Dreamer bulk with a twist?

[71Avido]

This has been something I've been kicking around in my head; the dreamer bulk.
You know the one, eat high everything in sight making sure you get enough protein but with a twist.
The twist is instead of shoveling food into your face until you pop, pick a target weight 30 or so lbs from where you're at now, get there quickly then maintain at that weight while still training.

I know one of the big problems with this is the estrogen conversion through aromatase.
Lets take that out of the question since our lab rats get to use AI's and SERMS.

How effective is the dreamer bulk for actually building muscle in that scenario?
How would it fare VS a regular bulk cycle from low BF%?

This is a quick chart I made up illustrating how I imagine this dreamer bulk works.

Bodyweight goes up by 5lbs/wk
Lean mass goes up 1lb/wk (for arguments sake)
Fat mass is just the difference between the two.

Here is another quick chart showing why I'm thinking this way:
Without doing a VOX2 scan all day every day we can only estimate our energy needs.
Tracking intake and it's relation to bodyweight only gives you a slightly better idea of your average energy expenditure. My thought is that on an average bulk where you'd eat 10-20% over maintenance, there are certainly days where you're not consuming enough to build mass while others you're consuming too much. If point of a bulk is to put on as much lean mass as possible, why wouldn't you want to ensure you're body is getting everything it needs to build and then some? Remember, for arguments sake the subject in question is on an AI/SERM and estrogen levels are a constant.

The fat you would gain obviously carries it's own health risks but we're just speaking strictly about body composition here.

Since muscle is MUCH harder to gain than fat is to lose, why not use this approach to make sure your body has enough fuel to maximize your lean mass gains?

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[DreDay187]

Different topic lol

 

[71Avido]

Different topic lol

That's why I'm here bud.

But seriously, what do you think?

 

[DreDay187]

That's why I'm here bud.

But seriously, what do you think?

Short answer no bueno for leanness and BB goals. If strength is your goal and aesthetics are secondary, go for it. Long answer: need time to write out a detailed reply, after work at some point lol

 

[71Avido]

Short answer no bueno for leanness and BB goals. If strength is your goal and aesthetics are secondary, go for it. Long answer: need time to write out a detailed reply, after work at some point lol

Of course leanness will take a hit, the argument is that lean mass is MUCH harder to build than fat is to lose so why not give your body more than it needs to maximize lean mass gains?

I'm legitimately curious (and looking for an excuse to eat more hamburgers)

 

[DreDay187]

Of course leanness will take a hit, the argument is that lean mass is MUCH harder to build than fat is to lose so why not give your body more than it needs to maximize lean mass gains?

I'm legitimately curious (and looking for an excuse to eat more hamburgers)

Only so much lean mass can be built at any given rate of time and food intake. Go above that and you get more fat than lean mass. Go way beyond that like 5lbs/wk and you'll be getting ~75% fat mass for ~25% lean mass. Just picked those numbers as an example. The more you overeat the more fat mass that's accumulated vs diminishing returns on lean mass

 

[DreDay187]

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You don't say? But Avido said Aromatase inhibitor (AI) was in ise and estro in check.

 

[71Avido]

Only so much lean mass can be built at any given rate of time and food intake. Go above that and you get more fat than lean mass. Go way beyond that like 5lbs/wk and you'll be getting ~75% fat mass for ~25% lean mass. Just picked those numbers as an example. The more you overeat the more fat mass that's accumulated vs diminishing returns on lean mass

This is true, I agree 100% about there only being a certain rate at which you can gain lean mass. The idea behind this is that you don't want to limit your potential to build that lean mass.

I would imagine this method would behave as more of a body-recomp at 30lbs heavier than where you started. But at least your body would have all the nutrients and calories it needs to completely rebuild muscle when it needs it.

It's just going to be you and I debating this again eh Doc? lol

 

[halfwit]

I like the idea to be honest, but that means if you do care about aesthetics (god I hate that word now to the Zyzz fanbois), this means you'd have to go through a pretty drastic cut afterwards. While aromatase is an issue, you also have to look at it from the perspective of the added fat mass contributing to your weight, which puts extra strain on your connective tissues, cardiovascular system, and overall general sense of well-being.

I think this would work great if you were underweight, which I notice many of the younger "skinny" guys do; but I think for us bigger fellas it is just making things worse for you afterwards. If you can just find a happy medium where you're able to continue to put on muscle mass without gaining additional fat, you'll be not only "clean bulking", but you will have an easier time reducing overall body fat stores. I know many state that you can't do a cut and a bulk at the same time; which I find to be somewhat true, but you can add LBM AND lose fat at the same time if you choose your caloric intake and macros wisely.

I've easily put on 50+lbs of LBM over the last few years while dropping quite a bit of body fat. I started with just a deficit and trying to watch the "red flag" foods like fast food or ample helpings of desserts, but moving to a CKD program courtesy of 3J really helped me to dial in on a nice compromise between the two. I'm still getting stronger (thanks in part to AAS of course), but I'm also continuing to lean out. I think it's worth a shot going at it from that angle instead of trying to stack as much mass on you as possible while putting yourself at risk for diabetes and other potential issues.

My .02c


Note: My reply is mostly based off experiences and while the general concepts are rooted in nutritional fact, I do look forward to input from those which have a far greater knowledge base than I do in this arena.

 

[CptFKNplanet]

I agree with everyone else in here. It's really dependent on your overall goal. From a PL standpoint, it totally makes sense. You're going to be stronger at a higher bodyweight (ideally). Look at George Leeman. Dude bulked up to like 380, then dropped 150 and is a shredded fucking beast at like 230. From a bodybuilding standpoint it's really pretty useless. You're not going to put on any additional muscle than doing a slow bulk. You might actually put on less muscle when rushing to a certain bodyweight because you're adding more fat in a shorter period of time. One guy adds 30 lbs in two months, the other adds 30 lbs in 6 months. Who do you think is going to look better and carry more LBM?

 

[71Avido]

Who do you think is going to look better and carry more LBM?

Me?

 

[DreDay187]

You're gaining 5lbs a week in the hope of not leaving a single ounce of lean body mass behind on a bulk but then you'll spend an extra 2-3months cutting the extra fat off. That extra 2-3 months could be used on your next bulk building leaner mass than in your scenario

 

[Armed and dangerous]

Didn't lee priest gain a lot of weight in his off season and shed it off, and pound for pound was the biggest (little) guy out there? So all of this sounds like a sumo diet with a cut at the end, or am I reading it wrong?


If we're the only ones on here you could have put it in pt2 hahaha

 

[71Avido]

Didn't lee priest gain a lot of weight in his off season and shed it off, and pound for pound was the biggest (little) guy out there? So all of this sounds like a sumo diet with a cut at the end, or am I reading it wrong?


If we're the only ones on here you could have put it in pt2 hahaha

Lee did get crazy fat.
He has to be one of my favorite pro's out there, I just love the guy.

I really wanted to open this up to the diet section as a whole to get more opinions (hopefully some facts) on the subject.

 

[halfwit]

Lee did get crazy fat.
He has to be one of my favorite pro's out there, I just love the guy.

I really wanted to open this up to the diet section as a whole to get more opinions (hopefully some facts) on the subject.

Holy crap, that must be some INSANE stress on his body. I do feel better about myself now though LOL. Such a difference between the two images... wowzers!

 

[71Avido]

Holy crap, that must be some INSANE stress on his body. I do feel better about myself now though LOL. Such a difference between the two images... wowzers!

Lee is partly why I brought this up.
Obviously he took the off season seriously (lol) but he's been winning shows for decades so there has to be some method to his madness.

 

[Armed and dangerous]

Lee was the first person I thought of when I read this. I read that he did that every year and he said his body would start to lose the fat, almost like it was trained to do it. Don't know if its true but that's what he said.

 

[71Avido]

*that was quick*

Thanks buddy

 

[halfwit]

I'd like to know what the heck Priest does going from offseason to competition ready. I am picturing TONS of cardio and god knows what compounds. I'm still shocked by those two images!

 

[71Avido]

I'd like to know what the heck Priest does going from offseason to competition ready. I am picturing TONS of cardio and god knows what compounds. I'm still shocked by those two images!

I heard he just sits on the couch and does steroids.