(Actually, not quite accurate - I have been using AndroForte, a scrotally applied transdermal cream for four months, but now I want to get serious.)
I have been lurking and learning for a while.
I'm 61 and I'm androgen deficient, and have discovered just how hard it is to get taken seriously.
A bit of backgound:
I have been physically active all my life. I rowed at an elite level when I was young, played squash in A grade (when it went down to H grade) in my 20s, did an Ironman triathlon on 15 months of training when I was 45, and I gym with a Personal Trainer three times a week and have done for years.
I'm 6'5", and when I was rowing I was 200lbs - that was 40 years ago, but that's an indication of my ideal body composition. When I was triathloning I was about the same, at probably about 12% body fat. Now I'm about 270lbs and I'm guessing at 30%BF.
I'm on my second marriage, and it's an excellent one! I work with my wife, and having done that for eleven years I think she's crazy enough to put up with me no matter what. We have three kids, I have an earlier two. Each of them is a high achiever - one winning the Aussie equivalent of a Pulitzer prize, one winning a university medal in law (a bit like a Rhodes scholarship), one representing our country in Asia playing soccer and singing solo in Notre Dame (the one in Paris!) and in Westminster Abbey.
By the evidence I guess I also am a high achiever, though it never seems like that to me. I have been my own boss for 20 years of my life. We have our own company selling software worldwide. We are now rated as a medium sized business (which means we miss out on the small business perks - damn).
So I do know how to put the effort in, and it is frustrating me like crazy that I can't achieve anything at the moment.
I have plenty of my own demons. After forty years I've finally given up smoking - for good, I think. I drink every day, averaging about six drinks a day. Why? Stress, relief from pressure. If I was Muslim I'd be praying half the day to deal with the pressure. In my thirties I was prescribed benzodiazipines for stress. I got hooked - up to ten tabs per day - and came off cold turkey. The medical profession had no idea. That was two years of hell and another five years of slow recovery. Benzos are the worst drug of all, period. But hey, it was prescribed by a doctor, so all good!
I have never taken any illegal drugs - period. (Ok, ok, maybe six or eight joints forty years ago, if you must know!) I have never injected anything. So, by definition, I have never done any cycles.
However I am taking a number of prescribed medications:
Whenever I do something I research it like crazy - then I do it.
I have done the ageing male test and it indicates that I'm testosterone deficient. So I go to my GP (general practitioner, i.e. doctor) and tell him that:
. . . and so on. In other words I have every Q&A symptom for testosterone deficiency. He laughs and says that I'm getting old - get over it. So I ask for a full blood test and I get it.
EVERY marker is pretty much in the middle of the range, except for testosterone (at the bottom) and cholesterol (just inside the top acceptable limit), uric acid (just over acceptable).
So I keep researching. It turns out that the testosterone level I recorded 303 ng/dL (In Aussie terms 10.3 nmol/L, 8.0-38.0) which is the testosterone level of the average 95 year old male.
Two months later I get another test: T down to 288 ng/dL, 9.8 nmol/L.
So I finally find a doctor that doesn't laugh, and I see him, though his clinic is 2,000 miles away. He prescribes AndroForte 2%, a transdermal cream, applied scrotally. And my life starts changing - briefly. I was writing a diary at the time and an entry in early January referred to "clarity of thought and speed of decision making that I haven't experienced for years". But that lasted only a short time.
I got another test on 3 January: Total Test was down to 250 (8.8), Oestradiol was at 117. In terms of how I was feeling I had almost dropped back to where I had been - aside from my scrotum looking like a pre-pubescent boy's and my breasts looking like a pre-pubescent girl's there wasn't much change. So he prescribed a tiny dose of an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and raised my T from 2% to 5% - I said that I didn't figure I could get enough AndroForte into me without rubbing the stuff in for 24 hours per day, which would definitely give people the wrong idea. (There was one improvement - no night sweats since starting on transdermal T).
Another test on 5 April: Testosterone down to 153 (5.2).
So I'm still researching, and I'm finding that scrotally applied transdermal T is very easily aromatised. That could explain the elevated estrogen (or at least the sensitive nipples).
It is also highly inconsistent as a delivery method - it spikes and drops like crazy - and I figure that could be the reason that my natural T production has shut down - or appears to have.
But it still doesn't explain WHY my T dropped in the first place. But I've found something that is a long shot but might be it - I gave up smoking.
I believe there is a feedback loop in play: once T levels start dropping that leads to lots of things which lead to lower T. But there is also something else - smokers have higher T levels than non-smokers. (Yes, I didn't believe it either, but it's in a paper which I can dig up if needed.)
So here I am, working hard and getting stressed, and I give up smoking, which leads to lower T, which leads to . . . sheer hell.
There is no option for me. I have a company to run. If I had had me working for me in the last six months I would have fired me.
Anyway, here's the plan:
In Australia the medical profession is as incompetent as anywhere else in the world, but at least we can choose our doctor, unlike some of our friends in Canada. I'm in the east, and I found a doctor in Perth, so I saw him once and had a phone consultation once. (Phone consultations aren't covered by our medical cover - but it's still a hell of a lot better system than most other places in the world!).
Now, however, I need to work with a doctor - not work against a doctor. And it looks like I have a lot of work to do in teaching one about androgen deficiency and Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT). (I had one appointment with an endo who was only interested in diagnosing me with acromegaly - a disease which causes feet and jaws to grow, for God's sake, caused by hypersecretion of growth hormone after maturity (I have a prominent jaw, as did my dad and as do my kids). He spent half the appointment trying to convince himself that I had it. I told him I was on AndroForte cream (an Aussie product, which a bloody specialist should know about), he said if I wanted him to treat me I'd have so "stop injecting that stuff" and I pointed out that AndroForte was a transdermal, for God's sake. ("That's why I said "Cream")". Yes, I had to pay for the consultation. What a dickhead. I emailed another endo and she made it quite clear that she didn't know anything about androgen replacement and didn't want to know. At least she didn't waste two hours of my day and charge me $250 for the pleasure.)
In Australia unless you get two tests below 250 you aren't able to get Testosterone. One down, one to go. The times I had blood drawn and the T was above 250 were times when I was feeling good - you don't need an appointment to get blood drawn here, so if I was feeling like crap I'd go straight to work. Next time I get blood drawn I will be feeling like crap.)
So I'll get my second sub-250 T results back and I'll be good to go.
And this is where I came in. I have been lurking for ages, and I am fans of many of you, but I have to give Cashout a special mention. Thanks heaps mate. I love your combination of commonsense and intelligence. It's so rare they go together!
I'm planning a very, very simple regime: 50mg Testosterone Cypionate twice weekly, IM or Sub-Q. From what I have read I don't believe I'll need Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) - the reason my balls are shrinking is because I am hitting them with transdermal scrotal cream and the levels areflucutuating wildly. 50mg Test Cyp twice a week should get my T levels to about 600. That's where I would like to start.
I don't want to be a bodybuilder. I just want my life back. Maybe then I'll start on the path to look just a little like Cashout . . .
So that's the quesion:
For someone like me is 50MG Test Cyp twice a week, and nothing else, a good idea?
Yes, I know it's diet and exercise too - after fifty years of exercise I do know that!
I have been lurking and learning for a while.
I'm 61 and I'm androgen deficient, and have discovered just how hard it is to get taken seriously.
A bit of backgound:
I have been physically active all my life. I rowed at an elite level when I was young, played squash in A grade (when it went down to H grade) in my 20s, did an Ironman triathlon on 15 months of training when I was 45, and I gym with a Personal Trainer three times a week and have done for years.
I'm 6'5", and when I was rowing I was 200lbs - that was 40 years ago, but that's an indication of my ideal body composition. When I was triathloning I was about the same, at probably about 12% body fat. Now I'm about 270lbs and I'm guessing at 30%BF.
I'm on my second marriage, and it's an excellent one! I work with my wife, and having done that for eleven years I think she's crazy enough to put up with me no matter what. We have three kids, I have an earlier two. Each of them is a high achiever - one winning the Aussie equivalent of a Pulitzer prize, one winning a university medal in law (a bit like a Rhodes scholarship), one representing our country in Asia playing soccer and singing solo in Notre Dame (the one in Paris!) and in Westminster Abbey.
By the evidence I guess I also am a high achiever, though it never seems like that to me. I have been my own boss for 20 years of my life. We have our own company selling software worldwide. We are now rated as a medium sized business (which means we miss out on the small business perks - damn).
So I do know how to put the effort in, and it is frustrating me like crazy that I can't achieve anything at the moment.
I have plenty of my own demons. After forty years I've finally given up smoking - for good, I think. I drink every day, averaging about six drinks a day. Why? Stress, relief from pressure. If I was Muslim I'd be praying half the day to deal with the pressure. In my thirties I was prescribed benzodiazipines for stress. I got hooked - up to ten tabs per day - and came off cold turkey. The medical profession had no idea. That was two years of hell and another five years of slow recovery. Benzos are the worst drug of all, period. But hey, it was prescribed by a doctor, so all good!
I have never taken any illegal drugs - period. (Ok, ok, maybe six or eight joints forty years ago, if you must know!) I have never injected anything. So, by definition, I have never done any cycles.
However I am taking a number of prescribed medications:
- Ramipril for high blood pressure
- A diuretic for fluid retention caused by Ramipril
- Sleeping pills to get me off to sleep
- Prozac for depression
- Codeine-based painkillers for headaches
Whenever I do something I research it like crazy - then I do it.
I have done the ageing male test and it indicates that I'm testosterone deficient. So I go to my GP (general practitioner, i.e. doctor) and tell him that:
- I'm depressed
- I have too much abdominal fat
- I am losing muscle tone
- Am far less aerobically fit than I could expect to be
- I have aching joints
- I have libido so low that I don't care it is low
- I get night sweats
- I am always tired
- I can't sleep well
- I am forgetful and moody
- I have lack of focus
- If I have to speak I can't think of the right words to say, so I can't do my job
. . . and so on. In other words I have every Q&A symptom for testosterone deficiency. He laughs and says that I'm getting old - get over it. So I ask for a full blood test and I get it.
EVERY marker is pretty much in the middle of the range, except for testosterone (at the bottom) and cholesterol (just inside the top acceptable limit), uric acid (just over acceptable).
So I keep researching. It turns out that the testosterone level I recorded 303 ng/dL (In Aussie terms 10.3 nmol/L, 8.0-38.0) which is the testosterone level of the average 95 year old male.
Two months later I get another test: T down to 288 ng/dL, 9.8 nmol/L.
So I finally find a doctor that doesn't laugh, and I see him, though his clinic is 2,000 miles away. He prescribes AndroForte 2%, a transdermal cream, applied scrotally. And my life starts changing - briefly. I was writing a diary at the time and an entry in early January referred to "clarity of thought and speed of decision making that I haven't experienced for years". But that lasted only a short time.
I got another test on 3 January: Total Test was down to 250 (8.8), Oestradiol was at 117. In terms of how I was feeling I had almost dropped back to where I had been - aside from my scrotum looking like a pre-pubescent boy's and my breasts looking like a pre-pubescent girl's there wasn't much change. So he prescribed a tiny dose of an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and raised my T from 2% to 5% - I said that I didn't figure I could get enough AndroForte into me without rubbing the stuff in for 24 hours per day, which would definitely give people the wrong idea. (There was one improvement - no night sweats since starting on transdermal T).
Another test on 5 April: Testosterone down to 153 (5.2).
So I'm still researching, and I'm finding that scrotally applied transdermal T is very easily aromatised. That could explain the elevated estrogen (or at least the sensitive nipples).
It is also highly inconsistent as a delivery method - it spikes and drops like crazy - and I figure that could be the reason that my natural T production has shut down - or appears to have.
But it still doesn't explain WHY my T dropped in the first place. But I've found something that is a long shot but might be it - I gave up smoking.
I believe there is a feedback loop in play: once T levels start dropping that leads to lots of things which lead to lower T. But there is also something else - smokers have higher T levels than non-smokers. (Yes, I didn't believe it either, but it's in a paper which I can dig up if needed.)
So here I am, working hard and getting stressed, and I give up smoking, which leads to lower T, which leads to . . . sheer hell.
There is no option for me. I have a company to run. If I had had me working for me in the last six months I would have fired me.
Anyway, here's the plan:
In Australia the medical profession is as incompetent as anywhere else in the world, but at least we can choose our doctor, unlike some of our friends in Canada. I'm in the east, and I found a doctor in Perth, so I saw him once and had a phone consultation once. (Phone consultations aren't covered by our medical cover - but it's still a hell of a lot better system than most other places in the world!).
Now, however, I need to work with a doctor - not work against a doctor. And it looks like I have a lot of work to do in teaching one about androgen deficiency and Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT). (I had one appointment with an endo who was only interested in diagnosing me with acromegaly - a disease which causes feet and jaws to grow, for God's sake, caused by hypersecretion of growth hormone after maturity (I have a prominent jaw, as did my dad and as do my kids). He spent half the appointment trying to convince himself that I had it. I told him I was on AndroForte cream (an Aussie product, which a bloody specialist should know about), he said if I wanted him to treat me I'd have so "stop injecting that stuff" and I pointed out that AndroForte was a transdermal, for God's sake. ("That's why I said "Cream")". Yes, I had to pay for the consultation. What a dickhead. I emailed another endo and she made it quite clear that she didn't know anything about androgen replacement and didn't want to know. At least she didn't waste two hours of my day and charge me $250 for the pleasure.)
In Australia unless you get two tests below 250 you aren't able to get Testosterone. One down, one to go. The times I had blood drawn and the T was above 250 were times when I was feeling good - you don't need an appointment to get blood drawn here, so if I was feeling like crap I'd go straight to work. Next time I get blood drawn I will be feeling like crap.)
So I'll get my second sub-250 T results back and I'll be good to go.
And this is where I came in. I have been lurking for ages, and I am fans of many of you, but I have to give Cashout a special mention. Thanks heaps mate. I love your combination of commonsense and intelligence. It's so rare they go together!
I'm planning a very, very simple regime: 50mg Testosterone Cypionate twice weekly, IM or Sub-Q. From what I have read I don't believe I'll need Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) - the reason my balls are shrinking is because I am hitting them with transdermal scrotal cream and the levels areflucutuating wildly. 50mg Test Cyp twice a week should get my T levels to about 600. That's where I would like to start.
I don't want to be a bodybuilder. I just want my life back. Maybe then I'll start on the path to look just a little like Cashout . . .
So that's the quesion:
For someone like me is 50MG Test Cyp twice a week, and nothing else, a good idea?
Yes, I know it's diet and exercise too - after fifty years of exercise I do know that!
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