DIY TRT vs. Clinics vs. Hunting For a Doctor Who Cares??

[Rex32]

Hey Guys,

To start off - this forum is an invaluable resource and I can't thank everyone enough for their posts!

About me - I'm 29 and was put on TRT (Androgel) when I was 25. My thyroid thinks my body is producing enough T, but it isn't... That causes my Estrogen to Test ratio to be very high and I gain wait in my thighs, and chest - which I've worked very hard to slim down over the years to no real avail. I switched to Test Cyp injections about 2 years ago, but have been off it for about a year due to a lack of health insurance and

I'm now at a crossroads. I have health insurance again so I could resume my TRT protocol through my doc, but he isn't all that wise on the topic and just gives me a vial of Test Cyp and I'm supposed to do 100mg every two weeks - obviously that doesn't happen and I increase it. He won't prescribe an AI or HCG and I'm really frustrated with spending a lot of money to go to doctors that tell me they can't help me. My test level (when not on TRT) has always been below 200. Anywho here is what I'm thinking...

I think I may order a few vials from Naps of Test Cyp, as well as some Arimidex and some Anavar to give a try in a couple months. I would do HcG too but I didn't have any issues with the size of the boys when on TRT before and I despise needles.

As far as dosing, I did 200mg a week about a year ago and it was honestly a bit high I think. I will most likely do 150mg E6D of Test Cyp, .3mg Adex EOD, and eventually add 60 - 100mg of Anavar.

What do you guys think of me putting this protocol together myself? I'm confident from reading online and a few friends experiences that Naps stuff will be fine. I can pay out of pocket to do labs, I just honestly think it is the most cost effective route. I would use a web based clinic but IncreaseMyT is $600+ for a two month supply (last time I checked) and the other big site (blanking on name) requires you be 30+ and I'm about 10 months shy of that.

When I was on TRT before my doc gave me HUGE 1.5" needles - I think 21ga I can double check. A friend of mine used a large insulin needle - but still much smaller than the ones I was using. what would you guys recommend and do you know of a good source? If I could use a smaller needle I would probably split my dose to 75mg E3D to reduce the roll coaster effect.

Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you very much guys, I can't express how much I am excited to get back on TRT. I've had ZERO sex drive, drove a relationship into the ground, am exhausted all the time, gained weight - yuck all around I just am a much happier and healthier person when my levels are accurate!


Thanks,

Rex

 

[anzel]

Dont ask for a source on here. You wont get one. And dont run the var. TRT requires a dialing in process and you wont dial it in proper if you add var to the mix.

 

[SJC]

21G is lke sticking a brookstick in your ass. I used 21G to draw and 25g to shoot. I.5 inch needle is ok for some not all. I use 1.5 for my glutes and 1 for my thigh.

Stay off var.

Dont worry about an AI until you need it, doesn't mean dont have it but use it when necessary. Probably wont need to do EOD either I go .25 E3D. I noticed at about week 8 I started getting High E2 sides.

$600 for 2 moths seems real high too me considering the cost of Test Cyp and a 10ml bottle can last you 3 months if your doing 100mg a week. I would also do E3D injections

As long as you keep up on your bloodwork and continue to ask questions I don't see anything wrong with doing it on your own

 

[IHI]

I initially looked into making my own regimen, until I talked to doc, and then seen price to do my own regimen and about shit a brick LOL. Took me 7 months and 4 doctors to get on my TRT but it's been a life changer and while I was getting impatient towards the end, it was worth it...and priced ALOT, ALOOOOT cheaper than trying to do it "online". I was started on 100mg/wk of test cyp, doc's orders, so I ran that for a few months to let body readjust, we did labs day before my next shot to get my trough/low point. Then 2 days after my shot, to get my peak...just to see what it was doing for me.

It did help immensely, went from beginning 210 test score, to 576 low/967 high. So after we got that info, I asked doctor, now can I please try splitting my dosage in half and doing twice a week shots, every 3.5 days at half dosage, aka 50mg/twice a week because I can honestly tell a surge of well being a few days after my single weekly shot I would do on Wed., and by sunday I felt the blahs coming on until next shot....so he agreed to it.

I've kinda gone rouge in a sense, and am doing 70-75mg twice a week and WOW, now I feel good all week long, kind of like my old self before all this shit started, and I'm loving it!! Best part, only costs me $75 every few months for EVERYTHING, and that's with NO insurance coverage since mine wont cover TRT, assholes.

Best thing is just keep reading this board, soo much good info and it really armed me well as far as questions to ask so doc couldn't blow me off due to not being somewhat educated on the subject. So again, I say push to try and find a doc, and like you've read/will read on here and other TRT stories, it may require going to a few different docs to find one upto snuff that can take care of you. Once I got hooked up with specialist, out of big hospital a few hours south of me, he made me go through a pleather of tests to see if they could find a root cause, which they never did and just prescribed it to see what would happen for better or worse and monitored me/kept in contact to see how it was going...it was a long, trying road, but so worth it to feel this good again. I think other than the sense of well being back to a normal persons level, I've just about had as much sex with my wife in the last month (off third shift and training on first shift for a month) than we've had in the last year, and that's no exaggeration; and not because we're finally sleeping together for a change, but because I WANT too...which hasn't been the case for years.

I haven't been lifting all summer though, and hoping in 2 weeks to get back after it through the winter months again just due to working 16-18hr days all summer (3rd shift real job, and then work all day doing side jobs since closing my business), but hope now that my body is more normalized, I wont get so pissed off working my ass off in the gym with little to tiny gains for the effort put forth.

 

[Rex32]

Guys thank you so much for the feedback! My GP used to just prescribe me a vial of Test and let me inject myself at home and he would refill the vial every 30 days. I'm thinking I'll make an appointment with him and see how it goes.

He will likely do whatever extra blood work I suggest - what all should I ask for? I honestly think I was okay before without the AI, but I do have the effects of high estrogen (like I said before) and it really upsets me and makes me extremely self conscious. I've been struggling with having chest fat for years, honestly it is so incredibly frustrating and embarrassing

So here's what I'm thinking - go to the doctor next week (insurance kicks in Sept 1st) and get the advanced T labs, and whatever else you guys advise... And worst case I'll get some AI myself.

I know this is a long shot, but anyone know of any good places in Minnesota?


Thanks Again guys!!!


-Rex

 

[Megatron28]

Guys thank you so much for the feedback! My GP used to just prescribe me a vial of Test and let me inject myself at home and he would refill the vial every 30 days. I'm thinking I'll make an appointment with him and see how it goes.

He will likely do whatever extra blood work I suggest - what all should I ask for? I honestly think I was okay before without the AI, but I do have the effects of high estrogen (like I said before) and it really upsets me and makes me extremely self conscious. I've been struggling with having chest fat for years, honestly it is so incredibly frustrating and embarrassing

So here's what I'm thinking - go to the doctor next week (insurance kicks in Sept 1st) and get the advanced T labs, and whatever else you guys advise... And worst case I'll get some AI myself.

I know this is a long shot, but anyone know of any good places in Minnesota?


Thanks Again guys!!!


-Rex

Why would you ever leave that doc who gave you a new vial every 30 days? He sounds awesome! I live in Minneapolis. Can you PM his info to me? I would give you my doc's info but he isn't taking new patients anymore.

 

[Rex32]

And thanks for the input on Var, I thought it would be a good booster once I'm a few weeks in to loose some fat and put on some muscle. I recently started a desk job and left the restaurant biz so I'm a little worried the pounds are gonna start to pack on - esp given my T is so damn low!

 

[Rex32]

I left because I lost my job, insurance - everything and the vial of T was $100 and I simply couldn't afford it I don't think he is taking new people either but I will ask when I'm there next week.

 

[SJC]

the vial of T was $100

The 30 day vial you spoke of before? Damn! A 10ml vial is usually $35-$55 depending on source. Hell my Pharm 10ml vial is $45 with insurance and lasts 3 months.

 

[Jimstigator]

I must have it made! I get a 10ml vial monthly for $10 w/ insurance. The Dr requires me to discard every 30 days and refill.

I would push this with your Drs... straight from the CDC website. CDC - Multi-dose vials - Safe Practices for Medical Injections FAQs - Injections Safety

When should multi-dose vials be discarded?
Medication vials should always be discarded whenever sterility is compromised or questionable.
In addition, the United States Pharmacopeia (USP) General Chapter 797 [16] recommends the following for multi-dose vials of sterile pharmaceuticals:
If a multi-dose has been opened or accessed (e.g., needle-punctured) the vial should be dated and discarded within 28 days unless the manufacturer specifies a different (shorter or longer) date for that opened vial.

-Jim

 

[Megatron28]

I must have it made! I get a 10ml vial monthly for $10 w/ insurance. The Dr requires me to discard every 30 days and refill.

I would push this with your Drs... straight from the CDC website. CDC - Multi-dose vials - Safe Practices for Medical Injections FAQs - Injections Safety

When should multi-dose vials be discarded?
Medication vials should always be discarded whenever sterility is compromised or questionable.
In addition, the United States Pharmacopeia (USP) General Chapter 797 [16] recommends the following for multi-dose vials of sterile pharmaceuticals:
If a multi-dose has been opened or accessed (e.g., needle-punctured) the vial should be dated and discarded within 28 days unless the manufacturer specifies a different (shorter or longer) date for that opened vial.

-Jim

The issue if you push this is that most docs will prescribe a 2ml vial instead and those generally are my more expensive on a ml basis.

 

[Jimstigator]

The issue if you push this is that most docs will prescribe a 2ml vial instead and those generally are my more expensive on a ml basis.

Ahhh! Makes sense.

-Jim

 

[methos0123]

The issue if you push this is that most docs will prescribe a 2ml vial instead and those generally are my more expensive on a ml basis.

I've gotten 1 ml vials before...10 of them. lol

 

[Rex32]

Labs came back, don't have the full file in front of me just what the nurse on the phone told me. My test level was 72! No wonder I have zero sex drive, jesus. He wants me to start back at 100mg every two weeks which was my starting dose last time and do labs in two weeks. I'm thinking I may do 100mg every week or call and leave a message for him and ask if that is okay because 72 is so crazy low, no??

He just prescribed the test cyp for now, what else should I ask for?

I also want to get all the labs I want on the next run, he said he will order whatever labs I want - what all should I ask for? I can't thank you guys enough for your help!

My doc does the same with the discard after 30 day thing.

 

[Spunkey71]

Labs came back, don't have the full file in front of me just what the nurse on the phone told me. My test level was 72! No wonder I have zero sex drive, jesus. He wants me to start back at 100mg every two weeks which was my starting dose last time and do labs in two weeks. I'm thinking I may do 100mg every week or call and leave a message for him and ask if that is okay because 72 is so crazy low, no??

He just prescribed the test cyp for now, what else should I ask for?

I also want to get all the labs I want on the next run, he said he will order whatever labs I want - what all should I ask for? I can't thank you guys enough for your help!

My doc does the same with the discard after 30 day thing.

When doing your injections, try and pin every 3.5 days, so if you are pinning 100mg a week pin 50mgs on Sunday Morning and another 50mgs on Wednesday evening and then repeat every week. This will allow you to maintain steady hormone levels and not have a peak a couple days after you pin and then crash as the test clears your system.

If you doctor allows you to pin 100mgs a week it might be a good idea to have an AI on hand in the event you start feeling any sides from high E2. Many guys myself included also pin HCG which is doctor prescribed, this will keep you from being completely shut down while on TRT and keeps the boys from shrinking up.


Hope this helps!

 

[IHI]

Labs came back, don't have the full file in front of me just what the nurse on the phone told me. My test level was 72! No wonder I have zero sex drive, jesus. He wants me to start back at 100mg every two weeks which was my starting dose last time and do labs in two weeks. I'm thinking I may do 100mg every week or call and leave a message for him and ask if that is okay because 72 is so crazy low, no??

He just prescribed the test cyp for now, what else should I ask for?

I also want to get all the labs I want on the next run, he said he will order whatever labs I want - what all should I ask for? I can't thank you guys enough for your help!

My doc does the same with the discard after 30 day thing.

Brother, first thing you have to do is get that doc of yours off this once every two week kick, it'll just keep things screwed up due to the test cyp half life of 3.5 days. Once a week at 100ml dosage is far better. TWICE a week at 50ml is better yet since it'll give an even dosage all week long. I started, per doc orders at 100ml/week...then here's the proof of the half life outside of all the documented research and experience, When after 6 weeks of being on the medication, I had to get a lab done ONE DAY BEFORE my next scheduled weekly shot, to measure my trough/lowest level...since that is when the testosterone was done wore off. Then TWO DAYS AFTER my scheduled shot I had to get another lab drawn to measure PEAK level/high level. There was almost a 400 point difference from my low to my high in just a 3 day span......this is why you read over and over and over from guys doing TRT to split the dosage in half and do them twice a week since it completely gets rid of the lowest of lows and the highest of highs, and just puts you in the happy range all week long, week after week. And you will feel the change as the stuff wears off even doing the once a week shots, seriously. Two weeks, you'll feel like a goddamn rock star for a couple days after your shot, then it'll be a consistant downward plummet until your two weeks is up and your ready for the next dose.

You shouldn't ask for anything else if your doing this for honest health/low T only. Your not going to be injecting 200-500ml/week like the big boys do as a baseline along with a host of other chemicals to aid in supporting beast mode. It will take about 4-6 weeks for your body to readjust and settle in once you start your regimon weather doing the 100ml/wk or 50ml twice a week....but after 4-6 weeks THEN do a lab and see where your at, and that will tell you how your body is reacting to it and then changes can be made from there since you now have a baseline. I was at 100ml week per doc orders, did his schedule and retested and he was happy with levels, I felt good, but I asked if I could split dosage to try twice a week to get rid of the roller coaster ride, and he agreed. So now I meet with him Tuesday and I'm sure will do another lab to see how this current twice a week of 65ml I'm taking does...but I can tell you I feel amazing, sooo much better than before, but I'm unsure of what me giving myself that extra 15ml is really going to do for total T count...but I no longer have a roller coaster ride of up and down feelings of well being, and feel very good overall, something I haven't felt in YEARS, and I'm loving it.

As for the big bottle and tossing after 30days, I dunno, mine lasts about two months or so and I feel no ill effect when surpassing the 30 mark despite what you may read or somebody tells you, I'm thinking it may be a way to make more money in the big picture for pharm companies since they get to charge probably as much or more since your now using 2 vials vs 1.....extra topper/seal, extra container, extra cost to bottle twice as much vs a single....so don't let that keep you awake at night on the 30 day and toss it LOL.

 

[Rex32]

Guys seriously thank you so much for the honest, well written responses. No one is bashing me for being kind of a newb, or being irresonsable and just stopping TRT when my health insurance ended about a year ago - just so helpful. This has been a very shy topic for me. I thought it was an issue when I was 21/21 (8 years ago) but it took me 4 YEARS to bring it up to my doctor. Now I'm much more comfortable, but getting this awesome advice - I can't thank you guys enough.

As far the 30 day thing, I just used that to get a refill quicker bc 1)I knew my health insurance was going to end and 2) I was doing 200mg wk when prescribed 100mg every two weeks. Like I said in my other post, my doctor is very chill and is happy to let me build a protocol that works he just doesn't have much experience in this area of medicine.

Just got back from the pharmacy - picked up a 10ml Vial 200mg/ml, 5 25ga 5/8" needles, 5 23ga 1" needles, and 10 18" 1.5" pins to draw with. I think the 18 is even too big to draw, I ended up squirting a good amount of test out when I pulled the needle out of the vial!! BLAST!

I did .75ml, I know more than I was prescribed but I just wanted to do a little booster amount. My labs are scheduled for two weeks from tomorrow, should I tell my doc I did extra and do another 100mg next week (so double what he prescribed) or play it safe and not inject anything else until after my labs? I'm leaning towards inject nothing - then my levels will be low and he will pump the dose.

I'm sold on doing 2x shots a week at a split dose, and I know my dr 1) won't care and 2) I do it at home so how would he know anyway.

Would you guys be able to advise what panels/labs I should have run when I do the labwork on the 20th? I want to do everything possible relating to TRT so I can have a good solid picture of whats going on.

As far my labs from my test on Tuesday, they mailed the results so I will post those early next week when they arrive. They verbally told me my Test level was 72 though. Scary low no??

I might start a journal on this topic as well, maybe it can help someone else in my shoes!



Thanks,

Rex

 

[Rex32]

Duplicate post!

 

[IHI]

Don't feel bad about asking for advice, nobody on here was born with knowledge, it was learned. I learned a ton on here and it really helped me when shuffling through my own doctors to find a good one, and really prepared me to ask intelligent questions and then be able to understand what they were saying in response to my questions, which was also part of the doctor choosing, but it sounds like you have a good one, you just need to settle into routine to get a bseline.

What that means, CONSISTENCEY!! STOP jumping doses back and forth, if this is for a true TRT, my advice is going to be the same as most knowledgeable doctors start a new TRT patient on, start with 100ml/week and run that 100ml/week for 4-6 weeks. Then after the 4-6 weeks schedule labs, get your blood drawn the day before your next shot (keep doing shot at same time of week) and then 2 days after your shot. This will give you and your doctor relevant information of how the testosterone is affecting and how your body is processing it, THEN you can chose to adjust dosage going forward. IF you can get the supplies to do twice a week 50ml dosages, just start that right now since twice a week is where you want to be going forward in your life since this is a life long commitment. BUT you need to run it for 4-6 weeks to allow your body to adjust and then, and only then after that 4-6 weeks will you get a lab done to see what your body is telling you and make adjustiments going forward.....but I cannot stress this enough, you HAVE TO BE CONSISTANT with dosages, none of this 75ml this week, 100ml next week, then 50 ml twice a week....pick 1 thing, and stick with it for 4-6 weeks and run blood.

See how that was a repeating sequence of the same thing, I did that to emphasis the importance of consistency.

18ga is what I use to drawn, and never had oil blow out. Drawn the new empty syringe back to the dosage your going to draw, push needle into stopper but don't let needle go into the oil, depress plunger to pressurize the bottle, then invert the bottle, and start the pull back on the plunger to suck in the oil into the syringe. I pull about 25ml more than I'm going to dose, then I press plunger back towards the dosage I plan to inject, this helps purge all the air bubbles out of the oil. Once it's juuuuuuuuuuuust about to the amount I need to inject, flip the bottle back over and then withdrawl the needle. Then I'll remove and cap the draw needle, install my 23gax1" injecting needle, and that weeeeee lil bit extra oil over my injecting dose will be used to preload the new empty injecting needle so I don't get any air shot into my leg as I found any little bit of air gives me long lasting Charlie horses for a week...doing it the way I described I no longer get any sore muscles where I inject.

I'm too lazy to copy and paste, but go to Megatrons introduction to TRT on the home page of this TRT section, in it there is a list of things to have checked, you can copy and print it out to give to doc for your first real life lab after running a regimon for 4-6 weeks.

Guess I'm kind of scratching my head as to why anybody would order yet another lab in 2 weeks, yes you should see a higher T number, but 4-6 weeks gives your body time to adjust and settle in, and that is important. You get a lab done in two weeks, it's going to be a false/positive baseline so to speak since your body still is adjusting, it'll take 2-3 weeks just for your body to shut itself completely off from producing it's own testosterone, and then spend the next 2-4 weeks adjusting to the synthetic testosterone....hence waiting 4-6 weeks after beginning regimen before getting a lab drawn.

So slow down a bit, this isn't a race, and sadly this does take a little time to "settle in" but then, and only then can you get viable information that you can then use to make an adjustment from.

 

[Megatron28]

Two weeks is too soon for lab work. Wait a month.

Don't take higher test doses to jump start the process. That is actually counterproductive in that is spikes your estradiol and makes you feel worse. You are looking for nice even levels.

Good luck! You should be feeling a lite better in 3-4 weeks.