How many with libido/erection issues have looked at progesterone?

[Billegitimate]

My wife and I are both on TRT. Great results for us overall, but my sweet lady wasn't feeling as energetic as normal and got some labwork done. One of the things they tested was progesterone, and it came back very low. Of course, I immediately started doing some reading...

I won't go into the details for her at this point, but I become convinced that if her testosterone was low to begin with (prior to TRT) that she was probably low on progesterone as well. So that got me to thinking and I started searching for "progesterone in men" and came across info I just hadn't dug into before.

First, progesterone is critical to men and like testosterone is produced in adrenals and testes. It seems likely that if you're low on T you're going to be low on progesterone as well.

Second, progesterone appears to lower estrogen in men.

Third, progesterone in some cases can make a substantial impact on libido and erection quality.

I encourage you to google "progesterone in men" and dive in to the research, but I wonder how many men who come here saying their T levels are fine but erections and libido aren't there have issues with low progesterone and it's not related to estradiol as is often suggested. It would also seem to explain the men who do great on T for a year or two, then report diminished libido and erections, since the testes are shut down and I would hypothesize they are no longer contributing progesterone to the system.

Privatemdlabs has a progesterone add-on for less than $50, so next time I get labs I'm either adding it, or I'm going to spring for one of the 300-400 buck tests that includes it along with other things I don't measure on a regular basis.

Bottom line, I think it's easy for us to fall into a testosterone/estrogen focus that doesn't really reflect the complexity of what we're dealing with. If we're going to interfere with a system that attempts to achieve balance on many fronts, then we need to be prepared to deal with all the upstream and downstream elements that may need to be tinkered with to achieve optimal results. The body isn't as simple as "just add T" and you're good to go. It's a balance of many hormones, as well as dopamine/serotonin, to achieve optimal sexual and athletic response.

When I get around to getting this tested I'll post again what my levels are and if I undertake an approach to modifying them.

 

[chankle]

I haven't looked, but I don't think there's going to be any data on supplementing P4 (progesterone) as part of TRT. There's really a paucity of evidence in respect to optimal E2 levels while on TRT despite that being a far more commonly tested hormone. It's generally accepted in the TRT world that E2 ~30 might be optimal, but there's no data to back that up. There is some data on aromatase inhibitors in hypogonadal men, but if I remember correctly it showed bone loss with no subjective improvement in clinical symptoms. From an N=1 experience, elevated P4 levels (which you could likely expect with any degree of supplementation given the already low levels in men) makes you feel terrible. Hot flashes, fatigue, water retention, poor mood. I've never noticed anything good out of a high/normal or elevated P4 level. Furthermore, P4 is a partial agonist at the androgen receptor thereby blocking the more potent androgen (T and DHT). In my case, increasing P4 is extremely easy with a small shot of HCG. IMO, my issue is due to underactivity of the 17,20 lyase enzyme, but I've never underwent testing to confirm it. Looking at steroid synthesis it makes sense though. Even when you suppress the HPTA with T injections I doubt you are dropping P4 levels to below normal limits as the normal value is already extremely low and you'll still have production from the adrenal glands. If guys on TRT are concerned about ancillary hormone levels (E2, P4, DHEA, A4, etc.) they can always use low dose HCG 1-2 times a week with the benefit of maintaining testicular size and augmenting fertility to some degree. That said, results will be purely subjective because we have no data to describe optimal levels of those hormones while under TRT or if they even matter?

The above is in reference to men. Libido may be more linked to P4 in women given it acts as a weak androgen. As for how women feel with varying levels of P4 I won't get into. Far more complicated given the menstrual cycle and constantly varying levels.

*The above is for discussion purposes only and does not constitute medical advice. All medical decisions should be discussed with your physician*

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Are you on HCG? This should stimulate progesterone as its made in the testes.

Progesterone is also responsible for endothelial function so it is a very important hormone.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

The above is in reference to men. Libido may be more linked to P4 in women given it acts as a weak androgen. As for how women feel with varying levels of P4 I won't get into. Far more complicated given the menstrual cycle and constantly varying levels.

For women testosterone and estrogen are up until about day 14-17 of their 28 day cycle. Then estrogen drops rapidly as progesterone increases to stimulate the cervix and start menstruation.

This is why they get a little more frisky near their period

Studies have also shown they subconsciously seek the alpha male during this period

 

[Billegitimate]

Are you on HCG? This should stimulate progesterone as its made in the testes.

Progesterone is also responsible for endothelial function so it is a very important hormone.

250iu twice a week, actually. Any more than that and I feel kinda lousy even though I can't figure out why by measuring T and E2. Whatever is going on that makes me feel crummy, it isn't going on with those hormones.

I actually feel better without hcg at all, but the danglers don't quite dangle as much if I go without.

It astounds me how much conflicting information there is on all of these issues. Modern medicine is about as settled as which political approach is better for the country.

 

[chankle]

250iu twice a week, actually. Any more than that and I feel kinda lousy even though I can't figure out why by measuring T and E2. Whatever is going on that makes me feel crummy, it isn't going on with those hormones.

I actually feel better without hcg at all, but the danglers don't quite dangle as much if I go without.

It astounds me how much conflicting information there is on all of these issues. Modern medicine is about as settled as which political approach is better for the country.

I bet progesterone is your answer to why higher dosed HCG makes you feel poorly. I'm the exact same way. Anything over 250iu twice weekly and I feel terrible.

 

[Jimstigator]

I bet progesterone is your answer to why higher dosed HCG makes you feel poorly. I'm the exact same way. Anything over 250iu twice weekly and I feel terrible.

Same. Even 250iu shots made me feel like dirt. I'm currently trying 50iu a day with better luck. Hoping to increase it slowly if I can take it.

As for progesterone, I wouldent supplement it as a man. I've read a bunch of nasty stuff about it. Directly from a well respected TRT Dr... "Progesterone is a highly feminizing hormone in males".

-Jim

 

[xplicid]

Strange how hcg either makes people feel lousy or amazing

 

[halfwit]

Don't forget, women have a vastly different HPGA than we do, and in fact don't become suppressed at all in the same manner as men. From what I understand, while we men have a balancing act on two fronts with testosterone and estradiol - the remaining "trace" hormones do have an impact on well-being. This is one of the many facets I did personally spend some time in trying to understand myself; and as Todd mentioned, can be fixed with HCG.

Women have a three-way balancing act between progesterone/testosterone/estradiol, and I'm curious as to how your wife's is out of whack. Is she taking birth control by chance? Some hormonal birth control methods intentionally bring this balance out of phase by often making them dominant in one area or another. If not, she may want to look into supplementing with progesterone to bring things back into balance.

My .02c

 

[Mprtz]

Same. Even 250iu shots made me feel like dirt. I'm currently trying 50iu a day with better luck. Hoping to increase it slowly if I can take it.

As for progesterone, I wouldent supplement it as a man. I've read a bunch of nasty stuff about it. Directly from a well respected TRT Dr... "Progesterone is a highly feminizing hormone in males".

-Jim

I used to take it (progesterone SR - 50mg per day) prescribed with my TRT protocol. The rationale was for the prostate protective properties it is supposed to have. At the time I had some prostate irritation, but I think that was mostly due to high E2.

I lab tested progesterone once while on that protocol, and it came back top of normal range. There is a range for men, so I don't think it can be that harmful in appropriate amounts.

That said, I didn't feel any different with our without it.

 

[Xander24]

Interesting, I've been prescribed 10mg of progesterone / day on my trt protocol as I was low on it. I've posted in the steroid board wondering if blasting NPP is a bad idea while supplementing it. I don't think so as I'll be keeping E2 in check with aromasin. Since I paid for it to be compounded with my DHEA, and pregnenolone I'm going to stick with it until it's gone, and then see how I feel before I decide to either continue or just up my HCG dose.

 

[juced_porkchop]

you should have all of them tested in her and you then go from there.

but for libido fix for now I rec iPT141 and maybe some CIA.

 

[Poppadelta]

Guys - this thread is gold! I was taking 30mg test cyp twice weekly and feeling on my game across the board (gym, sex, work and humour), added in 500i.u. Of HCG for the twins and all of a sudden I have hot flashes and a whiney "mangina" day out of nowhere. My E is ok and at those doses, it shouldn't bump like that but the progesterone makes perfect sense. I'm going to drop the HCG in half and see how that works. Another possibility would be to increase my test and see if it's a testrogesterone ratio issue but I'd rather keep my doses physiologic at this point.

Cheers,

Poppa