Clomid and Nolvadex Only Results

[Ziggy01]

Hello Gang, new to the board. I wanted to give you some results with the use of SERMs only to increase T. I am 36, 255 lbs and 30% BF :-( I have never taken any anabolics. For the last 5 years my T levels have been between 350 - 400 ng/dL. I wanted to see if SERMs as has been recently reported could help raise my T levels.

Experiment 1: Clomid 50 mg ED for 5 days, 25 mg ED for 10, then 12.5 mg ED for 1.5 months. Normal diet as w/o SERM
Results:
-T raised to 875 ng/dL (almost doubled my baseline level)
-loss some weight at first but then got massive bloat and weight gain around the end of 20 days. I mean weight gain like overnight, and it is hard to get rid of.
-Libido went down
-Strength and endurance increased
-Joints felt more lubricated.
-T was retested ~ 2 months after last dose and the T was back to baseline levels

Experiment 2: Nolvadex 10 ng ED for 30 days with Arimidex EOD @ 0.25 mg.
-Same results as with clomid; T about doubled again
-Still gained massive weight and bloat (was hoping the arimidex would kill the bloat but didnt)
-T dropped after end of use again
-Libido went down
-Strenght and endurance went up

So the SERMs did raise my T, while beit only during use, but the side effects were not worth it for me. I didnt think that I would gain weight and water while using these. Has anyone else experienced this? I will be going to an endocrinologist to see if there is something that could be diagnosed for cause of the low T. I wanted to try SERMs first because I really dont want to have to take exogenouse testosterone if I dont have to. Since these two compounds raised my T levels would it mean that my boys are okay but just arent receiving the signals they need to produce my T from the pituitary (i.e. lazy pituitary?)

Sorry I dont have my blood work data. I would like to see my LH and FSH levels as well as E2 but that will be next month.

Thanks for any advice

 

[Alpin]

what was your T on Nolva/ADEX combo ?
curious why you tried the two and not just one or the other...
I would of stayed on low dose clomid if I were you...
it was working for you....
what were your pituitary hormone levels like ?

 

[Ziggy01]

The results with nolva/arimi gave about the same T level (~900) as with clomid only. I took with arimidex to see if the water bloat/weight would be minimized by reducing the estrogen. The arimidex did not seem to help. The increased T levels while on clomid was awesome but I seriously would gain 10-15 puffy lbs within a 1.5 week time when I would take clomid. My caloric intake did not change during my time on vs not on.

I do not have my LH or FSH levels tested yet. My TSH was 1.01 (range 0.5 - 4.2). T4, free was 1.2 (range 0.8 - 1.8). T3 total was 114 (range 60 -181). IGF-1 was 120

 

[Alpin]

The results with nolva/arimi gave about the same T level (~900) as with clomid only. I took with arimidex to see if the water bloat/weight would be minimized by reducing the estrogen. The arimidex did not seem to help. The increased T levels while on clomid was awesome but I seriously would gain 10-15 puffy lbs within a 1.5 week time when I would take clomid. My caloric intake did not change during my time on vs not on.

I do not have my LH or FSH levels tested yet. My TSH was 1.01 (range 0.5 - 4.2). T4, free was 1.2 (range 0.8 - 1.8). T3 total was 114 (range 60 -181). IGF-1 was 120

50 mg Clomid ED for a 1.5 weeks made you gain 10-15 puffy pounds ?
I ran HCG 1500 i.u. /week and never gained that for 3 months.....
I'm lost on that one.
could be increased water retention in your muscle tissue....
Well, the results are your balls work!
Stay on it
50 mg EOD is what Apollon orders for you....imo
You can take breaks of one to 2 months in between treatments when you run it for 4-6 months at a time....
Don't entertain hypogonadism bro....get 'er done!
not necessarily a bad thing...

 

[Ziggy01]

Thanks for the advice APOLLON. If my endo just wants to put me on test then I will give the clomid a try again. I am glad that I knows the balls still work. After I stopped the clomid, they shrunk up pretty significantly. I was getting an ache in the right one but was just thinking it was the atrophy? I suppose this would be another question for the doc.

 

[Alpin]

Thanks for the advice APOLLON. If my endo just wants to put me on test then I will give the clomid a try again. I am glad that I knows the balls still work. After I stopped the clomid, they shrunk up pretty significantly. I was getting an ache in the right one but was just thinking it was the atrophy? I suppose this would be another question for the doc.

dull ache or sharp ache ?
I noticed shrinkage as well when stopping ADEX monotherapy. (way back)

 

[Ziggy01]

A dull ache and it is not constant but is predominantly in the right

 

[JT19]

What were your free t levels? I know clomid can actually kill libido at higher doses. Staying on a lower dose of it might be enough to elevate T without sides. I dunno worth a shot

 

[Alpin]

What were your free t levels? I know clomid can actually kill libido at higher doses. Staying on a lower dose of it might be enough to elevate T without sides. I dunno worth a shot

I don't know what you're waiting for....
get that GP to put you on 50 mg 3 times a week....
Lots of docs won't even look at Free T for diagnosing low T....
They almost always diagnose you with Bio Avail. T labs...

 

[Ziggy01]

Here are some of my other lab results:

Total T: 339 (348-1197)
Free T: 8.7 (8.7-25.1)
IGF-1: 123 (83-233)
TSH: 1.01 (0.5-4.20)
T4, Free: 1.2 (0.8-1.8)
T3 Total: 114 (60-181)

The doc had blood drawn today to check my LH, FSH, and prolactin levels. I talked to him about clomid but he looked like he didnt have a clue what I was talking about. He is willing to try if my other levels look low enough. I do think the 50 mg 3x a week is the best bet at this time.

I do not know how to interpret my other blood results above besides the T....does everything else seem reasonable?

Thanks

 

[Alpin]

Here are some of my other lab results:

Total T: 339 (348-1197)
Free T: 8.7 (8.7-25.1)
IGF-1: 123 (83-233)
TSH: 1.01 (0.5-4.20)
T4, Free: 1.2 (0.8-1.8)
T3 Total: 114 (60-181)

The doc had blood drawn today to check my LH, FSH, and prolactin levels. I talked to him about clomid but he looked like he didnt have a clue what I was talking about. He is willing to try if my other levels look low enough. I do think the 50 mg 3x a week is the best bet at this time.

I do not know how to interpret my other blood results above besides the T....does everything else seem reasonable?

Thanks

I assume you are in the U.S. ?
In Canada the docs would not even look at you for TRT unless you were below 173 ng/dl...

 

[Rida5d]

Interesting
Could clomid used for long time at low dosage?
I'm at 460 TT and I want to fight till the end before TRT

 

[Alpin]

Interesting
Could clomid used for long time at low dosage?
I'm at 460 TT and I want to fight till the end before TRT

460 ain't bad...

 

[Rida5d]

460 ain't bad...

Brother I'm 38.. My TT Last year was between 460-490
I was looking at few charts here and there and looks like 460 is the TT OF guys at 60's
What do u think?

 

[Ziggy01]

Updated lab results
My LH, FSH, Prolactin results came in today:
LH: 5.3 (1.7-8.6)
FSH: 5.4 (1.5-12.4)
Prolactin: 9.7 (4-15.2)

Well everything is within the norm. Do you think I should still push for clomid since it did raise my T levels? Perhaps my estrogen levels got out of control when I was last on clomid which caused the weight gain?