pathways.

"Clomid inhibits estrogen receptors in hypothalamus, inhibiting negative feedback of estrogen on gonadotropin release, leading to up-regulation of the hypothalamic pituitary adrenal axis. It basically blocks estrogen from binding in your hypothalamus therefore restarts your HTPA and gets your natural test production back online."

"Nolvadex is an antagonist of the estrogen receptor in breast tissue via its active metabolite, hydroxytamoxifen. In other tissues such as the endometrium, it behaves as an agonist, and thus may be characterized as a mixed agonist/antagonist. Tamoxifen is the usual endocrine (anti-estrogen) therapy for hormone receptor-positive breast cancer in pre-menopausal women. Nolvadex basically binds to estrogen receptors and it fights for, and usually wins, for the receptor. The free estrogen in your body no longer has the ability to bind to these receptors."

****note that Nolvadex does nothing to lower free estrogen and therefore should not be used in place of an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) like letro in your case. The estrogen will still be there causing numerous problems, it just won't have the ability to bind to receptors in breast tissue for instance.

 

[Pumping-Iron]

ha ha cheers man appreciate the advice...

would you consider letro and Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) a must on your first cycle...??

and i was considering 250mg per week i know its low and maybe minimal gains...but considering how strict and my training for the last couple of years i would like to start on it and see if i gain anything...plus note any sides...

ok i will also get nolva..
so my post cycle therapy (pct) will be

clomid and Nolva combo.
clomid 50/50/50/50
Nolva 20/20/10/10/10/10

is this ok?

yes there is alot involved i will continue to read...I have a big interest in it.

 

[Pumping-Iron]

ok i understand where your coming from that explains why i had read that letro would be the right choice in this case as in during your cycle...

and nolva kept for afterwards during pct.

 

[tigre81]

clomid and Nolva combo.
clomid 50/50/50/50
Nolva 20/20/10/10/10/10

I know a lot of they guys here recommend the clomid and nolva post cycle therapy (pct) with the Nolva at 40/40/20/20. Good luck bro.

 

[Pumping-Iron]

yes i have read that also thanks man...im not ready yet unfortunately

also i see as stated above letro is quite powerful..

maybe il start with adex or preferably arosamin at 12.5 eod?
is this ok instead of letro?

 

[Docd187]

yes i have read that also thanks man...im not ready yet unfortunately

also i see as stated above letro is quite powerful..

maybe il start with adex or preferably arosamin at 12.5 eod?
is this ok instead of letro?

Letro is quite powerful but you're confusing the role of AIs and SERMs. Aromatase inhibitor (AI) is to inhibit the aromatization of testosterone to estrogen by reducing estrogen levels but doesn't help with the actual binding of estrogen to the receptor. Inversely, SERMs don't do much or anything towards inhibiting aromatization but block free estrogen from binding to the receptor. Whatever choice Aromatase inhibitor (AI) you use, keep nolva at 40/40/20/20 like tigre said as that's the most prevalent dosing recommendation in here for it. You can use letro, adex, or aromasin they all have pros and cons but they all can get the job done. My advice would be to read up in the pharmacokinetics/dynamics of each to consider any possible drug interactions with any medications you may be taking. Also the dosing recommendations of each vary so make sure you use the correct dose for the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) you're using.

I personally am not using Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) or letro on my first cycle. Cashout, a quality poster in here from before, used to recommend both products for every cycle but to be very careful with the letro dosing. It will take some trial and error and frequent bloodwork will take some of the guesswork out of it. I personally went with no Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) and am using Adex on cycle to manage estrogen. I started 0.25mg/Eod but I developed oily skin and bloat/water weight so I bumped it to 0.3mg/ED and has so far done the job. I'm on week 4 and will get bloodwork done in another month to verify I'm controlling estrogen.

I understand the apprehension to keep test dosing low and minimize sides but at that dosing you WILL get sides with minimal gains. Not worth it IMO. At that low dose, your basically matching what your body produces naturally (unless you have low T) and you will shut down your HTPA (plus take all these other drugs for Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and PCT) for something you could have achieved without test. 500mg/wk split in two doses is a very light/beginner cycle and the way to start. At 250mg/wk all you're doing is shutting down your natural test production only to pin it exogenously. Flawed logic and counter-productive.

 

[Cjb35]

Hi just wondering what I can take with tes prop as I want to bulk I'm told to take this and that but just want it to be simple iv done 2 cycle of tes e and deca but was told to try tes prop 1.5ml every other day but would like to take something else to help my diet is very good was thinking of npp but told I had to take cabergoline and aromasin to not sure if spelling is right please can someone help s simple and cheap if that makes sense thanks craig

 

[fitguy22]

Hi just wondering what I can take with tes prop as I want to bulk I'm told to take this and that but just want it to be simple iv done 2 cycle of tes e and deca but was told to try tes prop 1.5ml every other day but would like to take something else to help my diet is very good was thinking of npp but told I had to take cabergoline and aromasin to not sure if spelling is right please can someone help s simple and cheap if that makes sense thanks craig

create another thread, you will get better help rather than posting your question on someone else's thread.

 

[fitguy22]

use hcg during your cycle it will help in your recovery. 500ui a week is enough imo, AN ai is definitely needed but i would go with arimidex start it off with 0.25mg eod and get the bloods in that will tell you if you need to up your dosage or the current dosage is doing its job.
test e 500mg a week , 2 250mg right thats what you meant?
you should use clomid and nlova for your pct. i think dcd already covered all this but i would strongly recommend use of HCG and an AI during your cycle.

 

[SoHo]

hey bro you're too young, sorry. don't take steroids right now. enjoy a few more years of living off your own natural testosterone. and i say this as someone who is "almost 24 years old".

i've been on trt since i'm 22 years old and let me tell you, most of the times it doesnt bother me but sometimes it does. i didnt think it would happen to me but it did.

i really really know the exact mentality that you are in right now but steroids are really nothing to fuck with. they are not to be taken lightly. i urge you to think about what you're about to do to your body through and through, over and over again and think if this is the path you want to take.

let me add to this and give you a personal example. where i live, its very popular in your early 20s to go travel the world and especially go backpacking in a certain region like south america or south asia for an extended period of time like 3-6 months. i cant do that. why? simply because i am on TRT and i need to get my injections in. i need to get my anti e's in and i need to get my bloodwork done. that sucks right? yeah. and im not even 24 yet.