capping - error in final caps

[insaned]

Tried to cap for the first time...
after trying it, i really understand now that this will gonna be my last call for orals! it takes toom much time, and very innacurate compared to liquid... even suspensions seem better!

now,

I wanted to cap 200caps of nolva @ 20mg

used the cap-m-quick size 0 with tamper

used dextrose for filler!

filled 50 caps with dex, tappered a bunch of times till full, and wighted the dex in the caps

dextrose=22.4 gr
did the same to nolva,
nolva=18.3gr

mixed it well with the upgrading partial mixes....

now,

22400mg dextrose/50caps=448mg dex per cap
18300/50=366mg nolva per cap

wanted 20mg per cap

(20mg nolvawanted x 448 mg dex-cap)/366mg nolva-cap = 24.481 mg of dextrose to take out per cap

366mg - 24.481 = 341.519mg that is the dex needed per cap

341.519 x 200caps = 68303.8 mg total dex for 200 caps
20mg nolva x 200caps = 4000 mg total nolva for 200caps

now, it seems my math it's correct, at least to my eyes...
the thing is, when i capped the stuff well tappered, it gave me 152 caps instead of 200 caps!!

what's wrong here?

now, i got a shitty dose per cap...
4000nolva/152cap=26.315mg per cap

 

[insaned]

anyone?

 

[GymLift]

20mg nolva x 200caps = 4000 mg total nolva for 200caps

what's wrong here?

now, i got a shitty dose per cap...
2000nolva/152cap=13.16mg per cap

Until the end, your math appears to have been good as far as I can tell right now.

Did you use 2,000mg of nolvadex or 4,000mg of nolvadex?

If you used 2,000mg of nolvadex, then that might explain what happened here, because you were supposed to use 4,000mg based on your math.

If you did use 4,000mg then I don't know what happened, but you should then have ~26mg of nolvadex in each cap.

 

[GymLift]

My only suggestion now is to send those 'bad' caps to me and make another batch.

 

[insaned]

Corrected the mistake, I used 4000, I just wroted wrong in the post!

It's seems also correct to me... do no.. maybe I tappered way too much, lol, but that's not very likely!

ahaha, It wouldn't worth send you the caps compared to the powder price

 

[GymLift]

Something you might want to consider, just incase you didn't realize.

Technically, a 20mg Nolvadex tablet has 30mg of tamoxifen citrate.

When using raw powder, you need to increase the dosages by 50% just like you have to do when buying it from a research company.

So, if each cap has ~26mg in it, then maybe that isn't so bad.

Still need to figure out what went wrong, of course.

 

[insaned]

Yes, i know that but thks for the tip anyway!
This caps will help when using 40mg (3 caps), but i hate this kind of innacuracy...
I still don't understand what went wrong, because i tappered everything to the extreme, the dextrose, the tamox c and the final mix!

 

[BigRonWannabee]

gotta run 50 caps at a time, weigh the powder per run ONLY, not all at once. Common sence man.

 

[GymLift]

This caps will help when using 40mg (3 caps)

Your new caps have ~26mg in them, right? Because you used 4,000mg of tamoxifen citrate rather than 2,000mg?

 

[insaned]

gotta run 50 caps at a time, weigh the powder per run ONLY, not all at once. Common sence man.

I didn't understood your sentence dougo....
I've read well the stickies and other sites and they all teach as a did! I presume they are wrong then?

I've have weighted 50 caps of dextrose and weighted 50 caps of nolva!
And made the math for 200 caps of 20mg nolva... Then weightened dex and nolva aiming for the 200caps@20mg... You're trying to say that I should only do the math for 50 caps at a time?
Even if it was a margin of error per cap doing the math for 200 insted of 50, that shouldn't happen with so mutch caps, that's ~25% error, and i don't believe it should be so mutch...

 

[insaned]

Your new caps have ~26mg in them, right? Because you used 4,000mg of tamoxifen citrate rather than 2,000mg?

yes, they have 26mg tamoxifen citrate, it should be ~17mg tamoxifen.
2x17=34mg, 3x17=51!
noticed now they woun't help no, but it's better more than less..

this caps are driving me crazy...

 

[BigRonWannabee]

lets say a cap holds 500mg dextrose. You wanna make 30mg caps of nolva:

500-30 = dex per cap x 50 = 23.5g

30 x 50 = 1.5g

mix in a baggie and pour onto empty caps. Distribute evenly, tamp if necessary and ur done.

 

[BigRonWannabee]

yall think TOOOOOO much

 

[insaned]

lets say a cap holds 500mg dextrose. You wanna make 30mg caps of nolva:

500-30 = dex per cap x 50 = 23.5g

30 x 50 = 1.5g

mix in a baggie and pour onto empty caps. Distribute evenly, tamp if necessary and ur done.

I didn't went for that simpler process because it migh gave me more error!
honestly, fuck the caps, the liquid form is wayy easier! I'm only going to do this in extreme cases like var... to much work for some caps

 

[GymLift]

lets say a cap holds 500mg dextrose. You wanna make 30mg caps of nolva:

500-30 = dex per cap x 50 = 23.5g

30 x 50 = 1.5g

mix in a baggie and pour onto empty caps. Distribute evenly, tamp if necessary and ur done.

Weight != Volume

Accordig to insaned's calculations, 1g of nolva takes only 81% of the volume of 1g of destrose. That's a significant difference.

Since the nolva is a relatively small percentage of the total volume, the difference is minimized. But say you wanted 200mg of nolva in each cap ... would would easily be overodsing each cap and not filling as many caps as intended.

 

[GymLift]

yall think TOOOOOO much

Damn, now you start'n to sound like my wife.

 

[BigRonWannabee]

Weight != Volume

Accordig to insaned's calculations, 1g of nolva takes only 81% of the volume of 1g of destrose. That's a significant difference.

Since the nolva is a relatively small percentage of the total volume, the difference is minimized. But say you wanted 200mg of nolva in each cap ... would would easily be overodsing each cap and not filling as many caps as intended.

Yes but thats why you need to do 1 run at a time. If you have 30mg x 50 = 1.5g nolva to distribute per 50 cap run... just make sure the tamps are very slight so that by the time all the caps are full with no extra they are basically even. No waste - who cares about 81% volume to weight - just get the 50 caps full of mix and your done. I dont see the hard part, I dont see the inaccurate part.

Listen if you start letting your noggin take over your going to fuck everything up. Yes, overengineering is the cause of many blunders and the kitchen chem hobby is no exception. There needs to be some simple mathematics and thinking involved sure, but Im going to assume we here are all somewhat above the average intelligence.

Ill put it like this and I want you guys to critique my method and find the inaccuracies, and difficult parts:

1) weigh 50 empty caps
2) weigh 50 caps with dextrose, tamped a little bit
3) Subtract line 1 from line 2
4) figure out how many m's per cap of active you want...multiply by 50
5) subtract line 4 from line 3
6) mix line 4 with line 5 in a plastic baggy, pour onto 50 empty caps in a capmquick
7) distriubute evenly until all the powder is in the caps.
8) drink beer

OR for the math wizards:

Say we find that 450mgs dextrose fits in 1 cap.
We want 30mg nolva caps
450-30=420
420x50 dextrose MIXED with 30x50 nolva
pour onto caps
distrubte evenly
drink 12oz beer

 

[BigRonWannabee]

just as an aside - I know that the 1g dextrose has a different volume than 1g X hormone - but it doesnt matter because we can tamp to our advantage. Mix is light, tamp less. Heavy batch, lots of unexpected volume. Jeez better tamp the caps more.

The object is getting the hormone mixed with powder and distributed into caps, period.

Ill get off my cap-m-quick box now

 

[BigRonWannabee]

ONE more thing i promise - insaned you just tamped em too much. Over time the extra tamp adds inaccuracy that wouldnt be there if its done run by run.

 

[RJ]

OK, first off, I have to agree with Doug on this one. but I have a few side notes.

1. Let's stop referring to it as Nolva. What you are mixing with the filler is TAMOXIFEN CITRATE, not Nolva. So 20mg of tamox = 20mg of tamox.
2. I can do 200 caps at a time, or 50 at a time, doesn't matter, but for accuracy sake, i would agree that doing one run at a time is the best way to do it.
3. If you are going to make multiple runs, get you a sheet going with all the different hormones you cap for future refernce. For example, I know that 50 caps of "1" cap-m-quik caps takes ~16g.
Now, with say Oxymeth, i know that I can subtract my mg/cap from the total weight and be good to go. But with Stan caps, I know it is a bit lighter hormone, so I use ~16.5g of total weight, which means more filler. This may sound confusing, but its works great for me.

A cap is a pain in the ass, but it can work great if you just don't overthink it. Kind of like all homebrew errors. Usually made because you overthunked it. lol

Liquid orals will always produce more accurate results sure, but when you can't be drawing out with a syringe in the middle of your work day, its nice to have some caps you can just pop and go.

Good luck.

***side note***

DougE, Madine and i had an unreal time with her new girlfriend the other night down in Orlando. Holy Christ.... you should have been there. (in spirit of course... or holding a camera. hah)