protein
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kfairhurst
New member
Some proteins are incomplete, but eaten with a variety of foods and other incomplete proteins they will be completed. As far as gains go, if the amount of protein required by your body is ingested, your body is not going to be picky about source. Your diet should include a variety of food, including protein sources but protein source is something people worry too much about. Steak and eggs or whey doesn't really matter to your body. I'd rather eat whole foods then use whey products at any given time just for the additional nutrients that the whole food will provide. But that being said, you could use whey as your primary protein source if you wanted to. It's a very complicated answer, but the moral of the story is that protein source is not a big deal.
Do yourselves a favour and do some reading on Layne Norton and Alan Aragon. Look up the protein round table with Alan Aragon, Eric Helms and Ian McCarthy.
Do yourselves a favour and do some reading on Layne Norton and Alan Aragon. Look up the protein round table with Alan Aragon, Eric Helms and Ian McCarthy.
infection
The Chemist
Depends on what you are doing with the protein.
A more 'pure protein' such as whey protein can be absorbed much quicker which is ideal for post workout. Several powder mixes can be optimized for slower release which is best for overnight use while sleeping.
With regards to meat, it tends to be better consuming leaner meats solely because it will be more healthy. I can't remember what the reasoning was, but last month my professor mentioned something about pork and how terrible of a meat it was because the human body's destructive metabolism doesn't interact with pig meat the same as it would for chicken or beef.
Beans, more specifically, soy, are great to supplement into your diet, but are not as complete of a protein compared to meats, etc, and there always seems to be some controversy about soy protein usage for men in large quantities.
A more 'pure protein' such as whey protein can be absorbed much quicker which is ideal for post workout. Several powder mixes can be optimized for slower release which is best for overnight use while sleeping.
With regards to meat, it tends to be better consuming leaner meats solely because it will be more healthy. I can't remember what the reasoning was, but last month my professor mentioned something about pork and how terrible of a meat it was because the human body's destructive metabolism doesn't interact with pig meat the same as it would for chicken or beef.
Beans, more specifically, soy, are great to supplement into your diet, but are not as complete of a protein compared to meats, etc, and there always seems to be some controversy about soy protein usage for men in large quantities.
kfairhurst
New member
The post workout window is looked at by many as a myth. If you eat a proper meal containing protein before your workout, the plasma levels of amino acids in your blood stay elevated for hours after a meal. Worrying about the timing over actual quantity is a waste of time IMO.
There's a lot of myths surrounding protein that have been debunked. Layne Nortons work or Alan Aragon's will benefit anyone who chooses to do some interesting reading.
infection
The Chemist
I am actually doing some of my biochemical research on this at university, but more so on the cellular level.
Consuming protein before workouts is actually NOT good, and there should be at least an hour window of eating and beginning your workout. Exercise causes ammonia production from the metabolization of proteins, and this is accentuated if you consume more protein while working out or as a pre-workout. Ammonia is the primary cause of exercise fatigue, so why would you exacerbate the problem more so by having more protein?
And YES, there is a small window after a workout to consume calories. It is called GLUCONOGENESIS. It is a proven thing that you should probably learn... A portion of your calories will come from the protein, but the majority will be from sugar such as dextrose or amylase. The body after a workout will scavenge for calories especially when the ammonia levels are elevated, and muscle tissue is a great source for it to attack.
Your MYTHS are actually TRUTHS. Ask any chemist or person who has ever taken a biochemistry class.
kfairhurst
New member
I am actually doing some of my biochemical research on this at university, but more so on the cellular level.
Consuming protein before workouts is actually NOT good, and there should be at least an hour window of eating and beginning your workout. Exercise causes ammonia production from the metabolization of proteins, and this is accentuated if you consume more protein while working out or as a pre-workout. Ammonia is the primary cause of exercise fatigue, so why would you exacerbate the problem more so by having more protein?
And YES, there is a small window after a workout to consume calories. It is called GLUCONOGENESIS. It is a proven thing that you should probably learn... A portion of your calories will come from the protein, but the majority will be from sugar such as dextrose or amylase. The body after a workout will scavenge for calories especially when the ammonia levels are elevated, and muscle tissue is a great source for it to attack.
I would never tell anyone to eat a full meal immediately before a workout, that's sheer stupidity. I always recommend at least one hour pre-workout. And thanks, but I know what "GLUCONOGENESIS" (proper spelling = gluconeogenesis) is. And yes your body needs carbs/glycogen to recuperate, but unless someone is being trained in a fasted state, carbohydrates immediately post workout are not that crucial. Weight training does not at all deplete you of as much glycogen as you'd think. That's an incredibly close-minded way of looking at things.
Your MYTHS are actually TRUTHS. Ask any chemist or person who has ever taken a biochemistry class.
Bolds
Last edited:
kfairhurst
New member
From Nutrition Facts | Alan Aragon Gives the Inside Scoop |
See bolds again...
"Alan Aragon: The post-exercise “anabolic window” is a highly misused & abused concept. Preworkout nutrition all but cancels the urgency, unless you’re an endurance athlete with multiple glycogen-depleting events in a single day. Getting down to brass tacks, a relatively recent study (Power et al. 2009) showed that a 45g dose of whey protein isolate takes appx. 50 minutes to cause blood AA levels to peak. Resulting insulin levels, which peaked at 40 minutes after ingestion, remained at elevations known to max out the inhibition of muscle protein breakdown (15-30 mU/L) for 120 minutes after ingestion. This dose takes 3 hours for insulin & AA levels to return to baseline from the point of ingestion. The inclusion of carbs to this dose would cause AA & insulin levels to peak higher & stay elevated above baseline even longer.
So much for the anabolic peephole & the urgency to down AAs during your weight training workout; they are already seeping into circulation (& will continue to do so after your training bout is done). Even in the event that a preworkout meal is skipped, the anabolic effect of the postworkout meal is increased as a supercompensatory response (Deldicque et al, 2010). Moving on, another recent study (Staples et al, 2010) found that a substantial dose of carbohydrate (50g maltodextrin) added to 25g whey protein was unable to further increase post-exercise net muscle protein balance compared to the protein dose without carbs. Again, this is not to say that adding carbs at this point is counterproductive, but it certainly doesn’t support the idea that you must get your lightning-fast post-exercise carb orgy for optimal results.
Something that people don’t realize is that there’s no “magic anabolic window” that’s open for a short period of time near the workout & then rapidly disappears. As a result of a single training bout, the receptivity of muscle to protein dosing can persist for at least 24 hours (Burd et al, 2011)."
See bolds again...
"Alan Aragon: The post-exercise “anabolic window” is a highly misused & abused concept. Preworkout nutrition all but cancels the urgency, unless you’re an endurance athlete with multiple glycogen-depleting events in a single day. Getting down to brass tacks, a relatively recent study (Power et al. 2009) showed that a 45g dose of whey protein isolate takes appx. 50 minutes to cause blood AA levels to peak. Resulting insulin levels, which peaked at 40 minutes after ingestion, remained at elevations known to max out the inhibition of muscle protein breakdown (15-30 mU/L) for 120 minutes after ingestion. This dose takes 3 hours for insulin & AA levels to return to baseline from the point of ingestion. The inclusion of carbs to this dose would cause AA & insulin levels to peak higher & stay elevated above baseline even longer.
So much for the anabolic peephole & the urgency to down AAs during your weight training workout; they are already seeping into circulation (& will continue to do so after your training bout is done). Even in the event that a preworkout meal is skipped, the anabolic effect of the postworkout meal is increased as a supercompensatory response (Deldicque et al, 2010). Moving on, another recent study (Staples et al, 2010) found that a substantial dose of carbohydrate (50g maltodextrin) added to 25g whey protein was unable to further increase post-exercise net muscle protein balance compared to the protein dose without carbs. Again, this is not to say that adding carbs at this point is counterproductive, but it certainly doesn’t support the idea that you must get your lightning-fast post-exercise carb orgy for optimal results.
Something that people don’t realize is that there’s no “magic anabolic window” that’s open for a short period of time near the workout & then rapidly disappears. As a result of a single training bout, the receptivity of muscle to protein dosing can persist for at least 24 hours (Burd et al, 2011)."
infection
The Chemist
I will definitely look into what you are saying more so, because I can be wrong, and I guess I would like to see if there is something new to consider.
You are right about the anabolic window. I know some people right now doing the intermittent fasting and supposedly the body doesn't go catabolic for like 16 hours or something crazy, which I actually don't know much about, but it is interesting to hear things like that especially if it is true.
kfairhurst
New member
Just don't be so quick to call bullshit on something that you aren't 100% sure on next time. There's tonnes and tonnes more evidence supporting what I posted.
kfairhurst
New member
There is definitely a huge benefit to eating prior to workout, that's what the studies show. If you have eaten a proper pre-workout meal, you all but eliminate the need for a post-workout shake & carbs. The key is timing, I recommend 1 hour prior to working out at the closest with solid foods, with 1.5 hours being preferred. There is an absolute tonne of information backing this up.
kfairhurst
New member
A long video, but I think it's worth a watch: The Protein Roundtable - Alan Aragon, Eric Helms, and Ian McCarthy discuss protein intake - YouTube
Alan Aragon's book "Girth Control" is also a worthwhile purchase.
Alan Aragon's book "Girth Control" is also a worthwhile purchase.
4everBulking
New member
It's all about MODERATION! If you eat in moderation" a little bit of everything" you will see gains going through the roof!
Spidermannn
Freak Show
The days i eat lots of meat for my protein, i pound the shit out of some weights. The days i use more powder than food, i dont feel as good about my workout. Thanks for the info
germaine07
I am banned!
Great posts. Totally agree with you on everything. I just have one little nit pick.
Eating 1-1.5hours does not always work out best for everyone when it comes to training. Pre-workout nutrition is something that is usually very individual and what works for one does not always work for another. Take for example fasted training. Some feel great and others just feel tired and hungry. The same goes for pre meal. Some people can't train without one, others it can actually hinder performance.
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