First Cycle Aborted From Estrogen / Gyno Issues - Need Advice on Second

[snowpatrol123]

Doctors won't take the whole gland out typically.

I haven't had the surgery myself but I know someone who has, and claims the glands were completely removed. I'm aware this could lead to "sunken nipples" but without staring awkwardly at the guy's chest I can say it looks pretty normal. So - he could be wrong, or maybe in his case they did pull the glands out entirely and it worked out better than expected.

 

[DreDay187]

I haven't had the surgery myself but I know someone who has, and claims the glands were completely removed. I'm aware this could lead to "sunken nipples" but without staring awkwardly at the guy's chest I can say it looks pretty normal. So - he could be wrong, or maybe in his case they did pull the glands out entirely and it worked out better than expected.

I know some who claimed he same thing but for the most part that's all it is, a claim. I'm sure some have had it completely removed for whatever reason but by far the vast majority of surgeries will never remove the entire gland.

I'd also suggest not staring awkwardly at the guy's chest as he may mistake it for an invitation lmao!

 

[DreDay187]

Any advice on how he should move forward from here if he wants to try and rerun his cycle without gyno surgery?

If he doesn't want the surgery the other options with the most evidence supporting them in the medical literature is raloxifene and tamoxifen.

 

[SilverBackGorilla]

From what I understand, the gyno is very mild. The big question is how to redo the cycle without aggravating the gyno he does have. Maybe test prop instead, that way the sides come on faster?

 

[DreDay187]

From what I understand, the gyno is very mild. The big question is how to redo the cycle without aggravating the gyno he does have. Maybe test prop instead, that way the sides come on faster?

Make sure he uses a good AI and enough of it verified with bloodwork. I prefer adex as is works faster and is more effective at keeping estradiol levels low. Some prefer aromasin but it is a weaker AI, more expensive and requires higher dosages. Choice is up to him bc both work in the end provided they're real and not bunk.

If the gyno gets aggravated just have him do a 20mg dose daily of tamoxifen or 30mg dose daily of ralox for the duration of the cycle. Should be more than enough to keep it at bay and if ran for long enough has a great chance at reversing the gyno or at least minimizing it substantially.

 

[SilverBackGorilla]

The Adex he's using is U.S. Pharmacy grade, no question there. Interesting what Megatron said about maybe crashing his estrogen before the test even started working. I believe his estrogen was 12 on the Ultrasensitive panel. He is NOT on TRT, his estrogen is just that low to begin with. Should he finish his PCT and then try again?

 

[Megatron28]

The Adex he's using is U.S. Pharmacy grade, no question there. Interesting what Megatron said about maybe crashing his estrogen before the test even started working. I believe his estrogen was 12 on the Ultrasensitive panel. He is NOT on TRT, his estrogen is just that low to begin with. Should he finish his PCT and then try again?

I don't think we have the exact chronology, but it sounds like enough time has passed where it may make the most sense to finish PCT. If OP is patient, it would probably be wise to get some raloxifene to run after PCT until the gyno is reversed/reduced. Once that is completed OP could assess his risk tolerance for a new cycle and run ralox or tamox concurrently with an AI.

 

[tritonica]

I appreciate all the responses. I checked tonight and am positive there is gyno resulting from this cycle. Here is my prior bloodwork:


TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL 489 250-1100 ng/dL
TESTOSTERONE, FREE 47.0 46.0-224.0 pg/mL
TESTOSTERONE,BIOAVAILABLE 109.0 L 110.0-575.0 ng/dL
SEX HORMONE BINDING GLOBULIN 47 10-50 nmol/L
ALBUMIN,SERUM 5.1 3.6-5.1 g/dL
ESTRADIOL, ULTRASENSITIVE EZ LC/MS/MS 18 < OR = 29 pg/mL

For the first week I took adex at .25mg EOD. At that point, after my third pin, I first had gyno symptoms and took adex, and Nolva. It seemed under control at .5 mg ED so I continued with the next pin. Two days later I had gyno symptons that came noticeably quicker. I stopped the cycle here.

The next three weeks was a battle. I would take 0.25mg of adex at a time when I started noticing symptoms and they would subside in about four hours. If I didn't catch it early enough they tissue would become extremely tender. It was taking up to 1mg of Adex per day in addition to 20mg of Nolva.

I have one week of PCT left then I planned on running Raloxifene. In retrospect I should have gotten blood work but it felt like my hormones were on a roller coaster and wanted things to stabilize first. I'm disappointed about ending the cycle and would like to try again but am really nervous. Adding in Raloxifene, and Nolva from the start makes sense. Is there anything else like running a shorter chain ester or lowered dosage in order to decrease the risk?

 

[Megatron28]

You could run test prop which would allow you to "bail" on the cycle sooner. You could try a lower dose of Test at first and work your way up to the point where you experience sides and then back off perhaps.

Run ralox or tamox while on cycle. Just one though. I don't think running both would be recommended.

Get frequent blood work to see what is going on with you while on cycle.

Perhaps try aromasin instead of arimidex to see if that works better.

Lose more body fat to lower the rate of aromatization.

 

[Norsegod]

This is gonna be brief and to the point...

Gyno CANNOT be cured by meds, can be reduced or put into a dormant state, bit it WILL return when enough androgens are present

The ONLY option to eliminate gyno is surgery

Using the term reverse when referring to treatment isn't really correct, but reduce is possible... remember running AI's is a way to prevent the gyno from increasing, but will NOT get rid of it

Actually, dre is correct. There are several studies that showed 40mgs of nolva for up to six months reversed gynecomastia significantly, and in a rare few it actually eliminated it completely. Nolva is what I have always used.

I am currently running a gram of prop a week with some other things and I recently had a flare up. Started nolvadex at 40mgs a day and it shrunk it within 24 hours.

Next time use prop as Megatron stated so you don't have to wait weeks for the test to clear and from the start run 40mgs of nolvadex a day.

Adex also didn't work for me so I switched to aromasin. With that said,I obviously still got a flare up, but it was nowhere near as bad as when I was using adex and it also shrank exponentially more quickly.

Good luck and keep an eye on it with regular blood work