41 year-old TRT Journey has begun

[Tog565]

Here goes nothin.....normal story as everyone else. Beast up until around 35 where I started craving bon bon's and crying at movies. Woke-up 6 years later to find my normal -12% b/f to be more like 33% and I am nearly unrecognizable. Never had ED issue but, was sure I had cancer or some shit. After getting "re-motivated" I found that I had no fire to last 5 minutes in a gym, enjoyed nothing, could work 90 hour weeks but could also sleep 90 hour weeks. Inwas merely existing. Nothing was fun nor depressing. It all just "was". Wife pushed me to the doctor and he read me like a book damn near instantly. Ordered a ton of blood tests and T came back at 168!!

PROTOCOL

Just started 200mg Test Cyp inject 22g 1 1/2" 1x weekly
*no ai as of yet as Doc wants to see what this does first. Said if I notice anything to come in asap and he will prescribe it
* wants labs on a thursday, after an inject on monday, but otherwise doesnt need to see me for 6 months unless I meed to see him
* have good insurance so this protocol is about $20 a month for Watson test cyp and needles so not worried about expense

OTHER SCRIPTS

Taking 1mg Finesteride p/day for MPB. Never saw it before until I did 3 months of worthless T gel. Sure, keeping my level low may have some consequences but having hair makes me feel good about myself and at the end of the day its me looking back at me in the mirror. To me if I am bald at this point in my life than I might as well be fat...lol. Some dudes look fine bald. Im not one of em.

DIET

Approximately 2025c. Daily of 202p. 202c.

* I've been a big F'ing slob for a few years and need to cut a lot of fat while preserving muscle.
* I'm sure there are better ways to cut now with all this carb cycling stuff etc but its all freaking crazy to me and seems hard to follow. May fast every Sunday however and see where that takes me (will cram some BCAAs down my throat though)

WORKOUT

BLS Program (5 days a week compound movements 3s of 5)
HiiT 3x a week (25 minutes of sprint for 30 secs jog for 1 min)


I came here because another TRT Group seems a bit crazy and looks to attack more than discuss. I am sure there are "better" ways to go about everything but this is whaty doctor has me doing and since he is thenone prescribing and caring for me than I am goung to follow his lead. Just want to ensure I have more knowledge to confer and bounce things off of him as well as to ensure I can get back to being healthy and can be around for my daughters well in to their lives. I was on a path of self destruction and am hoping I am on my way back. Let the workout, diet, and protocol advice fly and I thank-you in advance!

 

[hiram1st]

Welcome to ology

Here's a good thread with alot of good info and a link to trt basics:
http://www.steroidology.com/forum/a.../675497-ology-frequently-asked-questions.html

 

[Megatron28]

Welcome!

I would recommend making some changes to your TRT protocol. Injecting every 14 days is pretty old school. Are you familiar with the concept of a drug's half life?

Give this a read to gain a better understanding of TRT. And stick around here and just keep reading/asking questions. You will learn pretty quickly from the guys who have gone through this before you. We are lucky that we cab learn from their experiences.

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/testosterone-replacement-therapy/662394-basic-trt-overview.html

 

[Jimstigator]

Welcome!

I would recommend making some changes to your TRT protocol. Injecting every 14 days is pretty old school. Are you familiar with the concept of a drug's half life?

I believe he said 200mg 1x a week. Regardless, pretty high starting dose. You will probably run into estrogen issues with it like that.

Also - be very weary of propecia/finasteride. I likely wouldn't be in this forum writing to you if I hadn't taken it 10 years ago. That stuff is devils spit and I woulden't recommend any man, EVER, even my worst enemy, take it.

I'll Google finasteride syndrome for you...
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=finasteride syndrome

-Jim

 

[Megatron28]

I believe he said 200mg 1x a week. Regardless, pretty high starting dose. You will probably run into estrogen issues with it like that.

Also - be very weary of propecia/finasteride. I likely wouldn't be in this forum writing to you if I hadn't taken it 10 years ago. That stuff is devils spit and I woulden't recommend any man, EVER, even my worst enemy, take it.

I'll Google finasteride syndrome for you...
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=finasteride syndrome

-Jim

Good catch and even better advice.

 

[Tog565]

Thanks!!

Hey Hiram and Mega thanks for the welcome and the info. I am hoping by maintaining this thread that I can help others as this roller coaster sucked the life outta me. I am now that dude I use to make fun of and say how in the fuck could someone let themselves go like that....now I know. Karmas a bitch. My current protocol is 200mg IM weekly with a 22g 1 1/2. I am considering doing 100 mg on sunday morning and 100mg on wednesday evening for consistancy. While I am prescribed a high does, the doc did not admin any ai as of yet saying only to try this first and at the first sign of an E issue come to see him asap. He said he doesnt want to just cocktail a bunch of shit in to my body without seeing the effect of the testerone by itself. This protocol has been nearly 8 weeks and while I have noticed an uptick in energy it is not magical yet. I think I am on the brink however as my thought process has changed from go home and watch tv to lets go do something. Somethings working. I did not include my pre labs so I will here. Let me know if u guys have any suggestions. I am also going to check my temp this week as I am fairly certain that I have secondary hypo as my other levels I think are fairly normal. Like I said before, i have always been of very lean mass and low fat genetically but the bottom dropped out years ago and I failed to respond to it. Low T wasnt really a thing yet when it happened so I truly just figured
That old age was really gonna suck. Here are my pre test labs:


LABS

Total TEST: 168
Total FREE: not tested

Serum

FSH 3.7 mIU/ml. Ref 1.5-12.4
LH 4.6 mIU/ml. 1.7-8.6

EDTA Whole Blood

WBC 6.1. X 10E3/uL 3.4-10.8
RBC 4.61 x 10E6/uL. 4.14-5.80
Hemo 15.2 g/dL. 12.6-17.7
HCT 44.5%. 37.5-51.0 %
MCV. 97 fL. 79-97
MCH 33.0 pg. 26.6-33.0 pg
MCHC 34.2 g/dL. 31.5-35.7
RDW. 13.6%. 12.3-15.4%
PLT. 219 x10E3/uL 150-379

Serum

E 15.6 pg/ml
DHT 19 ng/dL. LOW. ng/dL. * finesteride 1 mg daily (MPB)

Lipid Panel

Chol. 190 mg/dL. 100-199
TriG. 266 mg/dL. HIGH 0-149
HDL. 39. mg/dL. LOW >39
LDL. 98. mg/dL. 0-99
VLDL. 53. mg/dL. HIGH. 5-40

DHT reference range adult male 30-85
E Roche ECLIA methodology
HDL accord to ATP-III guide HDL-C >59 negative risk CHD

Again, thank you all VERY much for the warm welcome and advice. I am looking forward to getting back in the game.

 

[Tog565]

Hey Jim thanks for the heads up and the read. Literally scared the shit out of me. Is there a better means of addressing MPB brought on by trt use? I know heredity is heredity by Im not ready to crown out yet and hair replacement is not feasible right now. Since my levels came back low on DHT, due to finesteride, would cutting my dose in half bring me to normal levels or is it worth a try? Is it not high levels of DHT that cause the hair loss. I have been on Fin for 4 months now and havent noticed any symptoms and I had hypogonad way before I started taking it. How did you first notice the syndrome and when?

 

[Jimstigator]

Sorry - but that is kind of my intention. There are entire corners of the internet devoted to fixing guys who took Propecia. Its just a nasty drug and needs to be avoided. I don't really know the details anymore regarding dosing, but as I said, its scary business and I wouldn't take it. I shaved my head and got over my slight balding.

As far as TRT causing it - mine started before TRT and has not worsened since starting TRT. Something like Rogain might be an option?

Again, sorry if I am not overly informative about alternatives - I just know one thing - Propecia screws guys up... potentially for life.

If it makes you feel any better, I took both Accutane and Propecia in my life... both scary scary meds. I am ok now, but on TRT for life.

-Jim

 

[Tog565]

Thanks Jim. It seems as if the world of males becoming bald or lacking T is a dirty little world of secrets best not to be discussed. Id rather get it all out there and help us all make good decisions. As of now I am taking Rogaine and Propecia. I am considering taking 1 mg of Fin EOD. Anyone tried? As far as 200 test causing high e, Im hoping for the best and expecting the worst. My E was in the toilet along with my test so I am hoping that T elevates me to healthy Levels

 

[Jimstigator]

Big pharma makes half a billion a year, although declining, on hair loss drugs - they spend a little bit of that to keep the public misinformed

-Jim

 

[Tog565]

Isnt that the truth!!!!! Wish it wasnt so. I like my doc so far so I am going to address it with him as now I am informed about it. Thanks a ton!!!!!

 

[Megatron28]

Hey Hiram and Mega thanks for the welcome and the info. I am hoping by maintaining this thread that I can help others as this roller coaster sucked the life outta me. I am now that dude I use to make fun of and say how in the fuck could someone let themselves go like that....now I know. Karmas a bitch. My current protocol is 200mg IM weekly with a 22g 1 1/2. I am considering doing 100 mg on sunday morning and 100mg on wednesday evening for consistancy. While I am prescribed a high does, the doc did not admin any ai as of yet saying only to try this first and at the first sign of an E issue come to see him asap. He said he doesnt want to just cocktail a bunch of shit in to my body without seeing the effect of the testerone by itself. This protocol has been nearly 8 weeks and while I have noticed an uptick in energy it is not magical yet. I think I am on the brink however as my thought process has changed from go home and watch tv to lets go do something. Somethings working. I did not include my pre labs so I will here. Let me know if u guys have any suggestions. I am also going to check my temp this week as I am fairly certain that I have secondary hypo as my other levels I think are fairly normal. Like I said before, i have always been of very lean mass and low fat genetically but the bottom dropped out years ago and I failed to respond to it. Low T wasnt really a thing yet when it happened so I truly just figured
That old age was really gonna suck. Here are my pre test labs:


LABS

Total TEST: 168
Total FREE: not tested

Serum

FSH 3.7 mIU/ml. Ref 1.5-12.4
LH 4.6 mIU/ml. 1.7-8.6

EDTA Whole Blood

WBC 6.1. X 10E3/uL 3.4-10.8
RBC 4.61 x 10E6/uL. 4.14-5.80
Hemo 15.2 g/dL. 12.6-17.7
HCT 44.5%. 37.5-51.0 %
MCV. 97 fL. 79-97
MCH 33.0 pg. 26.6-33.0 pg
MCHC 34.2 g/dL. 31.5-35.7
RDW. 13.6%. 12.3-15.4%
PLT. 219 x10E3/uL 150-379

Serum

E 15.6 pg/ml
DHT 19 ng/dL. LOW. ng/dL. * finesteride 1 mg daily (MPB)

Lipid Panel

Chol. 190 mg/dL. 100-199
TriG. 266 mg/dL. HIGH 0-149
HDL. 39. mg/dL. LOW >39
LDL. 98. mg/dL. 0-99
VLDL. 53. mg/dL. HIGH. 5-40

DHT reference range adult male 30-85
E Roche ECLIA methodology
HDL accord to ATP-III guide HDL-C >59 negative risk CHD

Again, thank you all VERY much for the warm welcome and advice. I am looking forward to getting back in the game.

You do have secondary hypogonadism.

Why do you want to check your temperature? Is that for a thyroid issue?

A 22g needle is a harpoon. No way I would want to stick a needle that big in my leg. I really encourage you to ask your pharmacist for 25g needles. Get 20g for drawing the test and 25g for injecting. Some guys even use insulin needles for injecting - I my self am testing his approach now.

Your docs approach with the AI is the correct one. Just make sure you are getting blood work regularly to see where your estradiol is at. If your estradiol becomes elevated, let us know and we can help you lower it by changing your protocol and/or using the right amount of AI.

 

[Tog565]

Man u guys are awesome!! You jumped all over this and I cant thank u all enough. Thanks for looking at my numbers and letting me know. Im new to all of this and everyone has differing opinions. The first site I went to seemed like everyone was attacking eachother for not doing exactly what they were doing. I was going to check temps for thyroid because another site said that could be a major player. I am willing to do whatever it takes to get right. As far as pinning goes, the wife is an er nurse and pins me in the butt per what the doc said. Ill do whatever you guys think is best! Good to hear the Doc was on about the E. He is hoping the test will bring my E up and I am definitely over weight so it is a concern still. I am doing another 200mg on monday and will be getting blood drawn on thursday. Can I only check TT, FT, E?

 

[Jimstigator]

TT, FT, and E (my preference being "sensitive") are definitely important. The more your Dr is willing to check in the beginning, the better. If you have the resources, getting some private blood work is wise (see Megatron's profile for links). I still check TT and E almost twice a month, 8 months into TRT. It's excessive, sure, but I love it and have learned so much about doses, injection schedules, etc.

This is a good place to learn with great guys.

-Jim

 

[Megatron28]

You need to check more than TT and E2. Read the Basic TRT Overview sticky thread for more info on TRT and what blood work to run.

Seriously. Get 25g needles for injections. Your ass will thank me.

 

[Tog565]

I will do panels more often than most but was thinking that while I am trying to dial in I should get atleast TT,FT, and sensitive E checked every couple weeks to guage whether 200 mg a week is the sweetspot or too much. Im concerned about my excess belly fat and its ability to jack E convergence so I wanna make sure I am covering that on a consistant basis. I hate to mention my ass and sweet spot in the same post but, im gonna grab the 25's and my ass thanks you in advance. I swear the wife took some sort of pleasure out of jabbing me with those lawn darts.....I have blood work next Thursday and will post results as soon as I get them. Again, I cant thank you all enough for all the help.

 

[Megatron28]

I will do panels more often than most but was thinking that while I am trying to dial in I should get atleast TT,FT, and sensitive E checked every couple weeks to guage whether 200 mg a week is the sweetspot or too much. Im concerned about my excess belly fat and its ability to jack E convergence so I wanna make sure I am covering that on a consistant basis. I hate to mention my ass and sweet spot in the same post but, im gonna grab the 25's and my ass thanks you in advance. I swear the wife took some sort of pleasure out of jabbing me with those lawn darts.....I have blood work next Thursday and will post results as soon as I get them. Again, I cant thank you all enough for all the help.

I wouldn't spend the money on Free T myself. It is interesting to check once in a while, but I don't see how it will drive your decision making process for getting dialed in. It is usually expensive to get.

You should be checking hematocrit regularly as well.

 

[Tog565]

Thanks for savin me a few bucks Mega!! I can honestly say that I feel pretty good this week. It has been 2 months at 200 p/w and I can finally say that I have woken up no problem all week and have an actual "buzz" type feeling when I get up. I have way less worry about lifes crap and an all around just better outlook. Things seem to look clearer now. WTF? I am either losing my mind or this shit has finally kicked in!!

 

[Next Level]

Thanks for savin me a few bucks Mega!! I can honestly say that I feel pretty good this week.not It has been 2 months at 200 p/w and I can finally say that I have woken up no problem all week and have an actual "buzz" type feeling when I get up. I have way less worry about lifes crap and an all around just better outlook. Things seem to look clearer now. WTF? I am either losing my mind or this shit has finally kicked in!!

Welcome to the board. I know the feeling of just "existing." I've been on TRT for just over a year now and it has truly changed my life as well. Glad you're getting back on track. Your attitude sounds great, keep it up buddy.

 

[Tog565]

Hey Next Level thx!!!!!! Ya its been a pretty rough road so far and I hope I can just get back on track. Really hoping to get back to quality of life. Just existing freakin sucks!!!!!