interesting read on eating for muscle gains

tyhigs

New member
http://www.p!@#$%^&*(.com/issues/1997/08aug/muscle.htm.


Nutrition for Muscle Builders
Susan M. Kleiner, PhD, RD
THE PHYSICIAN AND SPORTSMEDICINE - VOL 25 - NO. 8 - AUGUST 97



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Athletes used to think that if you wanted to bulk up your muscles, you just ate a lot of calories. Bodybuilders were notorious for eating several pounds of meat and up to a dozen raw egg yolks daily. Today we know not only that high-fat, high-protein diets are unhealthy, but that they don't promote lean tissue growth. The diet that will give you the greatest increase in lean body mass without causing a lot of fat gain is still high in calories--but the recommendations about where these calories should come from have changed a lot.


Muscle-Building Basics
Building muscle requires tremendous energy, both to do the muscle-building exercise and to build the tissue itself. One study (Gail Butterfield, PhD, personal communication, January 1997) showed that each day strength-trained athletes needed about 20 calories per pound of body weight (44 calories [kcal] per kilogram [kg]) just to maintain their muscle mass--about 2,800 calories per day for a 140-pound person, 4,000 for a 200-pound person (table 1). Apparently even more--25 to 30 calories per pound of body weight (54 to 66 kcal/kg) per day--is required to build muscle (1,2).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Table 1. Daily Calorie, Carbohydrate, Protein, and Fat Intake for Strength Training: Sample Recommendations


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Body Weight (Pounds) Calories per Day Calories From Carbohydrate Calories From Protein Calories From Fat

140 2,800 2,000 360-460 340-440

200 4,000 2,800 510-660 540-690


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Carbohydrate. Getting enough calories is important, but so is getting the right kind of calories. Carbohydrate, stored in the body as glycogen, is the predominant energy source for muscle-building exercise. The harder and longer you work out, the more glycogen your muscles require. Once your muscles are depleted of glycogen, you have no more energy to continue your workout.

There are different ways to figure out your carbohydrate needs, but the bottom line is that with at least 500 to 600 grams of carbohydrate per day, your muscles will stay packed with glycogen. One method is to base your intake on 3.6 grams per pound of body weight (8 g/kg). At 4 calories per gram of carbohydrate, this means about 504 grams per day or about 2,000 carbohydrate calories for a 140-pound person, and 720 grams or 2,900 carbohydrate calories for a 200-pound person.

A second strategy for computing your carbohydrate needs is based on a percentage of total calories. When total energy intake is below 4,000 calories a day, getting 70% of those calories from carbohydrates will ensure the muscle power and endurance required to strength train. With a diet above 4,000 total calories a day, a lower percentage of calories can be obtained from carbohydrates, as long as you take in at least 500 to 600 grams of carbohydrate.

Protein. At this point you might be wondering, "What about protein?" Protein is the basic building material for muscle tissue, and strength trainers need to consume more than the rest of us. In the same study that looked at energy needs, researchers found that during weight lifting, those who ate enough calories required about 0.6 grams of protein per pound of body weight (1.2 to 1.3 g/kg) daily to maintain muscle mass. If the intensity of the exercise was increased to build muscle, the daily requirement went up to almost 0.7 grams per pound (1.5 g/kg).

Based on a wide review of scientific data (3), current daily protein recommendations for serious strength trainers are about 0.6 to 0.8 grams per pound (1.4 to 1.8 g/kg). This equals 90 to 115 grams of protein per day for the 140-pound strength trainer and, 128 to 164 grams for the 200-pounder.

Fat. Once you've determined your carbohydrate and protein needs, all the leftover calories--less than 30% of total calories--can come from fat. To keep your heart healthy, make sure that most of your fat calories are from unsaturated fats.


Water Needs
Next on the list of important nutrients is water. Good hydration is just as essential for strength training as it is for endurance training. Your body requires at least eight 8-ounce cups of caffeine-free, nonalcoholic fluids every day. You need to drink even more to replace fluids that are lost during exercise.

Make sure you go into your workouts well hydrated by drinking 2 cups of fluid 2 hours before exercise. During exercise, drink 4 to 8 ounces every 15 to 20 minutes. After exercise, replace any further fluid losses with 16 ounces of fluids.

Another approach is to weigh yourself before and after exercise: Any weight lost is fluid. Replace every pound lost with at least 16 ounces of fluid.


Supplement Sense
Most supplements that are supposed to help build muscle don't work. But some, such as creatine, fluid and electrolyte replacers, carbohydrate supplements, and liquid meal replacers may offer some benefits to strength training athletes.

Creatine. In the past several years, creatine has gained attention among athletes because it has the potential, when combined with a good diet and strength training program, to produce slightly more power during workouts. In addition, loading creatine into the muscles may help speed up muscle gain.

Meat is the best dietary source of creatine, and vegetarians generally have lower muscle creatine concentrations than meat-eaters. People at the lower end of the normal range for muscle creatine are the most likely to benefit from supplementation.

The usual dosage for creatine loading is 5 grams of creatine monohydrate four times per day for 5 days. A maintenance dose of 2 grams per day can follow. Taking more than the usual dosage of creatine offers no added benefit. Also, users should be aware that creatine and other popular supplements are subject to little government regulation, so there is no guarantee that they are pure.

Sports drinks. Fluid and electrolyte replacers are beneficial if exercise lasts longer than 1 hour. Carbohydrate supplements can be useful to help fit adequate carbohydrates into a busy day. Additionally, one study (4) indicated that by taking creatine with 17 ounces of liquid carbohydrate supplement, muscle creatine concentrations can be boosted by up to 60%.

Consuming a meal-replacement beverage just after muscle-building exercise may be a convenient way to help stimulate muscle growth. Protein and carbohydrates trigger the release of insulin and growth hormone, which are integrally involved in muscle growth. Meal replacement beverages are also great for adding well-balanced calories when you just don't have the time to eat a meal.


Don't Forget Sweat
Even though supplement purveyors promise easy results, gaining muscle takes determination, a good diet, and lots of sweat. Stick to it, and you'll be pleased with your results.

References
Manore MM, Thompson J, Russo M: Diet and exercise strategies of a world-class bodybuilder. Int J Sport Nutr 1993;3(1):76-86
Kleiner SM, Calabrese LH, Fiedler KM, et al: Dietary influences on cardiovascular disease risk in anabolic steroid-using and nonusing bodybuilders. J Am Coll Nutr 1989;8(2):109-119
Lemon PW: Do athletes need more dietary protein and amino acids? Int J Sport Nutr 1995;5(suppl):S39-S61
Green AL, Hultman E, Macdonald IA, et al: Carbohydrate ingestion augments skeletal muscle creatine accumulation during creatine supplementation in humans. Am J Physiol 1996;271(5 pt 1):E821-E826
 
Last edited by a moderator:
tyhigs said:

Muscle-Building Basics
Building muscle requires tremendous energy, both to do the muscle-building exercise and to build the tissue itself. One study (Gail Butterfield, PhD, personal communication, January 1997) showed that each day strength-trained athletes needed about 20 calories per pound of body weight (44 calories [kcal] per kilogram [kg]) just to maintain their muscle mass--about 2,800 calories per day for a 140-pound person, 4,000 for a 200-pound person (table 1). Apparently even more--25 to 30 calories per pound of body weight (54 to 66 kcal/kg) per day--is required to build muscle (1,2).

I think these numbers are a little high. I am 255-260# and I can put on muscle eating less than 6500 Cals. I would say maintenance is around 15 C/lb and to gain weight 20C/lb should be enough.
 
yeah I think it is damn near impossible to eat that many calories, especially without becoming a 355lbs fat ass. lol
 
I am a long time lurker here, but never registered an account until reading this article. And I hate to be 'that guy' but I registered just so I could express how horrible consuming this many calories from carbohydrates sounds. Even if a 100% of those calories came from pure brown rice, any natural athlete following these guidelines has purchased themselves a one way ticket to fat city. Guys even guys who are on gear would get fat, and putting a 140 lbs person on gear is almost as ridiculous as eating like this. I have to admit I did not read the entire article, because I stopped reading at this ludacris. But could you explain to me how this could even begin to be good as far as obtaining an aesthetically pleasing physic is concerned?
 
Total bs. If you want to put on muscle you need protein not carbs.Look at the dates in the foot notes. It's old an out dated.
 
Last edited:
I am a long time lurker here, but never registered an account until reading this article. And I hate to be 'that guy' but I registered just so I could express how horrible consuming this many calories from carbohydrates sounds. Even if a 100% of those calories came from pure brown rice, any natural athlete following these guidelines has purchased themselves a one way ticket to fat city. Guys even guys who are on gear would get fat, and putting a 140 lbs person on gear is almost as ridiculous as eating like this. I have to admit I did not read the entire article, because I stopped reading at this ludacris. But could you explain to me how this could even begin to be good as far as obtaining an aesthetically pleasing physic is concerned?

You've posted in an 11yr old thread dude, the original posters are no longer around.

In any case, there's nothing to explain since the carbs your talking about are required to totally replenish glycogen stores BUT you dont need to totally replenish glycogen stores to build muscle nor do you need to totally replenish them over the course of 1 day.

Basicaly, the article is wrong so ignore it :)
 
Last edited:
Whey protein isolate is the best thing to replenish glycogen stores.

Disagree.

Its useful for guys on cycle due to the increased protein synthesis, but for natties protein wont help replenish glycogen stores.
Starchy carbs at 1.5-3g/lbm depending on activity level/training intesity is the winner for glycogen replenishment.
 
Disagree.

Its useful for guys on cycle due to the increased protein synthesis, but for natties protein wont help replenish glycogen stores.
Starchy carbs at 1.5-3g/lbm depending on activity level/training intesity is the winner for glycogen replenishment.

You Sir Are wrong Whey is absorbed in the lining of the stomach and is rapidly converted into glycogen. Isolate is the king when it comes to supplements. There is a 15 minutes window post work out when the body is anabolic if you are able to get whey protein isolate in the body you can replenish to 76% of the glycogen just used working out. Add Insulin and 2 meals and the growth is sick.
 
You Sir Are wrong Whey is absorbed in the lining of the stomach and is rapidly converted into glycogen. Isolate is the king when it comes to supplements. There is a 15 minutes window post work out when the body is anabolic if you are able to get whey protein isolate in the body you can replenish to 76% of the glycogen just used working out. Add Insulin and 2 meals and the growth is sick.

Except to fully replenish you would need around 700-800g of protein if your bulking on around 3,000 cals - goodluck with that.
Plus the fact that carbs are protein sparing, you leave the protein to do its job (protein synthesis & repair) and have carbs for glycogen and energy.
Not to mention protein doesn't have a beneficial impact on thyroid, insulin, free test or overall muscle energy state (lowered ampk), unlike carbs.

Protein doesn't beat carbs for glycogen replenishment sir, otherwise low carb/keto bulking would be the ideal route (and it actually sucks for building muscle).
Of course if your adding slin & a bunch of other things then its a different story - but in a natural state protein is a very poor choice for glycogen replenishment.
 
for those of you who dont know DPR has an extensive history in nutrition... i take everything he says into consideration..

rip, great posts as well
 
Except to fully replenish you would need around 700-800g of protein if your bulking on around 3,000 cals - goodluck with that.
Plus the fact that carbs are protein sparing, you leave the protein to do its job (protein synthesis & repair) and have carbs for glycogen and energy.
Not to mention protein doesn't have a beneficial impact on thyroid, insulin, free test or overall muscle energy state (lowered ampk), unlike carbs.

Protein doesn't beat carbs for glycogen replenishment sir, otherwise low carb/keto bulking would be the ideal route (and it actually sucks for building muscle).
Of course if your adding slin & a bunch of other things then its a different story - but in a natural state protein is a very poor choice for glycogen replenishment.

Your numbers are off by x10 a shake of 70-80 grams does the job going higher than that is too much for the kidneys. You also no expending that much glycogen working out. You basing the posts work out needs on total nutrition for the whole day.
 
Would hydrolyzed whey protein work better than whey isolate for replenishing glycogen DPR? Or is the whey isolate protein better than the hydrolyzed whey protein?
 
Your numbers are off by x10 a shake of 70-80 grams does the job going higher than that is too much for the kidneys. You also no expending that much glycogen working out. You basing the posts work out needs on total nutrition for the whole day.

I was illustrating the difference between trying to replenish glycogen through protein vs carbs, gram for gram protein is less effective than starch.
You also have to remember that the more protein utilized for glycogen replenishment, less gets directed towards protein synthesis & muscle repair.

Your focusing more towards workout nutrition while I'm considering the whole picture.
It makes no sense increasing protein intake simply to replenish muscle glycogen when carbs will do the same thing along with the other benefits I highlighted in my previous post.

My final point would be guys on keto caloric deficits or trying to maintain through low carv diets always, eventually becoming depleted despite high protein intake (1.5-2g/lbm).
If the body could simply utilize protein to replenish muscle glycogen aswell, then no one eating at maintenance with low carbs should ever be depleted - yet we all know this isn't the case.
I could go into the biology of all this, but I fear I'm rambling enough already :)
 
Last edited:
for a 200# man, I don't believe they are advocating 6000 calories, but rather 4000 divided into 2800 from carbs, 5-600 from protein, 5-700 from fat - Total 400
 
Back
Top