In a dilemma, . . . .

[JOWS6]

The day I started the testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) protocol, I decided to get a comprehensive blood panel done to jus' use as a reference as to where I stood at that moment. One of the things I checked was Estradiol which I haven't checked before. My lab value came in at 62 with a range of 20-47. I was about 10 days into my testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) protocol when I received these results and I placed my testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) on pause, but I continued to take the Anastrozole at .5mg's EOD.

About 6 weeks later I retested and here are my values JUS ON THE AI(NO TEST or HCG!):

Total Testosterone: 638 (250-1100)
Free Testosterone: 99 (50-150)
Estradiol: 24 (20-47)


I am overweight at 5'8" and 260 pounds and I am thinking my hypogonadism is due to being overweight. Any of the testosterone I produce is quickly converting into estradiol. However, I do not feel any better. My Testosterone increased and my Estradiol is in optimal range but my libido has not picked up. I don't know what to do from here. The only thing that I can think of is that the test was done too early, and picked up high levels of testosterone. I got blood tests from a local doc' jus' down the street, (on the same block actually). So I literally rolled out of bed in the morning and had my blood drawn.

So what do you guys think? My girlfriend said well that's good news but I feel the opposite. My testosterone levels are better but I still feel like crap! I'm going to call tomorrow and double check my free testosterone values as now that I am looking at it, . . it seems like a weird range. Maybe I misheard and 99 is actually on the bottom range. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

 

[JOWS6]

Here are my values before in 2010:

Total Testosterone: 170 250-1100
Free Tesosterone: 24 46-224
BioAvail Testosterone: 50 110-575
Prolactin: 7.5 2.0 - 18.0
SHBG: 27 7-49
FSH: 3.1 1.6-8.0

 

[cjw2021]

I'll PM you bro. You did not follow through with the prescriptions and you are solo on an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) with no test and with a somewhat elevated SHBG. That is why you feel like shit still. Nothing that can't be fixed. I'm not saying you have to go on test per se. If indeed this Aromatase inhibitor (AI) is really elevating your testosterone you don't want to be dependent on something that crashes your estrogen to elevate your testosterone if you are hanging around the 300 levels all the other time. Getting healthy is about keeping your levels optimal all the time, not rapidly fluctuating with high estrogen or low testosterone. I'm not the doctor obviously but these things stand out to me just my 2 cents from my personal experience. If you do what the doctor tells you and read my PM you cannot not feel better. Then gradually week by week on the RIGHT protocol from the doctor, not from you, you will feel 110%. Testosterone does elevate thyroid binding globulin. I just take 1 armor a day and it gives me extra energy without a doubt (not that I need it or any woman in my life thinks I need it). You aren't on test though obviously.

 

[railrider]

Dude I had optimum levels of E2 and Test and kept having problem after problem and I started to research Thyroid levels and checking mine Drs kept telling me I was normal but my research said otherwise. Sure enough I brought those levels up to optimal also and things have turned around. There's more to the Endocrine system than just test if you have a problem with one you may have problems else where. Just a thought.

 

[cjw2021]

1 armor a day is what I take. Everyone should take it in the goitre belt especially.

 

[mlc31]

Honestly, I hear a lot of guys talking about numbers this and numbers that. This is in the normal range and this is in the upper range. Who gives a fuck! Everybody is different. Your body processes medication differently than anyone else. What's a normal range for someone else may not be normal for you. You may as well take those numbers on the chart and stick them up your ass and set fire to it. I don't care if you're numbers for test show you are in a normal range. Who fucking cares what the numbers are if you still feel like shit and aren't waking up with a raging hard on every morning. I get my 4 month bloodwork done next week and I will be interested to see what it says, but I'm more interested in how I feel and how I look. I am literally watching my body change every week. Do whatever you want to do, but I didn't treat a number with my testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), I treated the problem and with Chip's help I got it fixed.

 

[JOWS6]

I had a thyroid panel done at it appeared ok. This was from Feb 2011.

TSH - 1.29 (0.35-5.50)
Free T4 - 1.0 (0.7-1.7)
Total T3 - 118 (60-181)

Thanks for the input, I will look into other areas that might need addressing. CJ, I am unclear as to how the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) works in detail. Are you suggesting that since I take the .5mg's EOD, the days I don't take the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) that my testosterone is level is crashing down to subpar levels hence the reason for the way I'm feeling?

The only other thing I want to address is the timing of the test. Since most of my classes began later at noon, I used to go to sleep around 3 AM studying or goofing off and waking up around 11ish. That was my biological clock. My appointment was at 10am and I'm thinking the data is skewed because it took a sample of my blood at it's peak. What if I were to have taken it a 'lil later, maybe say around 1PM, would my levels still hover around 600?

 

[riprockwell]

I'll PM you bro. You did not follow through with the prescriptions and you are solo on an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) with no test and with a somewhat elevated SHBG. That is why you feel like shit still. Nothing that can't be fixed. I'm not saying you have to go on test per se. If indeed this Aromatase inhibitor (AI) is really elevating your testosterone you don't want to be dependent on something that crashes your estrogen to elevate your testosterone if you are hanging around the 300 levels all the other time. Getting healthy is about keeping your levels optimal all the time, not rapidly fluctuating with high estrogen or low testosterone. I'm not the doctor obviously but these things stand out to me just my 2 cents from my personal experience. If you do what the doctor tells you and read my PM you cannot not feel better. Then gradually week by week on the RIGHT protocol from the doctor, not from you, you will feel 110%. Testosterone does elevate thyroid binding globulin. I just take 1 armor a day and it gives me extra energy without a doubt (not that I need it or any woman in my life thinks I need it). You aren't on test though obviously.

Good advice CJW. I myself take a Porcine thyroid med (like armour, both T4 & T3). It is very important to balance all the hormones out. The testosterone will work, but you might have to tweak a few other things. For me, I had to tweak my thyroid and my cortisol metabolism. JOWS6, have you tested your cortisol?? The most accurate test for that is a saliva test. I would be curious to see where your cortisol level is at. I will tell you if you keep altering your doses, it will continue to throw off your endocrine system.

 

[JOWS6]

Honestly, I hear a lot of guys talking about numbers this and numbers that. This is in the normal range and this is in the upper range. Who gives a fuck! Everybody is different. Your body processes medication differently than anyone else. What's a normal range for someone else may not be normal for you. You may as well take those numbers on the chart and stick them up your ass and set fire to it. I don't care if you're numbers for test show you are in a normal range. Who fucking cares what the numbers are if you still feel like shit and aren't waking up with a raging hard on every morning. I get my 4 month bloodwork done next week and I will be interested to see what it says, but I'm more interested in how I feel and how I look. I am literally watching my body change every week. Do whatever you want to do, but I didn't treat a number with my testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), I treated the problem and with Chip's help I got it fixed.

I know, I hear ya. I jus' was surprised at the values as I thought my levels would have been much lower given the way I felt. It's jus' that I am leery of shutting down my natural production of testosterone if I don't have to. Also, I am jus' think of the general population's testosterone values. I feel as if most guys my age (25) would have a test value of around 600-800 but with normal libidos.

Also, I do want to add that I do have nocturnal erections and wake up frequently with hard-ons though. Even before the use of the AI.

 

[JOWS6]

Good advice CJW. I myself take a Porcine thyroid med (like armour, both T4 & T3). It is very important to balance all the hormones out. The testosterone will work, but you might have to tweak a few other things. For me, I had to tweak my thyroid and my cortisol metabolism. JOWS6, have you tested your cortisol?? The most accurate test for that is a saliva test. I would be curious to see where your cortisol level is at. I will tell you if you keep altering your doses, it will continue to throw off your endocrine system.

No, I haven't tested my cortisol. I'll be sure to add that to the list of things to check.

 

[riprockwell]

No, I haven't tested my cortisol. I'll be sure to add that to the list of things to check.

Good. The reason why I say this is because the adrenal glands produce around 65% of your bodies testosterone. If you have stressed adrenals, you could either have high cortisol or low cortisol levels. If they are not balanced, it can be bad. In the meantime to help your condition and overall well being, you should change up your diet if you haven't already. To straighten out my hormones, I switched to a Paleo/Mediterranean diet. Next balance your blood sugar levels by eating every 2-3 hours. Drop caffeine, sugar, and any artificial sweetners. It is amazing the difference just a diet can make when you are focused on balancing your hormones.

Also test your DHEA levels as that can give an indication regarding adrenal fatigue, etc.

 

[JOWS6]

Update:

I had undergone a sleep study on June 1st to rule out sleep apnea. The technician said she couldn't disclose information until the doctor reviews my results but did say I stopped breathing a few times during the night. I guess I have sleep apnea. I have an appointment on the 14th to discuss my results with the doctor.

 

[CHIP WADOWSKI]

Again, i'll use my kid brother as an example..... 28 y/o. 5'8 1/2", 170, 5% bf. Never touched a hormone of any type in his life. Total test: 1590. Range 262-1593.

Shouldn't he weigh about 240lbs and be on stage, given the fact that his "numbers" are what they are?

You are having problems jwos6 because you are not following the program and your body is battling against itself to get to the perfect anabolic state. My bro is dead on in his sweet spot, fortunately for him without any type of therapy. This is the spot that we all try to get to and maintain by getting "dialed in" by proper administration of our protocols. How is your diet? How hard are you training? Hrt/trt alone will not get you to that perfect anabolic state. It is merely a catalyst to put your body in a balanced state for you to take the next step.

 

[mlc31]

Again, i'll use my kid brother as an example..... 28 y/o. 5'8 1/2", 170, 5% bf. Never touched a hormone of any type in his life. Total test: 1590. Range 262-1593.

Shouldn't he weigh about 240lbs and be on stage, given the fact that his "numbers" are what they are?

You are having problems jwos6 because you are not following the program and your body is battling against itself to get to the perfect anabolic state. My bro is dead on in his sweet spot, fortunately for him without any type of therapy. This is the spot that we all try to get to and maintain by getting "dialed in" by proper administration of our protocols. How is your diet? How hard are you training? Hrt/trt alone will not get you to that perfect anabolic state. It is merely a catalyst to put your body in a balanced state for you to take the next step.

The medication is simply 1 piece of the puzzle. There's a reason Chip and the people who work for/with him are in this field and enjoying the kind of success they are: THEY KNOW MORE ABOUT IT THAN ANY OF US DO! Chip has forgotten more about HRT/TRT than all of us on this board would ever know combined. The protocols are all designed for our individual needs and goals. With Chip and the doctor's starting point for my protocol I jumped in and got to work. Over time I adjusted it based on how I was feeling and how my body was reacting. I now believe I pretty much have it dialed in. Wasn't easy and it was a lot of trial and error. But I put the work in and you need to do the same. Since I started with Chip I've lost 32lbs of fat and 8" off of my waist. Couldn't have done it without Maximus and a protocol designed specifically for me.

 

[cjw2021]

Stick to the protocol and monitor your SHBG and you'd have no problems. A solo Aromatase inhibitor (AI) is just asking for trouble. Just about everyone and their mother is told they have sleep apnea in my experience. You've got the best docs and you didn't give them a chance. You have the info and resources. If the 2000$ sleep apnea machine doesn't work for you, hop back on the protocol and you will feel great with a small amount of time, especially if SHBG is kept down. I hate to see you not get better bro and I am genuinely concerned, but do what you need to do first I guess. 1 week on any protocol is not long enough to make a decision.

 

[mlc31]

Best thing for sleep apnea? Lose weight. Best way to lose weight? Stick to the Maximus protocol and get to work in the gym and the kitchen.

 

[Packgus]

best thing for sleep apnea? Lose weight. Best way to lose weight? Stick to the maximus protocol and get to work in the gym and the kitchen.

exactly!

 

[Nordic11]

As a word of caution, don't dismiss sleep apnea lightly. Untreated, OSA can result in stroke or even death. Increasing testosterone levels can quickly make OSA worse. Anyone with OSA should work closely with their pulmonologist when starting HRT.

 

[JOWS6]

Best thing for sleep apnea? Lose weight. Best way to lose weight? Stick to the Maximus protocol and get to work in the gym and the kitchen.

Not if it's Central Sleep Apnea as opposed to Obstructive SA. In either case, testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) exacerbates sleep apnea conditions so I think it's smarter to treat the sleep apnea by conventional ways instead of treating it through TRT.

 

[JOWS6]

Stick to the protocol and monitor your SHBG and you'd have no problems. A solo Aromatase inhibitor (AI) is just asking for trouble. Just about everyone and their mother is told they have sleep apnea in my experience. You've got the best docs and you didn't give them a chance. You have the info and resources. If the 2000$ sleep apnea machine doesn't work for you, hop back on the protocol and you will feel great with a small amount of time, especially if SHBG is kept down. I hate to see you not get better bro and I am genuinely concerned, but do what you need to do first I guess. 1 week on any protocol is not long enough to make a decision.

We'll see how the sleep machine thingey works. Good talkin' with you the other day, I'll text you sometime and let you know what's going on.

Again, i'll use my kid brother as an example..... 28 y/o. 5'8 1/2", 170, 5% bf. Never touched a hormone of any type in his life. Total test: 1590. Range 262-1593.

Shouldn't he weigh about 240lbs and be on stage, given the fact that his "numbers" are what they are?

You are having problems jwos6 because you are not following the program and your body is battling against itself to get to the perfect anabolic state. My bro is dead on in his sweet spot, fortunately for him without any type of therapy. This is the spot that we all try to get to and maintain by getting "dialed in" by proper administration of our protocols. How is your diet? How hard are you training? Hrt/trt alone will not get you to that perfect anabolic state. It is merely a catalyst to put your body in a balanced state for you to take the next step.

I was exercising and eating right and lost about 13 pounds in 6 weeks. I agree that diet and exercise is important and nobody should assume testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) alone will be the best thing for someone but sleep is equally important in that picture. My plan is to treat the apnea and see where I stand from there.

The medication is simply 1 piece of the puzzle. There's a reason Chip and the people who work for/with him are in this field and enjoying the kind of success they are: THEY KNOW MORE ABOUT IT THAN ANY OF US DO! Chip has forgotten more about HRT/TRT than all of us on this board would ever know combined. The protocols are all designed for our individual needs and goals. With Chip and the doctor's starting point for my protocol I jumped in and got to work. Over time I adjusted it based on how I was feeling and how my body was reacting. I now believe I pretty much have it dialed in. Wasn't easy and it was a lot of trial and error. But I put the work in and you need to do the same. Since I started with Chip I've lost 32lbs of fat and 8" off of my waist. Couldn't have done it without Maximus and a protocol designed specifically for me.

Damn 32 pounds! I hope the fat drips off of me that fast if/when I get back on a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) protocol.

As a word of caution, don't dismiss sleep apnea lightly. Untreated, OSA can result in stroke or even death. Increasing testosterone levels can quickly make OSA worse. Anyone with OSA should work closely with their pulmonologist when starting HRT.

Yep, it's how Reggie White of the Packers died. The doctor hasn't told me if I suffer from OSA or CSA and hasn't told me how severe it is. I have to wait until the 14th for my follow-up.

Thanks guys for the support!