6 Weeks In..Waiting to Feel Better

[newtohrt]

Hello –
I have been on the Maximus conservative protocol for 6 weeks now and I honestly do not feel much of a difference so far. I have a little more energy but that is it. No change in libido (which was slim to none before) and no real differences in the gym either. I am soon to be 48 and I know that I need to lose 30 pounds, but I guess I was hoping for more of an effect? I know that everyone is different, so maybe this is as good as it gets for me…I hope not, though
I am on a 3-day split weight routine at the gym and I 30 minutes at a very fast walk on the treadmill on the days that I do not lift. (Once I lose some more weight, I will switch to jogging) My diet is not perfect but it is improving and I make sure to eat at least 180 grams of protein over four meals a day, get my vegetables, etc… I mention this just to make the point that I am not just sitting in front of the TV eating pork rinds and expecting a miracle
I pin 0.75 of test E3D, HCG the day after test 500 IU E3D, Arimidex 1MG E3D. I plan to get blood work done in 2 weeks and I will post that as soon as have it.
I have learned a lot of these forums and I thank you in advance for any suggestions.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

If your body fat is that high you need to drop Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), for now.

 

[Hardtimes]

Get that blood test done. If you do not live day by day on the constant run, or, if you do not live an above average productive life day by day, 7 days a week before testosterone, you will not be guaranteed one during your testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) 'experience.' And it was not until I got my estrogen figured out and kept on the low side, that is when my penis waved to the world.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Get that blood test done. If you do not live day by day on the constant run, or, if you do not live an above average productive life day by day, 7 days a week before testosterone, you will not be guaranteed one during your testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) 'experience.' And it was not until I got my estrogen figured out and kept on the low side, that is when my penis waved to the world.

I agree, but not with the blood test. estrogen symptoms can be treated, get the blood test when you feel good. That way, you know where you need to be to feel good. getting a shitty reading on test doesn't tell you much more than the symptoms do.

It could also simply be the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), a percentage of users report lethargy and headaches.

Some people love Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), some hate it.........

Its much more likely scenario that his E is high, due to the direct stimulation of estrogen, from Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), in the leydig cells.

This aroma is deep within the fatty tissue, a place adex can't usually reach.

IMHO estrogen plays a huge role in free testosterone, we see this studies on AI's as the treatment for Hypo, it always increases free T not just TT.

Like I said, once your diet and body fat allow you to not aromatize so much, HCG can be fun and make you feel great

Age is another big factor in the rate of Aroma, some of the older guys have to use letro with or without HCG.

 

[Hardtimes]

I agree, but not with the blood test. estrogen symptoms can be treated, get the blood test when you feel good. That way, you know where you need to be to feel good. getting a shitty reading on test doesn't tell you much more than the symptoms do.

It could also simply be the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), a percentage of users report lethargy and headaches.

Some people love Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), some hate it.........

Its much more likely scenario that his E is high, due to the direct stimulation of estrogen in the leydig cells.

This aroma is deep within the fatty tissue, a place adex can't usually reach.

IMHO estrogen plays a huge role in free testosterone, we see this studies on AI's as the treatment for Hypo, it always increases free T not just TT.

Like I said, once your diet and body fat allow you to not aromatize so much, HCG can be fun and make you feel great

Age is another big factor in the rate of Aroma, some of the older guys have to use letro with or without HCG.

He needs to get the blood test that he said he was going to get now as in, 'very soon' he is not experiencing any changes, he needs a blood test 1. to see what mg of test puts him where, and 2. to see how he is responding to his Aromatase inhibitor (AI). Just because his nipples are not sore does not mean his estrogen is not high.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

well why are we taking a blood test? we both just agreed his estrogen is probably high, so what is the blood test going to tell us?

what his T levels are? as soon as estrogen is inhibited that number will change too................... sooooooo..................

 

[Hardtimes]

well why are we taking a blood test? we both just agreed his estrogen is probably high, so what is the blood test going to tell us?

what his T levels are? as soon as estrogen is inhibited that number will change too................... sooooooo..................

"probably" is not sufficient when we are talking about someones health. Neither is the 50$ to find out. A blood test is more conclusive then us. We can not say for certain how he is metabolizing test either, or whether or not it is free by 'guessing' And how do you know as soon as his estrogen is inhibited? We still do not even know if it is high or not, hence the reason for a blood test...

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

ok you win. i lose, I've never helped anyone in the testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) forum.

even if i got one i wouldn't pay 50, i would pay 25 for saliva test, that will tell us his estrogen is high, cause that is what HCG does to guys with high BF.


Not my first rodeo....................

 

[Spongy]

my question with this is fairly simple. If an overweight person is on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and using Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), and has E levels in the low 20's, then shouldn't they keep using the HCG? Or are you saying that the aromatization caused by the HCG cannot be detected by blood tests?

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

my question with this is fairly simple. If an overweight person is on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and using Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), and has E levels in the low 20's, then shouldn't they keep using the HCG? Or are you saying that the aromatization caused by the HCG cannot be detected by blood tests?

yes- unless they are primary, if not primary use less Aromatase inhibitor (AI), or more HCG.

we don't know what his E is though, he just started. but 2 things are common because of the different responses of these meds person to person.

too much Aromatase inhibitor (AI) = bad testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) feeling

too much hcg =bad testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) feeling

ever here a guy take the cream and say he didn't notice much of a change? Aroma


It is not a one size fits all, and not everyone starts off great. its no ones fault, its a practice.


BTW HCG not only can directly aromatize, but also stimulate aroma. this guy has high bf which we know leads to more aroma, he is older which we know leads to more aroma, and he is experiencing symptoms of high or low E.

and on top of that he is not losing weight, if his E was low he would have, his joints would hurt, and he would want to get it up but it would be half steam. High E leaves you feeling lethargic, can effect prolactin, and give all symptoms he described.

Low sex drive

still fatigued

not losing fat

 

[Spongy]

yes- unless they are primary, if not primary use less Aromatase inhibitor (AI), or more HCG

Yes, they should continue using HCG. Or yes, the blood tests will not pick up the E caused by HCG. Sorry, it's late and I'm tired.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Yes, they should continue using HCG. Or yes, the blood tests will not pick up the E caused by HCG. Sorry, it's late and I'm tired.

well the more HCG you take, the more aroma is simulated. so yea you could take more.

the real question is how much Aromatase inhibitor (AI) are you taking? 20 is too low

and yes E will show on blood test, but HCG will not show as LH

I've already said too much, i gotta get to bed.

 

[Spongy]

1mg anaz e5 days for me. That was tested on the 5th day. I feel fantastic though, I try to keep between 20 and 25. It's at 20.9, test is at 738. I only do 250IU HCG E5D though.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

1mg anaz e5 days for me. That was tested on the 5th day. I feel fantastic though, I try to keep between 20 and 25. It's at 20.9, test is at 738. I only do 250IU HCG E5D though.

my point exactly, it matters much more how you feel than what the damn test says, if you feel great i wouldn't change much, you could experiment with 1,000iu a week, that is what is said needed to override suppression of exogo T ( i think 700 was exact number in study) blood test's fluctuate though, so you could have just had low reading that day.

 

[newtohrt]

Thanks

I will stop the HCG right away and see how I feel in a few days time.

Lots of great folks on this forum - I appreciate the help!

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

I wanted to add this so people realize testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) should make you feel good, but some people have more of issue regarding body composition. than just Testosterone. Also keep in mind GH attenuates your response to testosterone.

How I feel the best, and what makes me stay the leanest, is optimizing my Growth Hormone in conjunction with the testosterone. The peptides are a good choice cause they are not nearly as expensive. Must be ran properly though.

It's very common for someone who is overweight to have blunted GH secretion due to insulin resistance.

In conclusion, we have found that obese premenopausal women with decreased GHRH-induced GH secretion when compared with obese patients with GH sufficiency, have increased total cholesterol, LDL cholesterol, liver enzymes, fasting insulin and HOMA-IR, when compared with obese patients with GH sufficiency. There was a significant negative correlation between peak GH secretion and total cholesterol, LDL cholesterol, liver enzymes, fasting insulin or HOMA-IR. There was a significant positive correlation between IGF-I and peak GH and a negative correlation between IGF and HOMA-IR, but IGF-I levels were not decreased in the GHD group. We think that these data strongly suggest a role for insulin resistance in the decreased GH secretion of obesity, and the concept that the blunted GH secretion of central obesity could be the pituitary expression of the insulin resistance (metabolic) syndrome.

In accordance with previous studies [50, 51] we have found that in the presence of decreased GH secretion, IGF-I levels were normal, although IGF-I was positively associated with peak GH secretion.

we report a strong inverse association of GH peak after stimulation by GHRH in a group of obese otherwise healthy premenopausal women with increased hepatic aminotransferases. As far as we know, there has not been previously published such a relationship.

The Decreased Growth Hormone Response to Growth Hormone Releasing Hormone in Obesity Is Associated to Cardiometabolic Risk Factors

I was talking to a guy the other day, he has been on growth hormone for 12 years, it has improved his blood work in every way, he is 54.

 

[cdy2179]

Why would anyone advise against a blood test? In the last few months I've had two. This told me that 200mg e5d was putting over 1500, and blood related test we not good. I eat healthy, weigh 195 10-12% bf. So I dropped to 150mg e5d. The 2nd test last week was still too high at 1469 and this the morning of my pin day. Not only that hemacrit was like 55% Rbc and liver values were all too high and e had gone from 30s to 40s. So ive upped armidex and dropped test to 100mg e5d.

So yea get your blood tested.

On another note..... Many of us have experience headaches. Mine went away after the first week of starting test, but came back the last several weeks. Everyday a Damn headache. I gave blood last week because my blood related test were all so high, my chest also felt heavy. I immediately felt better. Breathing normal and no more headaches.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Why would anyone advise against a blood test? In the last few months I've had two. This told me that 200mg e5d was putting over 1500, and blood related test we not good. I eat healthy, weigh 195 10-12% bf. The 2nd test last week was still too high at 1469 and this the morning of my pin day. Not only that hemacrit was like 55% Rbc and liver values were all too high and e had gone from 30s to 40s. So ive hoes armidex and dropped test to 100mg e5d.

So yea get your blood tested.

On another note..... Many of us have experience headaches. Mine went away after the first week, but came back the last several weeks. Everyday a Damn headache. I gave blood last week because my blood related test were all so high, my chest also felt heavy. I immediately felt better. Breathing normal and no more headaches.

you don't need a blood test to tell you 200mg E5D will put you over 1500.

Total Testosterone
300 mg group-1,345 ng/dl a 691 ng increase from baseline

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/153723-300mg-vs-600mg-testosterone.html#post2164571

use the rule of 10, unless your E is aroma like crazy, then you were easily close to 3,000 at your peak.

I didn't advise against blood test, but its too soon for him. The HCG complicates things at this time, he needs to get that out of system before blood test, add that later.

 

[cdy2179]

That's cool. Didn't know about the rule of ten. The crazy thing is the old sponsor called 200mg e5d the standard protocol. I had already seen the sticky for 300mg vs 600mg and I know 200mg e5d is 300 a week. I should have never taken that much, its crazy that this is what they call the "standard protocol",heck its a light cycle. I started at 150 mg and chip had me up it to 200mg when I wasn't getting morning wood. If I had reduced it rather than upped my blood values wouldn't have gotten so screwed up.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

That's cool. Didn't know about the rule of ten. The crazy thing is the old sponsor called 200mg e5d the standard protocol. I had already seen the sticky for 300mg vs 600mg and I know 200mg e5d is 300 a week. I should have never taken that much, its crazy that this is what they call the "standard protocol",heck its a light cycle. I started at 150 mg and chip had me up it to 200mg when I wasn't getting morning wood. If I had reduced it rather than upped my blood values wouldn't have gotten so screwed up.

Its not like that, my father who is older, has to take 300mg a week to get an erection.

so it really does depend on the person. I do believe in titrating up though, not down.

its better to fix multiple issues to get a synergistic effect than to over do one thing IMHO