Help with Powders

[boston snasa]

I'm hoping someone can help me out. I have a few different powders. I've had them for quite a while, probably over a year. They've been sitting in my closet sealed in an empty jar of protein. The pictures I got are what they looked like when i first got them.
The TE was a hard waxy consistency that melted to a clearish offwhite liquid when pressed in between my fingers.
The Deca was a yellowish goo that melted immediately upon touch.
The TP was a fine white powder with shiny specs.
The NPP was a fine white powder that would turn into hard clumps of powder if i set it down for a while.

It's been a while and I am interested in finally making this up so I took the powders out of the closet for the first time in a while and the TE melted into a clearish offwhitish liquidy goo and the Deca melted into a dark yellowy sticky liquid I am guessing due to the high temperatures this summer. The Prop and NPP are still the same condition basically. It sucks though cause some of the TE and Deca leaked out and I lost some. What I'm wondering is:

Has anyone had experience brewing powders that have been sitting around for a while?
Do the powders lose potency after being stored for this long?
Was the TE and Deca ruined after they melted?

Any help would be greatly appreciated..

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

should be fine as long as it doesnt turn black-throw it in the fridge to harden it up or it will be a bitch to weigh.

the way you described is exactly what the should be like under those storage conditions. Deca has a really low melting point and test is not far behind it.

short esters tend to have higher melting points, thats why they are in the same condition,

I dont know if they lose potency, but i doubt. If they did i doubt it would be enough to matter.

 

[boston snasa]

thanks bro.. never worked with powders b4 so i have no experience with them. just ordered all the oils and filters bb and ba so i hope it all works out. if it does, ill probably have a good 2011

 

[Mr. Humdiddly]

I'm hoping someone can help me out. I have a few different powders. I've had them for quite a while, probably over a year. They've been sitting in my closet sealed in an empty jar of protein. The pictures I got are what they looked like when i first got them.
The TE was a hard waxy consistency that melted to a clearish offwhite liquid when pressed in between my fingers.
The Deca was a yellowish goo that melted immediately upon touch.
The TP was a fine white powder with shiny specs.
The NPP was a fine white powder that would turn into hard clumps of powder if i set it down for a while.

It's been a while and I am interested in finally making this up so I took the powders out of the closet for the first time in a while and the TE melted into a clearish offwhitish liquidy goo and the Deca melted into a dark yellowy sticky liquid I am guessing due to the high temperatures this summer. The Prop and NPP are still the same condition basically. It sucks though cause some of the TE and Deca leaked out and I lost some. What I'm wondering is:

Has anyone had experience brewing powders that have been sitting around for a while?
Do the powders lose potency after being stored for this long?
Was the TE and Deca ruined after they melted?

Any help would be greatly appreciated..

Oxidation damage occurred due to heat induced liquefaction. Also hydro-absorption has occurred to the TE and Deca. Common shelf life for powders is 6 months or 1 year in the fridge.

To make the Deca and TE usable:

1.) Dissolve in methanol
2.) Use crystallography
3.) Rinse with 1 gallon distilled water
4.) Allow to dry in a coffee filter wrapped in paper towels in a cool dry place. (Not fridge)
5.) Periodically chop it up with a razor to facilitate drying and break clumps. Wait till it is mostly dry before you chop it up.
6.) Weigh daily when weight does not change over two days powder is dry.
7.) Store in the fridge.

Using them as is will result in severe under-dosing and free radical damage to oil.

 

[boston snasa]

Oxidation damage occurred due to heat induced liquefaction. Also hydro-absorption has occurred to the TE and Deca. Common shelf life for powders is 6 months or 1 year in the fridge.

To make the Deca and TE usable:

1.) Dissolve in methanol
2.) Use crystallography
3.) Rinse with 1 gallon distilled water
4.) Allow to dry in a coffee filter wrapped in paper towels in a cool dry place. (Not fridge)
5.) Weigh daily when weight does not change over two days powder is dry.
6.) Store in the fridge.

Using them as is will result in severe under-dosing and free radical damage to oil.

that fucking sucks.. so the severe underdosing part, does that for all of the powders or just the E and Deca? and what the F*ck is crystallography lol?

 

[Mr. Humdiddly]

that fucking sucks.. so the severe underdosing part, does that for all of the powders or just the E and Deca? and what the F*ck is crystallography lol?

Sigh, in the future I advocate additional research on your part. Crstallography is the slow drip of near frozen distilled water water into a supersaturated solution at a 1 to 1.43 ratio pertaining to a methanol base.

I am assuming you don't even have a proper brewing setup so I will explain it using household goods.

1.) Dissolve 10 grams of powder into 343 ml methanol. Use a bottle with a cap and swish it to aid solvency. (Buy methanol at walmart auto section, called heet blue and yellow bottle)

2.) Clean a cottage cheese container with methanol. Careful this methanol is toxic.

3.) Poke an 18 guage needle through the bottom of the cottage cheese container.

4.) Place the cottage cheese container over the methanol solution. Add very cold distilled water to the cottage cheese container till it just covers the plastic end of the needle. No water should be dripping at this point.

5.) Add an additional 500ml very cold water to the cottage cheese container. Now exactly 500ml will drip into the methanol.

6.) Using a syringe take water from the cottage cheese container and shoot it into the methanol. Continue till the mixture turns white and you see some powdery crystals on the bottom. The amount of water varies depending on the water temp.

7.) Now place the entire apparatus in the fridge and crank up the cold. Check it every now and again to ensure the needle is still dripping. Flick or swish if it has an air bubble blockage.

8.) Once the water has dripped through you will notice powder at the bottom. Remove the cottage cheese container and throw away the remaining water. Let the solution sit overnight in the fridge.

9.) The next day pour your solution through 3 coffee filters that you pre-wet with distilled water. The coffee filters should be in a tea strainer to make this go fast. A clean brand new oil funnel can also be used. The filtering can take a while be patient. You may have to scrape some crystal powder off the bottom. Add some distilled water to the empty container and swish it to get any remaining powder then pour the rinse water through the filter as well. (Make sure your tea strainer matches the coffee filter size.

10.) Leave the coffee filters full of powder in the tea strainer or funnel and continue to rinse with at least 1 gallon of distilled water to rinse methanol off.

Now just follow the rest of the instructions posted before for drying and storage. Note: I edited the original post to add a step.

Remember to scrape the coffee filter with a razor to get all powder.

 

[RJ]

Oxidation damage occurred due to heat induced liquefaction. Also hydro-absorption has occurred to the TE and Deca. Common shelf life for powders is 6 months or 1 year in the fridge.

To make the Deca and TE usable:

1.) Dissolve in methanol
2.) Use crystallography
3.) Rinse with 1 gallon distilled water
4.) Allow to dry in a coffee filter wrapped in paper towels in a cool dry place. (Not fridge)
5.) Periodically chop it up with a razor to facilitate drying and break clumps. Wait till it is mostly dry before you chop it up.
6.) Weigh daily when weight does not change over two days powder is dry.
7.) Store in the fridge.

Using them as is will result in severe under-dosing and free radical damage to oil.

No offense Hum, but all that is totally unnecessary, and I can assure this guy-I've brewed in the past for years and years-that his stuff is just fine.

OP, you're powders are totally useable. Underdosing may be present, but i wouldn't use the word severe. Not even negligible. The compounds you have do just fine sitting around even in warmer temps. So unless you left them in your shed, you're fine. I've never kept mine in the fridge, only room temp, for months at a time, some longer when I had a ton of the stuff. Believe me, you're ok.

Like Det said, put the TE and Deca in the fridge for a bit to harden them up and weigh in chunks otherwise it will gooo all over the place.

 

[Mr. Humdiddly]

No offense Hum, but all that is totally unnecessary, and I can assure this guy-I've brewed in the past for years and years-that his stuff is just fine.

OP, you're powders are totally useable. Underdosing may be present, but i wouldn't use the word severe. Not even negligible. The compounds you have do just fine sitting around even in warmer temps. So unless you left them in your shed, you're fine. I've never kept mine in the fridge, only room temp, for months at a time, some longer when I had a ton of the stuff. Believe me, you're ok.

Like Det said, put the TE and Deca in the fridge for a bit to harden them up and weigh in chunks otherwise it will gooo all over the place.

None taken RJ. We are just on opposite sides of the coin on this one. I am a bit lazy today so here is a breakdown of the underdosing of TestE I explained to another member who tryed to put powders in fridge and then brew.

Hmmm... From a organic chemistry perspective the use of cold will do nothing but harden it in gelatinous form. The melting point of TestE is very low 32-36C or about 90F. Simple refrigeration would not cause reconstruction into a powder. The proper thing would have been to dissolve it into Methanol. Then use crystallography. Wash thoroughly then grind the crystals back into a fine powder then proceed as usual. Also at 250 TestE requires 5% BA or the use of EO like GP uses. Also TestE is a longer chain and the molar equivalent is .84 due to C=1 in CHCL3

The weird color is due to heat oxidation that was not filtered out through crystallography. The free radicals have also probably cause significant decay in the GSO.

Also your solvents were off.

Not sure what they hell happened. There is now way the raws were overcook or burnt. The raws were in pur jelly forum once I recieved after waiting for three months.

This is Test E brewed at 250mg.

Here is there recipe I used:

Oil - 50 ml
Dosage in mg 250mg
Powder Weight .75
BA concentration 2%
BB concentration 20%

Results - Amounts Needed
Oil - 50 ml
Powder - 12.5gm
ba - 2.5 ml
bb - 10 ml

Could someone explain what could have happened? I have brewed many time but never had this happened.

Thanks

The proper recipe for 50ml TestE at 250mg/ml would be

Oil -27ml
Powder- 12.5g
BA - 2.5ml
BB - 10ml

You forgot to subtract the solvents and powder volume from the GSO. What you brewed would be 12.5grams into 62.5 fluid and a powder volume of 10.5 equaling 171mg/ml. Adding the hydro-absorption from liquefaction (TestE would be 32%) This would further reduce potency.
73*1.32=96.6,
12.5/96.6=129mg/ml Of course the hydro-absorption is estimated at the highest point. So your gear is in the range of 129.9mg/ml to 170mg/ml (it was gelationous so at least some hydro-absorption occurred)

testosterone ENANTHATE- 4-ANDROSTEN-17b-OL-3-ONE 17-ENANTHATE
(SAME AS testosterone HEPTANOATE)
melting point=32-36C
molecular weight=400.61
rotation= +84 C=1 CHCL3

Hope that helped. I received some TestE from my uncle that had the same issue. After re-crystallization it was fine though. I lost 1gram out of 100 in conversion mostly because I was to lazy to re-constitute the first wash. Unless you cold pack ship TestE powder this is a pretty common occurrence and no big deal.

Happy brewing I will be around if you got any other questions.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

his were way to far gone though HUM, i dont think, by the way the OP is describing them, his are that bad. See how his final product is almost black? that is whole different story, if its a lil darker than usual no big deal, ive done it.

 

[Mr. Humdiddly]

his were way to far gone though HUM, i dont think, by the way the OP is describing them, his are that bad. See how his final product is almost black? that is whole different story, if its a lil darker than usual no big deal, ive done it.

You are correct in your assessment OAK. I guess I was trying to be smart and lost track of case specifics. In my defense though I always reconstitute all my powders to ensure the result of negligent production negative externalities are not rampant.

To the OP. Your powder will be underdosed approximately 17% adjust according.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

i agree with you now, and you are correct it would be the smart thing to do.

In the real world though, not everyone can or will. I dont let mine go anymore i keep in the fridge now

if i run into the problem again i may take you up on stripping it back down.

 

[RJ]

None taken RJ. We are just on opposite sides of the coin on this one. I am a bit lazy today so here is a breakdown of the underdosing of TestE I explained to another member who tryed to put powders in fridge and then brew.

i have no doubt it may be better, but I just don't think its necessary, especially in this guys case.

either way, only reason I mentioned putting it in the fridge was to make it easier to scale. I know it does nothing for efficacy.

 

[RJ]

btw, I'm starting to really like having your nerdy answers on this board. Only because they actually have merit mind you.

 

[Mr. Humdiddly]

btw, I'm starting to really like having your nerdy answers on this board. Only because they actually have merit mind you.

Truth be told I just have a big jar of fotune cookies next to my computer. I pull one out and just write whatever it says. All that stuff on the other thread about my education was a lie I am actually an uneducated fool who works as a Walmart greeter.

 

[RJ]

Truth be told I just have a big jar of fotune cookies next to my computer. I pull one out and just write whatever it says. All that stuff on the other thread about my education was a lie I am actually an uneducated fool who works as a Walmart greeter.

hey, don't sell yourself short. It takes a smart man to be able to compare the number of items on your receipt to what's in the buggy.

 

[Mr. Humdiddly]

hey, don't sell yourself short. It takes a smart man to be able to compare the number of items on your receipt to what's in the buggy.

Wait we have to do more then just ignore everyone and pick our noses. Screw this I am going to go work on something easy like the genome project.

 

[boston snasa]

wow thanks alot guys.. i appreciate it.. gonna brew it up this week ill let u know how it comes out

 

[boston snasa]

awesome pic RJH.. you look great.. do u compete?? and thanks Hum and Oak the input is greatly appreciated.

 

[jimbo79]

Well damn it...thank god I'm not smart!

That shits complicated...I will stick with the pre-villed vials...sorry to bump..

 

[RJ]

awesome pic RJH.. you look great.. do u compete?? and thanks Hum and Oak the input is greatly appreciated.

competed once back in 07. Thanks.