Curious how amounts are calculated

[Animalized]

Okay, using this calculator that starks posted once:

calculator

Lets use the example that we want to make 100ml of oil @ 300mg/ml. If I take the final numbers it gives me they total up too 107.5 ml's.
Does it always make it so you go over the amount wanted or is there some volume lost in the process? Just always been curious how this works out.

 

[ChrisWho?]

I always end up with close to that amount extra also. What kind of filtering are you using? It could be a bunch of things like the exact powder weight as we usually go off a universal weight of .75.

 

[Animalized]

I was just using the numbers off the calculator as an example. Most times so far when I'm done, I have pretty much what I wanted but I noticed with those numbers it actually puts you quite a bit over 100ml. It's not really a big deal, I was more or less just curious how they come up with those numbers

 

[ChrisWho?]

I usually end up with about 3-5ml extra with every 100ml I brew, and thats sticking to the numbers on the calc.

 

[darkrid3r]

I always end up with 5+ ml myself too, and the calculation gets worse with volume. What this is doing is bringing down the MG per ML ratio. I had some of my stuff tested. 217 and 223 respectively.

I posted this a few days back http://www.steroidology.com/forum/chemical-study/613972-always-end-up-too-much.html, i had to up my weight on the prepacked sust250 to .85
If your dealing with a long ester IMO its heavier (bigger actually) and it physically takes up more space. If your doing high MG per ML 250+ it gets worse....In theory.

If its sust, E, C I always put my powder weight at .85
Its going to be 104.5 ish in the calculator. You short your oil by 4ml before it gets warmed, this oil sits in a syringe for later use.
Filter all your gear, and use the last 4ml to clean the filter.
In theory, you will still have oil in the filter when you throw it away, 4ml of oil without gear.
You SHOULD end up with 100.5ml of finished gear. Your last bottle may be under dosed due to the cleaning process.

 

[Pinnacle@Rep]

Make test prop at 100ml and 100mg/ml then with those same powder weight calculations make test enanthate at 100ml and 100mg/ml and watch what happens, there will be a big difference in the amounts that you come out with.
The reason for this is what a few have mentioned, there is a difference in the Powder weight in solution. Meaning that the powder is the equivalent of x amount of ml's once added to a brew. Test E is equal to x and Test Prop is equal to y. So there is a difference of weight. 4 grams of Test E will displace amounts in ml's differently than 4grams of Test prop in ml's.
Once you have played around with this for a good bit you will know which compounds you need to alter the .75 on the powder weight part of the calculator up to .80 and .85 or down to .70 or .65 give or take.
Just something at this point to learn by trial and error.

I thought about compounding a list and posting it showing the normal powders we use and their respective DISPLACEMENTS so that people could use a different powder weight number besides a normal .75 because for the person who wants EXACTS.... .75 is not exact!!!
Having said that, I could not find (in any easy searching) what showed powder weights of particular powders or how to calculate this whole thing. I never really put much effort in it though. Just too busy to get that detailed when I have learned by trial and error what numbers to use with the stuff I've brewed.

 

[Rastas]

Good thread. It makes a lot more sense now.

 

[darkrid3r]

jstarks i think between you and I we could come up with such a list.

TEST ENANTHATE .85
TEST CYPINATE- .8
TEST PROPINATE .65
TEST DECANATE- .8
TEST ISOCAPROATE .75
TEST UNDECANOATE .85
TEST PHENYLPROPINATE .8
SUSTANON 250 .85

Im missing some of the decas and Tren A and E

 

[ChrisWho?]

jstarks i think between you and I we could come up with such a list.

TEST ENANTHATE .85
TEST CYPINATE- .8
TEST PROPINATE .65
TEST DECANATE- .8
TEST ISOCAPROATE .75
TEST UNDECANOATE .85
TEST PHENYLPROPINATE .8
SUSTANON 250 .85

Im missing some of the decas and Tren A and E

Great info Bro, this would make a perfect sticky once we have the majority of the compounds. I'm going to start figuring some out also.

 

[Animalized]

ya, makes a lot more sense now. It's interesting to see the different weights too. Good info guys

 

[Pinnacle@Rep]

If I get alot more free time on my hands then what I currently have, I will contribute to this project. Until the holidays are over unfortunately I don't beleive I'll have any time over answering emails and questions here and things, but I'll get around to it. Great effort Dark and to the rest of you. This is what this section needs!!!

 

[smadizm1]

Got this from another form. This is what I use, maybe this can clear displacement issues up.
What was that Newbie? You thought it was 0.75 or 0.85 mL's per gram of powder. Oh how wrong you were. Ask yourself how can every steroid with so many different ester weights, weight the same? They can't. So I have done what I always do, save the day with my articles.

Lets look at the chart. I have only added a short list for now, I will update it as I have time.

Densities of Common Steroid Powders (Dry Weight) per mL aka CC aka cm^3.

Testosterone Base - Density 1.12g/mL
TestosteronePropionate - Density 1.10g/mL
Testosterone Enanthate - Density 1.06g/mL
Testosterone Cypionate - Density 1.10g/mL
Testosterone Decanoate - Density 1.04g/mL
Testosterone Isocaproate - Density 1.07g/mL
Testosterone Phenylpropionate - Density 1.13g/mL
Trenbolone Acetate - Density 1.18g/mL
TrenboloneEnanthate - Density 1.10g/mL
Nandrolone Decanoate - Density 1.04g/mL
Masterone propionate - Density 1.07g/mL

Ok but what does that all mean? It means when we add 1 gram of powder to our solvent mixture (that's the oil, BB, BA mix) it will displace the mixture at this amount:

Testosterone Base - 1g Displaces 0.893mL
TestosteronePropionate - 1g Displaces 0.909mL
Testosterone Enanthate - 1g Displaces 0.943mL
Testosterone Cypionate - 1g Displaces 0.909mL
Testosterone Decanoate - 1g Displaces 0.962mL
Testosterone Isocaproate - 1g Displaces 0.935mL
Testosterone Phenylpropionate - 1g Displaces 0.885mL
Trenbolone Acetate - 1g Displaces 0.848mL
Trenbolone Enanthate - 1g Displaces 0.909mL
Nandrolone Decanoate - 1g Displaces 0.962mL
Masterone Propionate - 1g Displaces 0.935mL

Now for the love of god PLEASE STOP using 0.75 or 0.85mL per gram. It won't matter much if you make 10-50mL but when you make a lot... you will screw up dosages and ratio's.

 

[dialtone]

you know...I hear you guys, it is nice to be exact but I honestly don't think it matters that much. Everyone wants to get their gear to exactly 250mg/ml (or whatever) as if their body won't react if it was 248mg/ml. These differences are insignificant to say the least. Even if you make 100's of mls, you may end up with 10mgs less per ml in the worst case, but even that difference won't matter to your body.

This is like the guys that lick the inside of their shaker after they drink a shake because they MUST have 40g protein bc of 39g isn't enough...

 

[ChrisWho?]

you know...I hear you guys, it is nice to be exact but I honestly don't think it matters that much. Everyone wants to get their gear to exactly 250mg/ml (or whatever) as if their body won't react if it was 248mg/ml. These differences are insignificant to say the least. Even if you make 100's of mls, you may end up with 10mgs less per ml in the worst case, but even that difference won't matter to your body.

This is like the guys that lick the inside of their shaker after they drink a shake because they MUST have 40g protein bc of 39g isn't enough...

LOL, I agree Dialtone.

Regarding the weights posted above, they look a little too heavy. Base and prop are ion the .60 range, not .9

 

[darkrid3r]

Gerneral rule here guys,

If the ester is long it takes up more space, if the ester is short it takes up LESS space.

The fact of the matter is your getting more test in prop than any other product.
ML per ML, shot for shot

 

[ChrisWho?]

Gerneral rule here guys,

If the ester is long it takes up more space, if the ester is short it takes up LESS space.

The fact of the matter is your getting more test in prop than any other product.
ML per ML, shot for shot

Yep if you make prop at 100mg/ml, your getting 89mg of test, the rest is ester weight. With test E or long esters, when making 250mg/ml, you'll get 170mg of test.

The longer ther ester, the heavier the ester weight and less actual test you get. With my test base, 100mg equals 100mg. Shits a bitch to work with though lol.

 

[platinum1331]

This ws an amazing reply... but at the same time appreciate the accurate displacements sometimes piece of mind is the most important.