2nd (stacked) Cycle. When should I start?

[zeus104]

H: 5'7"
W: 190 lbs
Age: 35
BF: 10 - 14%
Lifting experience: 15 years
Goal: Increase in lean bodyweight

anabolic steroids: 250 mg/wk testosterone-E (weeks 1-10
400 mg/wk Masteron-E (weeks 1-10 or possibly 5-10)
40 mg/ED T-Bol (weeks 1-4)


PCT: Adex throughout the cycle. Will start off low dose because of the Masteron being used and increase as needed. HCG about a week after the cycle is finished, for about 2 weeks...followed by Nolva @ 40,20,20,10


Nutrition: 6 meals per day, High protein, moderate fat, low carb.

Supplements: Whey protein isolate, omega-3 fish oil, CLA, multi-vitamin, Carnitine, ZMA, Milk thistle (while using T-Bol)


Hey Guys,

So i just finished 3 months of ramping up my training for the winter. I've been really focused on leaning out as natural as possible and managed to lose about 15 pounds through dieting and increased cardio. (mostly diet tho - I do moderate cardio).

I'm ready to get started with the cycle above, but the thing is ... i ended up doing 6 weeks of anavar towards the end of my diet. Once I started to notice the weight coming down, I freaked out like a little girl and started to lay awake at night, wondering how much of this loss might be muscle. I mentioned this to a buddy and he gave me a light suppy of Var to use for anti-catabolic purposes. I used Var only for this (40 mg ED), but did a proper PCT of HCG and now Nolva (just at 20,20,10,10) I just finished my PCT and I am itching to start this cycle i have planned, but I'm not sure how long to wait. I def. got shut down at least a bit towards the the last cpl weeks, but as soon as I used the HCG, the boys were back ...better than ever and probably better than before the Var. I think the Nolva was overkill to be honest, (but what are ya' gonna' do?)

-- So.. I feel great and I'm ready to rock. How long should I wait? Suggestions please?

Thanks.

 

[Kazmir]

I would wait at least 4 weeks after PCT to give yourself a break from the orals as you just finished orals and the start of next cycle is going to be an oral kickstart.

Drop the milk thistle and get NAC. Add clomid to your PCT for this cycle, run the hcg during cycle not after for the on cycle benefits of the compound.
Personally I would up my test to at least meet my mast dosage but that's personal opinion and to each their own.

 

[tbonexl]

250mgs of test and 400mgs of mast a week is pretty low! Pct means post cycle therapy so not sure why u mentioned an ai and pct or whatever. My opinion is this cycle is not worth doing at all. I would double everything and run an ai.

 

[zeus104]

I appreciate the feedback. Ya' ... I was thinking about giving it a month, post PCT at minimum. I've heard of waiting longer, but I really don't want to wait and I don't think I was shut down too bad. A month off should bring me to normal.

My bad... I know Adex is an AI. I was just lazy when writing it out. Did you read the part where this is my first stacked cycle? Why would I want to increase those amounts? I will probably put on a few pounds of lean muscle on the Tbol alone.. I know this from experience. Test alone leaves me very bloated and the last time I used it... Someone told me that I would be wasting it if I did less than 500 mg and I ended up finding out that 1) I'm very much prone to gyno and 2) gaining lean muscle is difficult for me on test, as my body wants to just grow and all I want to do is eat. I'm not saying this is a crazy cycle, but I don't have time to mess around with my body and losing the 15 pounds wasn't easy for me. If I can replace that 15 lbs with lean muscle...i'll be more than satisified. I'm 36 At 5'7, 200 lbs of lean muscle is plenty for me, for now. This is basically a low Masteron cycle, with a maintenance dose of test and Tbol for a kickstart.

 

[tbonexl]

Your basically running a trt dose of test. I'm betting you were bloated cuz u either didn't run an ai on cycle or u didn't run enough ai. Mast is good for lower bf and can be run higher then test. It's not an ai so u need to get one. If your low on body fat, running 500 mgs of test with 600-800 mgs of mast would be a good cycle. What your planning to do with your idea of a cycle can be achieved with good dieting.

 

[zeus104]

Fair enough ... and you're right that's basically what I'm doing right now, is dieting. I don't think I can lose much more weight though, without sacrificing an insane amount of hard earned muscle. I can't see why I shouldn't let a low dose of Masteron help me out. I'm sure it will take me my bf % down by another point or two. I'm not opposed to upping my test to 500 or higher, but I'm sceptical that I would get the lean gains that I want by doing that. As for the Ai, I still plan on using Adex, so nothing has changed there. I've used this the last time I was on test and it helped for sure, but that said ... I still feel like i'm prone to a bit of bloating and I def. don't want to have to worry about any chance of gyno (always get puffy nips) while doing this cycle. Again...thanks for the reply

 

[Kazmir]

Its less about the dosage and more about what is done while at the dosage that matters, I ran 600mgs test, 600 EQ and 600 tren and lost 3% BF and gained 15lbs at the same time. Use your AI and diet to control the bloat. If your still bloated with an AI, increase water consumption to aleviate the issue. As long as your AI is used properly there should be very little chance of gyno.

I just don't think you will be happy with the results of this cycle, I see where your coming from on paper but running a maintenance test with low mast and low dose tbol will help harden you up and maintain weight in a minimal deficit but for lean mass gain there are way better options

 

[zeus104]

I guess I'll have to just manage my AI dosing a bit better this time around.... I'll fight the urge to keep my test to a minimum and give 500 another go. I'm glad you guys brought this up, because it really makes sense and If I can't get over my fear of using more test then i'm screwed out the door I guess.
I considered running Tren originally, but I don't think I'm quite ready for it yet, which is why I chose the Masteron. For dosing, I figured start with the minimum at 400 and see where that takes me. I work pretty hard in the gym and with my diet in check now, I'm due for/deserve a decent cycle. I wouldn't want to gain much more than 10-15 this time around though. How does EQ stand up to Masteron for building lean muscle?

 

[Kazmir]

EQ is great but its like primo its gotta be ran for way too long (about 20 weeks)so its something for alot later down the road.
I think your heading in the right direction by saying you want to be on the lower end of dosage and work up but its just masteron is not a "gaining drug" its an amazing tool for hardening and retention and to use it to actually grow off of it your gonna need to use a large amount.
For what your looking to do at this point 500mgs of test for 12-14 weeks with a 4-6 week tbol kickstart should be plenty. Run arimidex at .25mgs EOD and increase if you see high estro signs. Keep your diet extremely clean and into a surplus increasing by about 300cals at a time as weight stabalizes. Make sure water intake is high, its a natural diuretic so take advantage of it when you need it.

 

[zeus104]

You're probably right ... the increased test + the Tbol will most likely make me grow like a weed. I was at 200-205 with a higher body fat for the past 2 years, so i'm thinking the muscle memory will make a 15 lb gain easy. I could probably pack on 5 lbs of muscle in a few weeks naturally, with lot's of training and good diet. I still have the Masteron though ... should I perhaps just use it at the end of the cycle (depending on how i'm making out) but in a doubled amount? ... ei. 600-800 mg for weeks 7-12?