large volume filtration questions / problems - ultimate filter setup

[tucc]

found this old thread: steroidology.com/forum/chemical-study/644590-what-ultimate-filter-set-up-large-volume.html post #4 in there from progear has me intrigued.

i've been working on setting up a better filter method then what i am doing. Ive got some of those glassware filters with a vacuum pump. my issue is the glass filters are WAYYYYY to damn slow. 4 hours to do 200ml using 50mm, .2, PTFE filters. It's simply inefficient time wise to try and do any sort of volume this way.

so...

1) what am i doing wrong with the glass filters? there's no way it should be this slow

2) progear commented about using pressure filters instead of vacuum filters. what would a setup look like? from the research I've done, I'd need sterlitech.com/pressure-filtration-vessel-740160-1.html + sterlitech.com/304-stainless-steel-300800.html.html. Or could i go with something like sterlitech.com/filter-holder-with-reservoir-361600.html?

3) can i use an air compressor to supply the pressure for it?

4) what else would be recommended to filter say 4 liters at a time?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Dreaded Pirate Roberts]

The secret is to use different poor size filters gradually get smaller and heat and pressure.

 

[Buttman3]

found this old thread: steroidology.com/forum/chemical-study/644590-what-ultimate-filter-set-up-large-volume.html post #4 in there from progear has me intrigued.

i've been working on setting up a better filter method then what i am doing. Ive got some of those glassware filters with a vacuum pump. my issue is the glass filters are WAYYYYY to damn slow. 4 hours to do 200ml using 50mm, .2, PTFE filters. It's simply inefficient time wise to try and do any sort of volume this way.

so...

1) what am i doing wrong with the glass filters? there's no way it should be this slow

2) progear commented about using pressure filters instead of vacuum filters. what would a setup look like? from the research I've done, I'd need sterlitech.com/pressure-filtration-vessel-740160-1.html + sterlitech.com/304-stainless-steel-300800.html.html. Or could i go with something like sterlitech.com/filter-holder-with-reservoir-361600.html?

3) can i use an air compressor to supply the pressure for it?

4) what else would be recommended to filter say 4 liters at a time?

Thanks in advance.

If you use a filtration set with a glass funnel with glass pores, such as this one here,

the filtration rate will be slow, due to the fact that the pores are not big enough and there are not many pores.



You need to get the filtration set with a glass funnel that has micro pores that looks like a white piece of sponge:
250mL,Filtration Kit,Erlenmeyer Flask & Filter Funnel & Handle pump,Funnel Set | eBay

This one works really well, and it can filter several hundred ml in under 5 minutes.

(A 150ml Buchner funnel has a 60mm (width) diameter.)



Just remember, when you buy the funnel, be sure to get the 0.2 micron filter membrane of the correct diameter (width) size:

A 60ml Buchner funnel has a 40mm (width) diameter.
-----Use a 47mm diameter filter membrane, and cut it to fit the funnel.

A 70ml Buchner funnel has a 47mm (width) diameter.
-----Use a 47mm diameter filter membrane.
Most membrane filter are made with 47mm diameter, so if you have a 70ml Buchner funnel, it is really easier to find the correct sized membrane filter (Membrane filter OD=47MM,0.22 micron,made by Nylon 6,50pcs/pack | eBay)

A 150ml Buchner funnel has a 60mm (width) diameter.
-----Use a 70mm diameter filter membrane, and cut it to fit the funnel.

A 200ml Buchner funnel has a 70mm (width) diameter.
-----Use a 70mm diameter filter membrane.

A 250ml Buchner funnel has a 80mm (width) diameter.[/b]
-----Use a 90mm diameter filter membrane, and cut it to fit the funnel.


The filter membrane material can be nylon or PVDF or PTFV.
These are compatible to be used with BA/BB/oil.
(Biomedical Innovations - A Nissha Company)

Nylon is the least less expensive option.

 

[OldKilroy]

I don't know how to use any of these bottle-top filters.

- How much of the setup is disposable & what do you re-use? I've seen ones where the whole setup is wrapped in sterile plastic, so I guess the entire thing--upper chamber & collecting bottle--is disposable?

- How do you get the filtered product out of the collecting bottle and into a sterile vial? As soon as you unscrew the filter from on top of the collecting bottle, it isn't sterile anymore!

- Can you clean the filter out with alcohol & re-use it?

 

[Old Duffer]

Don't know what's common for this process but What I presumed to be the process for sterilization would be that the sterilizing happens in the vials after everything else is done?

Some filters can be back-flushed and reused. Others are disposable. Not for reuse

 

[sirxxxlew]

First post back in Chem study since my last log In in 2009. And getting back into the HB game for self supply. So I may come off as a little "old school" since I've been out of the game for quite a while. So I apologize if my methods aren't the current standard. But when I used to filter large amounts I found that steady temperature was very important(too cool and you'll clog up) and a good pressure guage to keep a steady pressure and nice even flow. A .2 micron filter is going to go relatively slow in my experience. I've never used glass setups like some of the pics posted above. I've always used the one and done all in one vaccum filters that came wrapped like you described and that varied in size from 50-500ml. Never had a problem as long as I didnt try to rush it and pump the pressure up too high and blow the filter out or crack the receiver bottle. For sterilizing non sterile bottles (which is any bottle that's unsealed) the method we used to use is to heat them to a certain degree for a certain amount of time in oven (a mod or someone who's done this more recently will have the exact numbers because I've forgotten) or I've been out of the game too long and the method has completely changed and if that's the case please someone correct me. The transfer to the bottles was tricky and had to be very careful and in a sterile environment and stoppers were all wiped down with alcohol before capping. Like you said I guess it's not 100% sterile when transferring because you have to take it from the big bottle to the smaller ones. But in all the years I did this I never had a problem with a batch as long as gloves, masks, New syringes, needles and basically taking my time during the transfer process. If I'm wrong and steering the op in the wrong direction or giving bad advice here please again, mod or more experienced HBer correct me because I'm getting back into it myself and want to stay relatively up to date on new methods.

 

[zaqwe]

First post back in Chem study since my last log In in 2009. And getting back into the HB game for self supply. So I may come off as a little "old school" since I've been out of the game for quite a while. So I apologize if my methods aren't the current standard. But when I used to filter large amounts I found that steady temperature was very important(too cool and you'll clog up) and a good pressure guage to keep a steady pressure and nice even flow. A .2 micron filter is going to go relatively slow in my experience. I've never used glass setups like some of the pics posted above. I've always used the one and done all in one vaccum filters that came wrapped like you described and that varied in size from 50-500ml. Never had a problem as long as I didnt try to rush it and pump the pressure up too high and blow the filter out or crack the receiver bottle. For sterilizing non sterile bottles (which is any bottle that's unsealed) the method we used to use is to heat them to a certain degree for a certain amount of time in oven (a mod or someone who's done this more recently will have the exact numbers because I've forgotten) or I've been out of the game too long and the method has completely changed and if that's the case please someone correct me. The transfer to the bottles was tricky and had to be very careful and in a sterile environment and stoppers were all wiped down with alcohol before capping. Like you said I guess it's not 100% sterile when transferring because you have to take it from the big bottle to the smaller ones. But in all the years I did this I never had a problem with a batch as long as gloves, masks, New syringes, needles and basically taking my time during the transfer process. If I'm wrong and steering the op in the wrong direction or giving bad advice here please again, mod or more experienced HBer correct me because I'm getting back into it myself and want to stay relatively up to date on new methods.

Oven will not sterilize 100% for that you need an autoclave (also for: vials, toppers, glassware, etc.)
Also NEVER use alcohol to sterilize anything.

 

[Mycelium]

The problem with sterilization is it depends on the environment and exposure. We might sterilize the glass heating it at 400f for 30 minutes but as soon as the surface tempature drops anything in the air will contaminate it.

From mushroom culture nothing is actually sterile, unless done in a sterile environment. Breathing can contaminate things easily. Our kitchen is a bad place to try and be sterile.

A liquid culture is pressure cooked first to sterilize it and then a isolated peice of mycelium or uncontaminated liquid culture is put in to grow. If we did vial transfers like liquid culture expansion it would be done in a still air box at least and the needle would be flame sterilized between each injection. If we wanted to have a lower contamination rate we would build a flow hood and have a draft of filtered air blowing to work in.

Sterile in homebrew isn't treated with the same seriousness and strickness as mushroom growing. Sterile is the entire process. Any time there is exposure it's simply sanitary.