Anyone who uses HGH or IGF read this


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Copy and pasted from another board.

The more you investigate IGF-1, the more questions you have. When I first was able to access this stuff, I was ecstatic, because it was a product which was shrouded in so much legend. I couldn't wait to begin experimenting with it. But, not long after, all the questions began to arise. The more I learned, the more questions I had. What had initially been excitement turned to chaos, because I wasn't getting the answers I was anticipating. Then, my source got busted, and the experimentation had to stop. That was really frustrating. Ultimately, I got access to the stuff, again and I restarted my examination. But still, there are questions....

OK, so let's begin with Heathen's questions, in bold text:

Do you know anybody that has done a longer cycle like 6 months to a year and what were the results like?

It is clear that use of IGF-1 for more than 4 weeks, continuously, will result in the production of binding proteins by the user. These render the IGF-1 useless, the instant it enters the body. It is unknown to me whether the binding proteins will also go after the user's own IGF-1, or if they are specific to the R3 long version, which is what we are injecting. The health and wellbeing of those with whom I work is my top priority, so I never supply more than 4 weeks' worth of the IGF, in order to prevent any possibility of longterm harm from IGF usage.

I am always on the lookout for IGF-1 threads, in every board I hang out on. From those that I have read, it appears that the effect of the IGF-1 fades beyond 4 weeks, which makes sense. The problem is that most of these observations are by users who are also using AAS, and/or hGH, and/or insulin, and/or etc. So, the waters are muddied by the miscellaneous chemical soup which these cycles occur with. The longest IGF-1 cycles I have seen on boards is 3 months on, continuous. I cannot see how anyone may ascertain the full value of IGF-1, when it is used in a complex combination. I am certain there are beneficial synergisms, but drawing useful conclusions of them, in uncontrolled situations, is difficult.

All my current useful observations have been conducted by the use of IGF-1 without any pharmacology other than IGF-1.

How long were the cycles that you observed?

Four weeks, maximum. I require 4 weeks off time, then we can go on for another 4 weeks, if desired, and so on.

Is there any danger that could occur with long-term use that you can determine?

There is some discussion and lab data(very little), which indicate risk of cancer. This is undoubtedly the case with ANY growth factor or hormone, including AAS.

I have a female client I used IGF-1 with, and I learned, after her cycle, that she has a fibroid. Well, if I had known she had a fibroid, before her IGF-1 cycle, I NEVER would have permitted her use of a growth factor. Fortunately, the fibroid did not enlarge, post cycle. As things happened, she mis-understood her IFG-1 dosage, and injected about half of what she should have. It was not until we were about 2 weeks into the cycle, that I discovered the error. So, she was underdosed, and that is prolly the reason that her fibroid did not respond. But the literature is clear, with use of hGH, that fibroids do grow with exogenous growth factors.

Again, it is dangerous to use any Growth Factor, in the presence of a cancer or atypical tissue growth.

The other risk, referred to, above, is the production of binding proteins. If these translate into binding proteins for endogenous IGF-1, there is potential for harm.

....using insulin along with the IGF-1 help inproves the halflife of the IGF and that the 2 should always be cycle together. Any thoughts on this?

I think it's pointless to use slin with IGF-1. IGF-1 R3 long already has a long halflife. Longer than any slin. Insulin will not increase the halflife of IGF-1. Insulin and IGF-1 both have insulin-like behaviors. So, perhaps it is the insulin-like behavior you are trying to lengthen. Well, if you do that, all you will do is increase the likelihood of side effects from the insulin(hypoglycemia).

The only time you might want to use IGF-1 together with slin is if the user is slin resistant, due to excess use of hGH, or some other situation. Otherwise, forget the slin.

What is aqueous buffer soultion? Is this any different then acetic acid?

The aqueous buffer solution can be a water-based acetic acid solution(very dilute) or an HCl solution(again, very dilute). GroPep is recommending the HCl buffer. I've experimented with certain other additives, based upon my biochem lab experience, which I believe renders the IGF-1 more effective. I won't discuss details of this aspect, because I do not have sufficient qualitative and statistically valid data to prove my belief, were I to be engaged in a scientific debate.

I was also under the impression that Bacteriostatic water could be used to reconstitute your IGF-1 but it would not be the best choice because it would degrade over time and elemental conditions. Is this incorrect?

We are looking for certain things, when reconstituting IGF-1. We want the peptide chains to unwind and dis-entangle. We do not want the peptide chains to break down. We do not want the peptide chains to attach themselves to the storage or injection equipment, or to improperly attach themselves, within the human body.

Key to this is control of pH, and also it's ionic environment. GroPep recommends a particular pH, ions, and ionic concentration. So you see the GroPep literature specifying 10 mM HCl solution, with a final concentration of 1 mg of IGF-1 per ml of solution.

Bacteriostatic water(or BA for that matter) is not the correct pH or ionic environment. Could you use Bacteriostatic water, just the same? You will not achieve the goals, stated above, in properly reconstituting IGF-1. Some chains will unwind and become active. But some chains will break down and others will stick to the walls of the storage and handing equipment. The most visible proof that this is so, can be seen by reading the posts of others, in other boards. These guys are using anywhere from 50 to 200 mcg of IGF-1 per day, to achieve some response. I have seen good response from as little as 15 mcg per day in athletes. I'm using the same raw IGF as the others, and injecting it the same way. The difference is in the preparation.

But my understanding of the best way to reconstitute IGF-1 is to use the IGFBP-3 carrier protein soultion (which you can buy with the IGF-1 if you buy it from a legedimate source). Is this correct?

Unnecessary. Much is misunderstood as to what the actual use of the raw powder is intended for. The most commonly used version of the raw powder is "media grade". What this is used for is an industrial technology called "cell" or "tissue" culture. Here, very specially bred cells are grown in a very sophisticated laboratory environment, in large quantities. The cells live in a nutrient bath, and they are provided with various specialized growth factors to make them grow in certain ways and at certain rates. It turns out that IGF-1 long R3 is a superb growth factor for certain types of tissue culture. That is what most of the IGF-1 long R3 powder is sold for.

Tissue culture systems are not living systems. The cells grow in an artificial environment, and not a living environment. Artificial environments do not contain serum or carrier protein. In order for the IGF-1 to function properly, a carrier protein, or serum, is needed. However, the human body is a living system, and the blood supply is very much loaded with serum! So, you do not need to supply the IGF-1 with any carrier protein or serum.

Does the IGFBP-3 need to be rehydrated with BA (bacteriostatic water) or shold you use acetic acid?

I strongly recommend that you go with GroPep's protocol, as mentioned above:

Use a 10 mM HCl solution, and make the final concentration to be 1 mg of IGF-1 per ml of solution.

Now, understand, we are talking about the necessity for considerable precision, here. A bit high on the acid concentration, and the pH gets tilted the wrong way. If you add the IGF-1 powder to this solution, it will be destroyed on contact.

In my own work, for injection, I first have the user draw 0.1 ml of Bacteriostatic water into the slin pin, then pull whatever dosage of IGF-1 is desired. The Bacteriostatic water has little opportunity to mix with the IGF-1. Upon injection, the Bacteriostatic water shoves in all the IGF-1, first, then flushes the rest of the pin out, as he/she injects the remaining contents of the pin. There is no loss of IGF-1 in this manner.

based on your observations....would IGF-1 be a superior glycogen loader post workout when compaired to insulin? don't seem to see as many of the negative side effects of IGF-1 as compaired to insulin.

I have yet to see or learn of anyone having gone into a dangerous hypoglycemia from any dosage of IGF-1. That degree of safety is unmatched by insulin. Due to it's long term effect upon blood glucose levels, and it's different mode of activity, nobody gets fat using IGF-1, regardless of diet. Again, that cannot be said for Insulin. I dislike insulin, for myself, and due to it's cumbersome behavior, as well as with others who used it, whom I have worked with. There is no doubt in my mind that insulin is prolly the most powerfully anabolic drug, but I think it's a pain in the ass for most, and can result in serious bodyfat accumulation in many users. I think the bodyfat part is often intentionally not talked about, when the joys of insulin are discussed. IGF-1 is not as powerful as Insulin, but it sure is easier to take and manage. In my previous post, I have discussed it's advantages, as I see them. I am certain that others will differ, particularly those with the miraculous tales of gaining 15 pounds of solid muscle, while losing 4 percent bodyfat, in a 4 week IGF-1 cycle. BWaHAHahaha!

....any additional thoughts would be very helpful....

I have failed to mention a possible side effect for IGF-1. It makes many users feel very hot. I recall using it on myself, during a winter. I was going outdoors in a t-shirt and shorts in 30 degree weather. At night, I would set the heat in my bedroom to 60 degrees, and even at that, a light bedsheet was too much. It reminded me alot of using DNP, but I won't go into that saga!

Another possible side effect occurs with the higher dosages. It is believed that the gut has many IGF-1 receptors. In the cases of higher dosages, I have had reported(and I experimented myself at 50 mcg per day, which was waaay too much for my version of IGF) very frequent visits to the toilet. Like, every hour! This is not good, but it illustrates the sensitivity which certain tissues have for IGF-1. The problem resolves itself, when the dosage is lowered.

I think it best to use IGF-1 in a manner similar to insulin; a divided dose, with one injection just before meal one, then the second one, post workout. This will keep you very hungry, all the time.

....I was a little shocked that Bill didn't do a write up on IGF-1 in his updated Anabolics 2004....

I don't blame him for that omission. There is soooo much confusion over this stuff. And, in this business, if you take a public stand on a topic, someone will come along with ammunition to blow your head off. In my case, I'm not some famous person, who makes money by selling my point of view. So, I can say what I believe, and others are welcome to believe what they like, and it won't affect me.

I have had a real evolution of opinion over IGF-1. Early on, I believed that it was quite an anabolic drug. Now, I have re-aligned my view. I still believe that IGF-1 has valid and effective uses. But having settled upon a reliable method of preparation, and having used it in enough "controlled" situations, the picture is much clearer to me now.

I think the famous public experts in this business really need to re-visit this IGF-1 topic, apply some science, and get beyond the hype. And, by all means, stay away from making observations on genetically superior athletes(and those who love to blow everything out of proportion), and trying to apply that to everyone. My best knowledge comes from working with the average fellas you see in the gym.

The only specialist I know of, who has a rational point of view on IGF-1, is Dave Palumbo. If you are looking for additional points of view, turn to him.

I wanna say something else, in connection with IGF-1. I am known here as a promoter of short cycles. I have long searched for the short cycle which was the most natural and easy going on the body. Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) are OK, but they are harsh on the body in many ways. I wanted to get involved with examining IGF-1, in a big way, because I had hoped it really was a kind of short cycle Holy Grail. A minute dosage, a simple subcutaneous injection, no stress on internal organs, few obvious side effects, and moderate muscle growth. It seemed like something you could cycle for years, and just grow and grow. It all looked really great, and I wanted to believe in it, very much.

Well, it's not quite the Holy Grail. I think what I still need to do is learn how to take better advantage of the insulin-like characteristic. For any of you who have had insulin experience, IGF-1 is like that, only better. Of all the guys I worked with, who had previously used slin, they liked IGF-1 better.

So, I think we still have a ways to go with IGF-1. That's why I have not written it off. I only offer a caution. With time, we are surely gonna learn how to maximize it's benefits, which are definitely real. I still have so many questions I want to answer.

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