Long term damage

[Jimmykick]

I'd like to open for discussion the idea that Steroids can cause long term damage. These are my opinions. Feel free to dispute or oppose.
Let's look at guys like Dan Duchaine, I believe he injected himself like a pin cushion and many of those times he was experimenting on himself and then reporting the findings. We owe him a debt of gratitude for what he contributed to our community re: post cycle therapy (pct) recovery, Dirty Dieting newsletter, synergy with certain mixes of chemicals, Bodyopus, etc. but does anyone else believe that his death (he was 48 years old) may have been caused by treating himself as a lab rat? He died in his sleep at his apartment from what was explained to be natural causes. Considering that the medical community at that time had no real tell tale signs of steroid abuse and that he often was experimenting with chemicals that doctors had no idea about, that would make sense. In his defense, he was born with polycystic kidney disease, a genetic defect that often leads to kidney failure but while in prison he suffered a small stroke which he recovered from. He also had gallbladder problems which turned out to be gallstones and a possible ulcer. Before he died he had been suffering with the "flu" which had plagued him for weeks. His health declined and his bodyweight dropped drastically.

There is plenty of information on the web regarding the effects of steroids on the heart. Just google it and be open minded. Now that the medical community is looking at this objectively (for the most part) as opposed to recent years past where it was all hype of danger, could they be right? What about the others like Mentzer, Arnold needed heart surgery too. A friend of mine that many people believe took steroids in high school just passed away at age 38...Heart Attack. Do we really know what we are doing to ourselves?

Many newbies think it's just fun to inject themselves, even find it to be addicting for the adrenaline rush when they first start out using but it's not something to be taken lightly or a game. I think we should all try to focus in more on moderate and responsible use of these very powerful hormones. We can see the results easily on the outside but the results or damage on the inside is not visible. Get your eating right, work your ass off in the gym, sleep 8 hours peacefully and make sure that you have reached your max genetic potential before you ever consider taking roids. Remember to get your bloodwork done regularly and look for abberations (especially cholesterol) with your doctor, use the minimum amount possible to spur growth and please be patient. So many think they take this stuff and suddenly they should look like Lou Ferrigno. Again, the medical community is still learning more and there are no real conclusive studies on humans out there. In spite of that, you are living in the boom years of steroid use. Never in history has the use of these drugs been so widespread and information is only just beginning to come but the final verdict is still not in.

Personally, I believe that we are all doing some damage. Everything has a trade off. Again, just my opinion. Sorry for the gloom and doom post but We are all here to help each other and this has been bothering me for a while before my friend died so it's caused me to take a step back. I'd like to open it up for discussion ...

 

[ManOfMuscle]

Personally, I believe that we are all doing some damage. Everything has a trade off.

I agree with you Jimmy. I think that the damage can be managed pretty well as long as the individual is responsible with their health. There are lots of trade offs in the iron game that one has to accept. Lifting heavy weights is hard on your joints, being big and muscular is hard on the heart etc.

 

[Jimmykick]

Thanks Lift. Obviously we all love what they do for us on the outside but I just hope that we aren't hurting ourselves long term. I think of all of you as my friends and confidants. I'd hate to see any of us be fucked up. I just think it's worth taking a look at.

 

[Thoms]

People that take steroids DO shorten their life, there's no question about it. Even if there would be no long-term health concerns, like the lipid profile, blood pressure or enlarged/stiffened heart, it will still shorten your life merely because the increase in muscle mass wears your body down quicker. You'll have a 160 pound man's heart pumping blood for a 220 pound body. I find the idea that my next shot of Sustanon (sust) will take 1 week off my life quite depressing. But life is meant for living, not for sitting in a corner all your life and squeeze out another meaningless year.

 

[Insane_Man]

I agree. There is stuff going on in our bodies that we cannot comprehend. We can take all the serms, ais and whatever else to counteract sides, but we don't really truly understand our endocrine system, even doctors don't. I was on test for 6 months and just started to feel like shit, shutting down my natural production for that long was simply not a good thing to do, especially at my age.


Another example of this. Second cycle I was doing tren and test. I had a shitload of nolva powder, so I just ran it at 20mg a day to ward off gyno which had bothered me a bit first cycle. Of course a study released after showed that nolva increases prolactin activity. I later realized that my lactating nips on cycle were probably caused by synergy between the tren and nolva. Even now I can still squeeze out a very small amount of fluid sometimes, so the effects were permanent.

 

[Jimmykick]

I find the idea that my next shot of Sustanon (sust) will take 1 week off my life quite depressing. But life is meant for living, not for sitting in a corner all your life and squeeze out another meaningless year.

Thanks Thoms. I have to ask you why is life meaningless without gear?
How did you get that part about the one week of your life being deleted with each inject?

If that's true I am quitting today

 

[Jimmykick]

I agree. There is stuff going on in our bodies that we cannot comprehend. We can take all the serms, ais and whatever else to counteract sides, but we don't really truly understand our endocrine system, even doctors don't. I was on test for 6 months and just started to feel like shit, shutting down my natural production for that long was simply not a good thing to do, especially at my age.

How old are you Insane?

 

[Insane_Man]

I'm 21

 

[Tafman]

http://www.jacklalanne.com/

guy is 93 now i believe, claims in a interview he will see 150.

 

[Insane_Man]

http://www.jacklalanne.com/

guy is 93 now i believe, claims in a interview he will see 150.

Does he juice? And I'm not talking about the Power Juicer.


I mean this dude always advocated aerobics and light exercises. Surely thats the way to be if you wanna live forever.

 

[DocJ]

I've commented in many threads on this subject. The only long term cumulative effect that I'm worried about is having a poor lipid profile while on leading to some form of CVD. I believe that cardiomegaly is much less likely than a lot of people think. Some research actually suggests that weightlifters in general regardless of Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) use are more suceptible to an enlarged heart. I also believe that Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) use has the potential to accelerate conditions that are already pre-determined by genetics. Example: If someone tells me that their Dad and 3 uncles all died of a heart attack by the age of 45, my advice will be to not even look at a bottle of Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) let alone use it.

 

[ManOfMuscle]

I've commented in many threads on this subject. The only long term cumulative effect that I'm worried about is having a poor lipid profile while on leading to some form of CVD. I believe that cardiomegaly is much less likely than a lot of people think. Some research actually suggests that weightlifters in general regardless of Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) use are more suceptible to an enlarged heart. I also believe that Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) use has the potential to accelerate conditions that are already pre-determined by genetics. Example: If someone tells me that their Dad and 3 uncles all died of a heart attack by the age of 45, my advice will be to not even look at a bottle of Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) let alone use it.

Coshizzle.

 

[Bast]

Personally I dont think we do all that much damage. I think the "bad guy" in the whole thing is bloodpressure.

Thoms: That is not true, when you grow everything in youre body will grow with the rest.

Also, I think IF used correcly and using good post cycle therapy (pct) with all the extras (hcg, slin, igf1-lr3, possibly hgh etc) and maintaining the training and diet at 100% then you dont get that shut down, most just lack off when theyre not using.

Good topic!

 

[fr8tren]

i am afraid that i (naively perhaps) agree w/ Bast. i think if you dont abuse it , like running over a gram of test for 5 years straight or something, or whatever the bodybuilders run (i know its more than that), you arent doing yourself any harm.

i only say this because i run modest prop/tren cycles and i get bloodwork done periodically and check my BP all the time, and i am fine .

as far as cardiomegaly, as someone said above, ALL atheletes are susceptible to it. are there any studies that conclude that Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) affects cardiac musculature in addition to skeletal muscle? i am very curious if anybody happens to have any research on that.

i mean, if that were the case, wouldnt our intestines be "huge" or our diaphragm? those are muscles too....just different kinds.

 

[Jimmykick]

thanks but I am more concerned about hidden damage i.e heart or other internal organs. I do have a study that definitely has caused me to take a long hard look at this. This study was recently done and reported this month. in fact just one week ago by the British journal of medicine. http://heart.healthcentersonline.com/newsstories/anabolicsteroidsraiselevelsharmful.cfm

Anabolic steroids raise levels of harmful protein

Aug 14 (Reuters Health) - A new study provides more evidence that long-term use of anabolic steroids can cause heart and blood vessel disease, and may even boost the risk of sudden death.
UK researchers found that bodybuilders who used the muscle-building steroids had increased levels of homocysteine, a protein tied to increased mortality, heart disease risk and blood vessel damage, compared with bodybuilders who didn't use the performance-enhancing drugs.

Three steroid users died suddenly during the course of the study, and all had homocysteine levels that were higher than the average for steroid-using study participants.

"The findings of this study suggest that anabolic-androgenic steroids are detrimental to cardiovascular health and appear to be implicated in cardiovascular mortality in long-term anabolic-androgenic steroid abuse," Dr. Michael R. Graham of the University Glamorgan in Pontypridd, Wales and colleagues conclude.

There have been reports suggesting that steroid users face an increased risk of sudden death as well as acute clotting-related health problems such as stroke and heart attack, Graham and his team note.

To determine whether steroid users might have increased homocysteine levels, which could contribute to the risk of heart and blood vessel problems, the researchers measured levels of homocysteine and several other substances in the blood in bodybuilders who had been using steroids for more than 20 years.

They were compared to steroid-using bodybuilders who had abstained from the drugs for three months, bodybuilders who had never used steroids, and sedentary, non-steroid-using men.

Current and past steroid users had higher homocysteine levels than other study participants, as well as "dramatically elevated" levels of hematocrit.

As mentioned, three of the steroid-using bodybuilders died during the study period and all of them had significantly higher levels of homocysteine than the average for the steroid-using group.

Sudden death and acute clotting events "may represent under-appreciated risks" of anabolic steroid use, the team warns.

SOURCE: British Journal of Sports Medicine, July 2006.
Publish Date: August 14, 2006

 

[fr8tren]

hmmm, thats interesting. but not enough info, i am afraid. what did they consider "steroid user" 500mg test a week , or a stack of 6 different compounds...you know what i mean? that is a very generic study....

dont get me wrong , i am not discounting it at all. i dont think juicing for a long time or abusing it is necessarily GOOD for you, but i dont think you will "die suddenly " either.

(i'll probably be one of the ones that do, ha ha)

 

[backup]

Just my two cents...I have a friend that did his first cycle not to long ago but before doing so consulted with his long time trusted personal physician.

Physician said this....most medically documented problems associated with steroid use can be attributed to one or more of three things...using too high of doses, staying on cycle to long, or cycling too frequently and not allowing the body's natural chemistry to restore between cycles.

Physicians advice was that if my friend was curious, to go ahead with the doses discussed (400 test E/250 deca). Physician said stay away from the orals, intra muscular injections of good quality gear are much safer for the body. Keep cycle to 12 weeks or less (8-10 was his suggestion).

Physician ordered pre cycle blood work and demanded to continue testing every 4 weeks through the cycle. He said that the blood work should pick up any potential problems soon enough to defeat them by discontinuing use.

This particular physician seemed very knowleagable and had some experience with patients and AS. His opinion was that the right doses administered correctly pose very little risk of long term health problems.

Just passing on what a friend told me...

 

[bmass]

the lipid profile which causes problems with the heart Mike mentzer died from a heart condition ,arnold had surgery done on his heart so thats one of the biggest concernes i have and also you can damage your hormone production permanently ,nobody knows what years of cycling can do to the hormon production but i´ve talked about this whith my Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) doc(endo) and he told me that you can damage the hormonproduction permanently after years of cycling ,some people are in denial and dont believe it but its a fact.
We are litteraly overdosing this drugs for years and who knows the longterm effects but pure logics say that it cant be healthy for you when you take overdoses of steroids mixed with AI´s and other drugs,thats why its so important to go on regular healthchecks to minemize the risks of something bad happening..

 

[Warmachine]

logic does NOT state that these drugs MUST be harmful. I think it will be dependent on the individual. We all know the dangers associated with long term smoking yet we can all cite an example of a relative that smoked for 60+ years and out lived most others of their generation.

i agree that physians monitering is necessary when using AAS, especially longer cycles. i will consider staying on for a few more monthes if my blood work isnt bad.

 

[Thoms]

Thanks Thoms. I have to ask you why is life meaningless without gear?
How did you get that part about the one week of your life being deleted with each inject?

Life sure isn't meaningless without gear. But life where you can't do anyhing, is. If I would never leave the house, never have sex, never drink, never smoke, never work, never eat too much, and avoid sunlight, I might live to be 100. But then I would look back on my life at age 99, and realise I would only have a year to make up for a lot of waisted time. I rationalize my decisions this way: will I take 1 hour off the end of my life for 10 000 000$? Yes. Would I take 10 years off the end for 100$? No.The line is drawn inbetween. Will I cycle once every year for losing 1 year off my life? The answer is yes. And I am a very firm believer that it will shorten your life, irreversibly. No there have been no studies about it, it's common sence, as is the fact that a car in a garage will last longer than a car driven every day. There are no BB that will live to the age of 100. Ever. In the entire world.