judo V.S. Kickboxing in MMA

[blinnbuc21]

So witch art skill do you guys/girls think is more benaficial for MMA Judo or Kickboxing.

I know that both play a big part in the sport of MMA but, witch one who y'all say plays the biggest part?
the reason Iam asking is b/c i only have enough money right now to take one of these classes. I do plan on however taking both; just not at the same time. And I do take MMA classes and train about 2-3 times a day.

 

[CaptainAwesome]

fuck judo.

 

[Eze]

BJJ
Maui Thai
Wrestling

I would do these 3

 

[70w30]

fuck judo.

fuck jew

 

[DLC68]

There is no better art; that I've learned over the last 6+ years of training. It will always come down to the person training and the Instructors training you.

I've had the opportunity of training at a school that was Taekwondo and BJJ, a school that was Muay Thai, BJJ and MMA, a BJJ school and a Judo school; plus wrestling throughout Junior/High School. The first two have MMA fighting teams and I have seen people excel under these arts and some that did not. I personally believe a good fighter is something already present in a person and through good instruction can somebody grow and excel. I also believe that people can gain great skill but unless they have that fighter's instinct then they won't excel.

What you should look at is this; are the schools geared towards MMA? If a school is not then it won't be beneficial for MMA. If MMA is your ultimate goal then you need to look for a school that is geared towards this.

What you are going to find is traditional schools will teach traditional programs. You will learn a lot of good techniques/skills however the programs will also have many training methods that you will not require for MMA. You will also find that it will take years to advance in those schools due to all of the program they teach. If you want to learn to fight then you need to find a school that teaches that and only that.

You mention you are already training MMA so now the question is, what are your weak points? What type of fighter are you; stand-up or groundwork. Either choice you make you still need to train all aspects of the game but this may give you a good indication of where to put your training time and money to.

From my training experiences and for what I've found to personally works for me; Muay Thai and BJJ.

 

[JayC]

If its just "kick boxing", I'd definetly go with Judo... now if its Mui Thai, do that first. Judo is ideal for MMA but not the best in my opinion. My list would be similar to Easto's..

Ideal MMA bases:
Wrestling (collegiate and Greco-Roman)
BJJ
Mui Thai
Boxing

Ok bases for MMA:
Judo
Pancrase/Sambo
Kick Boxing
classic jui jitsu

Poor bases for MMA:
Taekwondo
Karate (point spar styles)
street fighting/brawling

 

[DLC68]

I don't totally agree with your assessment JayC; again it comes down to the instruction received. Let me explain because I think you are on the right track though.

Many good fighters had backgrounds in the arts you have listed as poor basis; GSP = Karate, David Loiseau; Ivan Salavary, Stephen Bonnar = Taekwondo plus many others for both. Now I will admit the "Taekwondo" most people are familiar with such as the Olympic Style I will have to agree but not all Taekwondo is taught that way though it is the norm. Taekwondo is one of the largest growing martial arts out there and like many other martial arts falls within the McDojo arts and those most definitely do not have a good basis for MMA; and a lot for just being a martial art. However there are a small amount of schools that would be and I used to train at one. Understanding Taekwondo (TKD) has to be modified in order to be effective but much of what Taekwondo was before it was named as such; it wasn't as watered down as we know it.

So again with good instruction any art can be an effective art but those you have listed are not usually the norm.

 

[dirkdiggler9969]

I don't totally agree with your assessment JayC; again it comes down to the instruction received. Let me explain because I think you are on the right track though.

Many good fighters had backgrounds in the arts you have listed as poor basis; GSP = Karate, David Loiseau; Ivan Salavary, Stephen Bonnar = Taekwondo plus many others for both. Now I will admit the "Taekwondo" most people are familiar with such as the Olympic Style I will have to agree but not all Taekwondo is taught that way though it is the norm. Taekwondo is one of the largest growing martial arts out there and like many other martial arts falls within the McDojo arts and those most definitely do not have a good basis for MMA; and a lot for just being a martial art. However there are a small amount of schools that would be and I used to train at one. Understanding Taekwondo (TKD) has to be modified in order to be effective but much of what Taekwondo was before it was named as such; it wasn't as watered down as we know it.

So again with good instruction any art can be an effective art but those you have listed are not usually the norm.

Wow. Wrong in so many ways. TKD sucks. I have been training in wrestling for 12 years, BJJ and Muay Thai for 5 years. In that time I trained with and sparred with a lot of TKD guys and it just doesn't add up to real world success. If I had a dollar for every TKD guy I either punched in the mouth or took to the ground after they tried a spinning roundhouse or back fist I'd buy a cycle with it.

Also, GSP trains with the Canadian Olympic Wrestling team and recieved his blackbelt in BJJ this year. He mauled Koscheck who is a 4-time Division 1 NCAA All-American & 1-time NCAA wrestling champion. GSP is a complete fighter. His original backround was in Kyokushin Karate, so he's the only exception if you want to count that as his backround.

Bonnar was a Golden Gloves boxer and trained extensively with Carlson Gracie family and 7-11 of his wins are by submission.

Salaverry is a journeyman fighter and the only guy he beat that you've heard off is Fucking Joe Riggs, who is a brawling bum.

Loiseau is a fighter who lives and dies by his sharp elbows like Matt Hughes lives and died by his wrestling ability. He will never be in contention again and isn't a good example of a complete fighter.

 

[JayC]

Thanks Dirk.. saved me the typing time

 

[DLC68]

Dirk, as I said the majority of TKD people out there I 100% agree. Anybody with good TKD "fighting" skills for one does not do fancy kicks; that is for Olympic sparring that I for one do not buy into and dislike ... as you do as well as others. Should in a fight something present itself on a silver plate you can rest assure that a heel kick or back kick would be used; as GSP, Loiseau and Salavary have used to win matches. First and foremost keep your feet on the ground and only use when needed. Hands are the first and foremost weapon to use and good TKD (though rare) will teach that.

Like many martial arts they have holes and good Instructors will fill those holes. The 6+ years I did TKD also was 4+ years of BJJ. I tried BJJ on its own as well as Judo for a short term but now Muay Thai and BJJ are what my focus is. Thankfully with good basics the transition was easier then for most because those fancy kicks and stuff were not in my repertoire; just good solid basic skills.

On a whole I agree; TKD sucks but don't put that label on all TKD. TKD already has a black eye from all of the crap that is out there but believe me there are some gems out there. Obviously you have never had the opportunity of meeting such people; which is your loss.

Just as a note; good TKD from Korea was blended with Hapkido that taught ground skills ... and where my former Instructors basics came from. Add that with JJJ, BJJ and MMA the program taught perhaps was not "true" TKD but that was its base art. The same with the fighters I noted, and I'm sure there are others. They started some where and built upon those skills. And I will stand by what I said earlier, the person training and the Instructor training them will make the world of difference before a particular art will.