L-CARNITINE , creatine and AAS?

[fitguy22]

what are your thoughts/experience on using L-CARNITINE while in a cycle? or and creatine?

 

[STAUNCHED427]

On or off cycle, doesn't matter IMO... I use creatine regardless, occasionally taking a month off here and there.

Just got some Creatine HCl and giving that a shot over the standard monohydrate, not expecting miracles and I got it for free so we will see how it goes.

AAS will help increase/retain creatine as far as I know, I know anavar specifically will.

 

[fitguy22]

have you ever tried carnitine? it helps absorb fat , i was thinking if a person was on a bulk cycle they could add good weight but also cut out fat?

 

[STAUNCHED427]

I haven't tried L-Carnitine but I have tried Acetly-Carintine AKA ALCAR, however I am one of those people that is prone to depression from increased choline levels/fish oil (yes, fish oil makes me madly depressed/anxious after a few days) so can't really comment on it even though according to studies and some people who try it, it works as a good mood enhancer. A lot of people say ALCAR is good for a bit of an extra kick in the cognitive department, a shame, wish I could use it!

And yes ALCAR in particular has shown to be effective at increasing mitochondria efficiency at utilizing fats so yes I would give it a shot if you've got it, what's the worst that can happen, you drop a little fat? Don't expect drastic results though. It's something that wouldn't hurt to have in situations like fasted morning cardio/cutting phase supplements.

 

[Colbert]

L-carnitine didn't do shit for me and Datbtrue has a great article on it. It's actually truly worth it only if you pin it.

I use creatine all the time on or off cycle. Doesn't matter.

 

[fitguy22]

I haven't tried L-Carnitine but I have tried Acetly-Carintine AKA ALCAR, however I am one of those people that is prone to depression from increased choline levels/fish oil (yes, fish oil makes me madly depressed/anxious after a few days) so can't really comment on it even though according to studies and some people who try it, it works as a good mood enhancer. A lot of people say ALCAR is good for a bit of an extra kick in the cognitive department, a shame, wish I could use it!

And yes ALCAR in particular has shown to be effective at increasing mitochondria efficiency at utilizing fats so yes I would give it a shot if you've got it, what's the worst that can happen, you drop a little fat? Don't expect drastic results though. It's something that wouldn't hurt to have in situations like fasted morning cardio/cutting phase supplements.

thanks a lot bro, I'm def going to give ALCAR a try =)

 

[STAUNCHED427]

L-carnitine didn't do shit for me and Datbtrue has a great article on it. It's actually truly worth it only if you pin it.

I use creatine all the time on or off cycle. Doesn't matter.

Yeah I have read multiple times L-Carnitine doesn't make it into the blood (or very small concentrations) which is why ALCAR is superior.

thanks a lot bro, I'm def going to give ALCAR a try =)

Let us know how it works for you dude!

 

[Black Beard]

Creatine all day every day. Year round supplement. You cant go wrong with it, cycle or no cycle. Old man, woman or child, creatine can benefit everyone. I hear carnitine is great and im sure its benefits wouldnt stop on cycle. I'm like staunched, i hate fish oil. Makes me depressed too. Idk about choline, i eat a lot of eggs, but fish oil....hate it

 

[STAUNCHED427]

Yep to add to my post, the only reason I go off creatine is because I've ran out which I don't plan on letting happening again. It's cheap and what's the worst that can happen, you get a little bigger/stronger?

I eat a lot of egg whites too which is supposedly choc full of choline but it never affects my mood, fish oil does, a few days after taking and I'm a wreck. It isn't placebo as I've tried multiple times, I thought I was mad when I could only put it down to fish oil until I looked it up and found some people do get depressed/anxious from it. Sucks, because I wish I could use it!

 

[Fat bastard]

which creatine supplement do u recommend the best?

 

[fitguy22]

iv tried kre-alkyline its alright but jack3d is the stuff that got me the real pumps and strength. i think its banned now and they came out with another product, I'm currently in china so i can get the old banned jack3d.

 

[STAUNCHED427]

which creatine supplement do u recommend the best?

That's an argumentive topic because there are so many different forms of creatine with different claims of bioavailibility etc, you can't go wrong with Creatine Monohydrate, it was the first form made and is what is used in most if not all studies done on creatine. It works, is cheap and proven to be effective.

Creatine HCl looks promising, is it worth the extra $$$ over monohydrate? Maybe, maybe not. I got a tub for free so I certainly won't say no and give it a spin.

 

[Black Beard]

You can't go wrong with creatine monohydrate, and the best quality is "creapure" it's pharmaceutical grade creatine manufactured in germany. It's the highest standard of creatine. A lot of products contain it. Two that i've used are Optimum nutrition Creatine and Allmax creatine. Right now i'm using allmax and it's the best i've used so far. I've used inferior, cheap, probably chinese creatine (GNC brand) It tasted bad whilst creapure virtually has no flavor, and i felt more bloat and less strength gains. I didn't even finish the bottle, gave it to my barber. Jack3d is/was a great pre-workout, i never used it, but a lot of trusted fitness people said it was amazing. I remember they banned one of the ingredients, 1,3 Dimethylamylamine(that's like the stuff walter white used to make meth in breaking bad). I guess it was like meth, haha but that stuff was POWERFUL and it also contained beta-alanine, very good stuff. I prefer standalone supplements so if i wanted creatine i would opt for a pure creatine monohydrate product. You could mix it into oatmeal, coffee, whatever you want. If i really like the jack3d "stack" i could also buy the bulk ingredients from a trust bulk supplier and take them seperately, cheaper and purer that way usually. All i know is, monohydrate does the job and it does it well. Honestly, as long as your muscles are fully saturated with creatine, i doubt the form matters. It all turns into phosphocreatine anyways. There is a lot of hype around different forms, i can't tell you from personal experience if they are better, but you CAN'T go wrong with monohydrate. I know staunched elaborated that he got his for free, so he was trying to say fuck it, even if this shit is over-hyped at least i didnt pay for it. From what i know, most creatine forms other than monohydrate aren't really special and don't have the same price to performance ratio that creatine monohydrate does.


Staunched: Fuck the fish oil. The extra epa can decrease testicular testosterone anyways. We don't need it, i tried it too and it's definitely not placebo

 

[DreDay187]

have you ever tried carnitine? it helps absorb fat , i was thinking if a person was on a bulk cycle they could add good weight but also cut out fat?

L-carnitine will only help with fat if you are deficient in it from the beginning. It's not a magical nutrient.

 

[CageBreed]

I use carnitine all year around, helps with fat and cleans anabolic receptors.

I like L-carnitine tartrate

 

[STAUNCHED427]

Yes ALCAR has been proven to have a lot of benefits, I believe it has been shown to up-regulate AR?

 

[DreDay187]

That's an argumentive topic because there are so many different forms of creatine with different claims of bioavailibility etc, you can't go wrong with Creatine Monohydrate, it was the first form made and is what is used in most if not all studies done on creatine. It works, is cheap and proven to be effective.

Creatine HCl looks promising, is it worth the extra $$$ over monohydrate? Maybe, maybe not. I got a tub for free so I certainly won't say no and give it a spin.

When you think about it logically, the claims made about different forms of creatine are all distracting from the most important fact; namely that they're all irrelevant. Speed of absorption, bioavailability, etc etc etc are stupid selling points bc good ole cheap and effective creatine monohydrate will FULLY saturate creatine phosphate stores in skeletal muscle at a dose of 3-5g daily after a month give or take.

Why does one need a higher bioavailability when max absorption happens with a 'lesser bioavailable' form of creatine? Why does it matter if this form of creatine is absorbed 3x as fast than monohydrate if you're fully saturated at all times of the day?

You're absolutely correct about monohydrate. Most of the studies on creatine efficacy were done on mono. The 'newer' studies touting newer versions are mainly piggybacking off the monohydrate studies (claiming the same benefits of mono), using animal studies to back newer/better claims, and using misleading statistics to get us to buy a more expensive version of something that's incredibly cheap. The one thing I will say is some have experienced less bloat if you will with other versions so that's one consideration.

A small percentage of the population (from 10-15% I think) are creatine non-responders and won't get any benefit from creatine no matter which version or brand they get.

I use carnitine all year around, helps with fat and cleans anabolic receptors.

I like L-carnitine tartrate

No it doesn't (unless you're deficient in it to begin with) and androgen receptors don't get dirty so they don't need cleaning. Androgen receptors don't down-regulate so the 'clean' really isn't doing anything. Believe it or not in the presence of androgens the AR receptor is actually UP-regulated. ANDROGEN receptors bind with androgen ligands which activates the receptors Then after the transcription process is over they turn over and are both free to bind again with the other half. It is not a permanent association/bind. When unattached to an androgen ligand the ANdrogen receptor has a half life of around 3hrs are replaced as needed. In the process of androgens though, the androgen receptor half life is doubled, the turnover rate (production of more receptors) increases substantially, and sensitivity increases.

Theoretically, ALCAR supplementation for fat burning should work well, but studies on ALCAR in isolation do not show very good results. Fat loss is typically attributed to the increased activity done by people, from the increased energy they have from ALCAR supplementation.

Yes ALCAR has been proven to have a lot of benefits, I believe it has been shown to up-regulate AR?

ALCAR has been shown to

ALCAR is often used as a brain booster, due to its ability to increase alertness and mitochondrial capacity while providing support for the neurons.

ALCAR has been shown to be very effective at alleviating the side effects of aging, like neurological decline and chronic fatigue. ALCAR supplementation is also a very safe method of improving insulin sensitivity and blood vessel health, particularly for people with delicate or weakened cardiac health. ALCAR can also protect neurons and repair certain damage, such as that caused by diabetes and diabetic neuropathy.

Among other things like increasing IGF binding protein in ONE study on otherwise healthy youth (but no concomitant increase in plasma IGF levels), ONE study has shown an increase in androgen receptor density in skeletal muscle tissue, an increase in nitric oxide production has been shown in a few studies but thought to be secondary to increase in plasma nitrates, and ONE study has shown decreased fasting levels of insulin in diabetics. The L-Carnitine form in doses of 15g can promote increased aerobic endurance and VO2 max.

The study you're referring to was an in-vivo and human study but a very small number of participants and has not been replicated afterwards. It increased the density of AR receptors in skeletal muscle but didn't increase testosterone levels directly. Indirectly it could potentially increase the effects of testosterone increasing receptor density.

 

[STAUNCHED427]

Dre you always bring good info to the table, and I agree the different forms of creatine are simply a marketing tactic IMO because creatine is creatine, except maybe Creatine HCl due to it being in the Hcl salt but I haven't looked into it enough. At the end of the day it is still creatine but the HCl salt is shown to be more effective at absorption yes? Still, can be achieved by taking more creatine mono anyway.

I'd rep ya but can't give you anymore lol

 

[DreDay187]

Dre you always bring good info to the table, and I agree the different forms of creatine are simply a marketing tactic IMO because creatine is creatine, except maybe Creatine HCl due to it being in the Hcl salt but I haven't looked into it enough. At the end of the day it is still creatine but the HCl salt is shown to be more effective at absorption yes? Still, can be achieved by taking more creatine mono anyway.

I'd rep ya but can't give you anymore lol

Lol no worries bro ahoy enough to help where I can.

You answered the question yourself, why worry about better absorption of a more expensive form of creatine (assuming it's more expensive) if you get full saturation with creatine mono with a 3-5g daily dose? Once you pass the full saturation point all the rest isn't metabolized and is excreted. What benefit does HCL form have in this case. None. You might use less of it, key word MIGHT, but it's already a more expensive form anyway (again assuming).

Here's a good read for you bro about the various forms:

Creatine, being the most popular ergogenic (sports-enhancing) supplement in history, comes in many forms. Some of these forms are scientifically found, whereas some are the children of an incestuous relationship of marketing and theory.

A full list and critique of different forms of creatine can be found in this subheader, Different forms of Creatine and Creatine Supplements.

Assuming Creatine Monohydrate (most frequently used in studies) is the standard by which to compare, no form of creatine has shown to be more powerful or potent.

Creatine Magnesium chelate may be a bit promising for its ability to prevent water weight gain at low doses. Creatine pyruvate also seems to produce higher blood levels of creatine, but this hasn't been shown to increase performance in any way.

Creatine Citrate and Creapure (Micronized Creatine), although just as potent as Creatine Monohydrate, are more water-soluble and may be of interest to avoid the clumping in water. This is similar to Creatine Nitrate, which currently does not have any legitimate scientific evidence to support the claims of superiority over Creatine Monohydrate.

Buffered Creatine (Kre-Alkalyn) and Creatine Hydrochloride (Con-Cret) both are negated by stomach acid, and turn into the basic creatine molecule. They are not worse, but not better either (assuming the dose is the same). Creatine Hydrochloride may be more water-soluble than Monohydrate as well.

It should be noted that the form known as 'Creatine Ethyl Ester' is actually much worse than creatine monohydrate, and degrades almost completely into the metabolite creatinine in the intestines.

There are no significant differences between powders, tablets, or capsules. Capsules and tablets are just vessels for the powder.

Overall, Creatine Monohydrate is the best 'bang-for-you-buck' form of creatine as the others tend to carry higher prices on the labels. That being said, other forms may have benefits that are not related to the creatine molecule itself but due to solubility.

Those with stomach cramping with creatine (which may be due to creatine monohydrate forming an insoluble precipitate in the stomach) should consider a more water-soluble form of creatine.

 

[Black Beard]

Dre put it perfectly. Even if other creatine forms are 10x more bioavailable. Once you reach full muscle creatine saturation, it does not matter. If you can do that with $20 supply of creatine that will last you 3 months, then why would you spend 4x as much money on something else?