3rd cycle PCT question. Running clomid/nolva longer

[mrricco2012]

This is my 3rd cycle. Did a simple Test-E cycle with tbol 50mg for 6 weeks. Test-E dosage was 600 mg Every week, except last week (week 12 was only 300mg)

So I am 35 days into my PCT. I've been doing normal dosage Clomid 100/100/50/50 and Nolva 40/40/20/ 20. Still doing 50 of clomid, and 20 of Nolva. I have enough Nolva for another 9 days. Clomid I have enough for 2 months. I was wondering if it was a bad idea to keep on going like this. My last cycle I had to restart PCT with clomid for 35mg ED because I wasnt recovering. This cycle I felt like I recovered after week 1. I havent lost any weight, my lifts have gone down 10-15 lbs, erections are hornyness is good to go thanks to cialis (actually having the best sex of my life), no depression (last 2 PCTS I had bad depression).

Just a simple can i keep up with my PCT ( go for 2 months total PCT instead of the normal 1).

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

if anything need to run HCG longer. without HCG, (especially on the third time) your not really going to recover.

 

[mrricco2012]

I did 250IUS twice a week for 8 weeks during cycle. I have more HCG I could run. I thought you shouldnt run HCG after a cycle.

 

[Bigboss12]

Don't run hcg post cycle. You can continue the Nolva and clomid if I run longer then 12 weeks on a cycle for example a 16 week cycle. I always do 6 weeks of pct instead of 4

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Don't run hcg post cycle.

This is bad info man you need to do some reading on some more recent stuff.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

I did 250IUS twice a week for 8 weeks during cycle. I have more HCG I could run. I thought you shouldnt run HCG after a cycle.

dosages under 500IU at a time are probably not enough to override the suppression of testosterone, let alone something more suppressive.

 

[mrricco2012]

So you think I should go with 1000ius a week, which would only give me 5 weeks.

 

[Bigboss12]

This is bad info man you need to do some reading on some more recent stuff.

Hcg is suppressive to hpta which defeats the purpose of pct. hcg I say again doesn't belong in pct it should be ran through out the cycle at what op did 250iu's twice a week.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Hcg is suppressive to hpta which defeats the purpose of pct. hcg I say again doesn't belong in pct it should be ran through out the cycle at what op did 250iu's twice a week.

This is so far from what works best. HCG needs to be ran at much higher dosages than that, it also needs to be ran after exogenous T levels have dropped below 300ng/dl to maximally stimulate the testicles.

If this is not done your "pct" will fail. It is not sufficient to run HCG only during testosterone administration. Especially if its not your first time taking only testosterone.

I have tons of experience with this and blood work during the entire time.

Not to mention a recent study actually had the best results combining SERMS simultaneously with HCG, explain that one?

BJU Int. 2013 Mar;111(3 Pt B):E110-4. doi: 10.1111/j.1464-410X.2012.11485.x. Epub 2012 Sep 7.

Conclusion:For patients with non-obstructive azoospermia, clomiphene citrate, hCG and hMG administration, leading to an increased level of FSH and total testosterone, results in an increased rate of sperm in the ejaculate and increased likelihood of successful micro-TESE.

Abstract
Study Type - Therapy (outcomes) Level of Evidence 2a What's known on the subject? and What does the study add? Clomiphene citrate, hCG and human menopausal gonadotropin (hMG) are widely used in treatment of oligospermia, because they increase FSH and testosterone which are essential for spermatogenesis. Finding a sperm in non-obstructive azoospermia for intracytoplasmic sperm injection is a challenge and much effort is required to reach the optimum method of sperm retrieval. The study shows that a new protocol of clomiphene citrate, hCG and hMG in the treatment of non-obstructive azoospermia achieves an increase in the levels of FSH, LH and total testosterone to the target levels that we set. Our target level of FSH was 1.5 times its initial level and for serum testosterone it was 600-800 ng/dL. Using our described medical treatment protocol in cases of non-obstructive azoospermia, sperm may be found in patients' ejaculate (~11%) and if they remain azoospermic they will have a greater likelihood of sperms being obtained in testicular sperm extraction.
OBJECTIVE:
To evaluate the effect of optimizing serum level of follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), luteinizing hormone (LH) and testosterone on sperm retrieval for intracytoplasmic sperm injection.
PATIENTS AND METHODS:
A total of 612 patients with non-obstructive azoospermia were evaluated with routine history, physical examination and hormonal assessment. Of these, 116 patients underwent microsurgical (micro)-testicular sperm extraction (TESE) without any medical treatment and formed the control group and the remaining 496 patients were administered clomiphene citrate in a titrated dose. Patients were classified into four groups according to their response to clomiphene citrate. Group 1: patients with an obvious increase in FSH and total testosterone (n = 372). Group 2: patients showing an increase in FSH with no or little increase in LH and total testosterone (n = 62). For these patients we continued with clomiphene citrate and added human chorionic gonadotrophin (hCG). Group 3: patients with no increase in the levels of the three hormones (n = 46). Group 4: included patients with continuously decreasing serum testosterone levels in response to the increasing dose of clomiphene citrate (n = 16). Accordingly, patients in groups 3 and 4 discontinued clomiphene citrate and started hCG and human menopausal gonadotropin (hMG). Semen analyses were performed periodically and, in patients who remained azoospermic, micro-TESE was performed.
RESULTS:
Sperm were noted in 54 patients (10.9%) in semen analysis after treatment in all groups (with no significant difference) at a mean (sd) concentration of 2.3 (4.1) million/mL. For the 442 patients who remained azoospermic after treatment, successful sperm retrieval was significantly higher (57%) compared with the control group (33.6%).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22958644

 

[Bigboss12]

You run hcg past your lay pin up until you start pct. that way you have hcg when test is not being injected anymore in the case of test e you would use hcg for another 20ish days after last pin before you started pct...

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

You run hcg past your lay pin up until you start pct. that way you have hcg when test is not being injected anymore in the case of test e you would use hcg for another 20ish days after last pin before you started pct...

So your saying 20 days after a 12 week cycle of 600mg your TT levels from exogenous T would be less than 300 ng/dl?

Listen im not trying to be a prick, but I literally have tons more experience on the subject than you and have seen 100's of blood tests in the scenario, i don't really know why I'm arguing with you about it.

Your idea of how to do a PCT is old an outdated, and on top of that rarely works.

And again 250 IU is not enough.

good luck