First cycle starting today, have some questions

[Underground]

i know what a dipshit. some how in his delusional mind he seems to think i backed off cause i was proved wrong or something. he has it all figured out so i just decided to quit wasting my time.

RJ has been running gear since this little tykes grandma was getting banged by the milkman. For some reason though he seems to know exactly what is going to happen on his test cycle. whatever i guess you cant blame him, he is just a stupid fucking newbie thinking test is some magic pill. He will learn and we will say we told you so.

i wish i cared less about people injecting hormones into their body without really understanding the gravity of what they are doing. I just feel bad for guys that make uneducated decisions. for every single steroid there is, I can name you a negative for every positive you can name. this goes for ancillaries too.

If your going to do something like inject steroids, you need to make it worthwhile. anything you ever do in this game has a risk/reward factor. wether they want to believe it or not. the goal is to make the reward much higher than the risk, this asshole has it backwards.

PS i will say one last time, your diet is not going to make you gain very much on your cycle. maybe 2 lbs when its all said and done.

Do you really only have one metaphor to say "he's been doing that a long time" besides the nonstop repeated grandma shit. If guess if you are a dumb ass meat head, being original is tough.

Anyway, you say 2 lbs gain, we'll see. After this cycle I think i'll be the one laughing. At 160 lbs going from a diet of 2000-2500cal a day with not enough protein to 3500cal a day with actual protein and less running, more working out, with the help of test, we'll see who was right. If I don't notice any muscle gain after a few weeks, then I just up my calories and protein some. You are acting like i'm on the totally wrong path when we are talking about only 500 calories a day difference.

We both know I got a solid beginner plan if I stick to it, so cut the bullshit about "only water gains" and shit. In a few months I'll be on here laughing at your dumb ass for saying 2 lbs.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

you sure will be laughing at me 6 weeks into your cycle but i will be laughing at you when you piss out 8 of the 10 lbs you gained during post cycle therapy (pct), if you even know how to do that correctly.

you can sit here and say "only 500 difference" all you want.

you said "between 3300-3500" so we are actually talking about 700 cal difference. that last 700 cals may be the amount above your maintenance on a cycle. without your just maintaining.

You can also sit here and say "i will get 3300 cals ED" but the problem is you will not. you will shoot for 3300 cals but some days you will only get up 2900.

you can sit here and try to convince yourself all you want that you have "a solid plan". I am telling you that you DO NOT HAVE "a solid plan"

i dont know why im even fucking still answering this retarded thread, only because my GF and daughter are sleeping and the tren keeps me up to 3am every night.

the bottomline is you have a rude awakening coming about your pathetic LITTLE diet. Im sure if i were to dig deeper your trainign routine sux. Im not picking on you personally, it is very common. this is why people are suppose to wait until they have a well rounded knowledge base of dieting and training. when i say that i dont mean reading from some fucking site or a book or listening to my friend. everyone is completely different so it takes time to see what you will respond to most effectively. you have to try things many different ways.

Im not saying you shouldnt cycle, I am not the type to judge people for the reasons they want to use. the fact still remains your "solid plan" kind of sux.

for some reason it is stuck in your tiny brain that since your diet went from 2300 cals to 3300 cals that you will see results. you probably will see results, just not results worthy of messing with your endocrine system. People do not realize how little the medical community actual knows about the endocrine system. if you think for a second that steroids are safe you are wrong.

 

[shuttlegoose]

this thread is pretty funny. I just joined the forums and i can see who the knowledgable people are. I try not to post to much if i can search on my own to avoid asking FAQs.

On topic with this thread if DET and RJ still want to respond to my question.

I am also starting my very first cycle on monday. I have a good base from what i started at around 3 years ago. I have suffered a lot of injuries that have limited my ultimate goals, but i have now become happy with what i can do with my body weight and genetics.

I believe my diet along with my cycle will give me the best gains, so what food tips do you have on getting close to that 4000 calorie mark? I am going to make sure i have at least 3 shakes a day, but on top of that i want a good clean diet and get the majority of the calories from REAL food. Thanks in advance for your knowledge in all the other posts i have read!

 

[Underground]

you sure will be laughing at me 6 weeks into your cycle but i will be laughing at you when you piss out 8 of the 10 lbs you gained during post cycle therapy (pct), if you even know how to do that correctly.

you can sit here and say "only 500 difference" all you want.

you said "between 3300-3500" so we are actually talking about 700 cal difference. that last 700 cals may be the amount above your maintenance on a cycle. without your just maintaining.

You can also sit here and say "i will get 3300 cals ED" but the problem is you will not. you will shoot for 3300 cals but some days you will only get up 2900.

you can sit here and try to convince yourself all you want that you have "a solid plan". I am telling you that you DO NOT HAVE "a solid plan"

i dont know why im even fucking still answering this retarded thread, only because my GF and daughter are sleeping and the tren keeps me up to 3am every night.

the bottomline is you have a rude awakening coming about your pathetic LITTLE diet. Im sure if i were to dig deeper your trainign routine sux. Im not picking on you personally, it is very common. this is why people are suppose to wait until they have a well rounded knowledge base of dieting and training. when i say that i dont mean reading from some fucking site or a book or listening to my friend. everyone is completely different so it takes time to see what you will respond to most effectively. you have to try things many different ways.

Im not saying you shouldnt cycle, I am not the type to judge people for the reasons they want to use. the fact still remains your "solid plan" kind of sux.

for some reason it is stuck in your tiny brain that since your diet went from 2300 cals to 3300 cals that you will see results. you probably will see results, just not results worthy of messing with your endocrine system. People do not realize how little the medical community actual knows about the endocrine system. if you think for a second that steroids are safe you are wrong.

Listen I've seen some of the first cycle plans alot of newbs have on here, and for you to say this cycle "sucks" is just dumb. I already said if I didn't see the gains I wanted, I would just up the calories/protein. I understand that eating enough on my cycle will be the hardest part, and if all you advised was to up the calories/protein some, then I would have thanked you for your advice. Instead you guys jumped on my ass telling me I shouldn't even be thinking of a cycle, and that I just need to go to burger king, and will only get water gains if I do try, and shit like that, instead of trying to actually help me with my first cycle.

If anything, the motivation I have to not waste my time, money, and my risk my health for no gains on this cycle is all I need to make it work.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

this thread is pretty funny. I just joined the forums and i can see who the knowledgable people are. I try not to post to much if i can search on my own to avoid asking FAQs.

On topic with this thread if DET and RJ still want to respond to my question.

I am also starting my very first cycle on monday. I have a good base from what i started at around 3 years ago. I have suffered a lot of injuries that have limited my ultimate goals, but i have now become happy with what i can do with my body weight and genetics.

I believe my diet along with my cycle will give me the best gains, so what food tips do you have on getting close to that 4000 calorie mark? I am going to make sure i have at least 3 shakes a day, but on top of that i want a good clean diet and get the majority of the calories from REAL food. Thanks in advance for your knowledge in all the other posts i have read!

well you should start your own thread and give some stats and all that stuff and im sure the guys will be happy to help.

since this guy is wasting thread pages i will give a littl bit of an answer to get you started.

The first thing i need to say is if you want a diet tailored to you specifically 3J is the guy to talk to. He is the best at. He is the moderator in the diet forum and for good reason he knows more about food then i could even pretend too.

I have kind of learned my body and i eat differently every single day. Im a big guy though so im routinely over 4k cals.

chicken and fish are great but i get the best gains when im eating red meat. lots of potatoes, pasta........

as long as your eating when your not hungry and you have AT LEAST 5 BIG meals a day, that is a bulking diet. I love making tacos because i can control the portion of each ingredient. my tacos are bursting out of the shell with GB . i get creative and put avacadoes and all kinds of other shit in there too

like RJ says when bulking its good to cheat often. going to buffets and just smashing everything in sight. hitting up taco bell and spending 15 bucks just on burritos.

the cheat days are especially true for people that are hard-gainers. im not a hard-gainer at all.

if you head over to the "my cycle forum " there is a lot of good info there cause you will see tons of cycles that were started with "clean" diets and 8 weeks in they are not happy with the results. so they have to dirty it up to get the results they are looking for.

when i say clean i mean chicken and brown rice everyday, thats not gonna cut it on a bulk. bulk diets should be very diverse.

then the OP in this thread actually asks in his first post what supps he should be taking? its like are you kidding me? you dont even have that figured out yet and you just started your cycle today.

supps are important because they fill the holes in your diet on a given day. it is very hard to get 100% of the nutrients you need on a daily basis. the foods you would have to eat would be so far apart you would spend all day getting it ready.

anyways, start your own thread so we can check your cycle, then head to the diet forum and do what 3j tells you. then 2 maybe 3 days of the week sub his diet for all the pizza mcdonalds and lasagna you can find.

oh and if you have a mongolian grill by you that place is priceless

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Listen I've seen some of the first cycle plans alot of newbs have on here, and for you to say this cycle "sucks" is just dumb. I already said if I didn't see the gains I wanted, I would just up the calories/protein. I understand that eating enough on my cycle will be the hardest part, and if all you advised was to up the calories/protein some, then I would have thanked you for your advice. Instead you guys jumped on my ass telling me I shouldn't even be thinking of a cycle, and that I just need to go to burger king, and will only get water gains if I do try, and shit like that, instead of trying to actually help me with my first cycle.

If anything, the motivation I have to not waste my time, money, and my risk my health for no gains on this cycle is all I need to make it work.

ok i guess im over the diet, as long as you know you should aim for 4500 cals that way if you dont make your number and still get 3800 you will be ok. the days you actually hit your number is just a bonus cause you will just get bigger from them.

I would love to hear your training routine if you are so inclined to share.

 

[Underground]

ok i guess im over the diet, as long as you know you should aim for 4500 cals that way if you dont make your number and still get 3800 you will be ok. the days you actually hit your number is just a bonus cause you will just get bigger from them.

I would love to hear your training routine if you are so inclined to share.

Haha well thanks for serious advice, sorry I did get a little defensive on this thread. I first pinned yesterday, so going back isn't an option for me now, but I am very motivated to make this work and do it the right way. Anyway, I will take your advice and aim for the 4500 so that I do have wiggle room for missing days as you said.

As far as my routine right now, I guess it's time to brace myself for more criticism. I'm doing 5x5 bench presses, deadlifts, and squats and using a variety of machines 5x5 as well. I won't post how much I can put up because hopefully those numbers go up lol, ill say at least on bench I got a little bit to go to put up my own body weight, but I am just starting weight lifting so hopefully I hit that goal very quick. My goal is to work out 4-5 days a week for about 1 to 1.5 hours. I am still figuring out my exact routine since I just starting.

My first days at the gym (got a membership on Monday) were this week, and even though I did tons of pushups/pullups before (to a point my muscles were never sore too much the day after), after my first day of doing shit on Monday most of my body was very sore. On Tuesday I got the few muscles groups that weren't sore, so today I just took the day off because like literally everywhere aches, which I love haha.

Anyway, I guess it's time to get more of my plan torn apart, but I can take it =P Anyway time to sleep for me.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

sorry man but you dont need a 5x5 right now. 5x5 is a great routine its just best for breaking plateaus. your weight will go up really fast. now that i realize how fresh you are to strength training im going to encourage you 1 more time to stop your cycle. the gains you can make in the first 3 months are ridiculous. you will be adding weight to the bar every week if you do it right.

i will come back to this thread tomorrow try and get a rroutine straightened out for you.

you gotta do squats and deads first and foremost,

i will say again you can go go back and start this cycle later. its not a big deal if you wait man, i really encourage you to do so, you are so fresh to the game your gains will not be much bigger with the test, that im sure of

 

[Underground]

you are so fresh to the game your gains will not be much bigger with the test, that im sure of

Hmm, if you can give me a study or anything with some more proof of this, I will consider stopping.

The thing is, even if the boost with the extra test is small, which I'm not convinced of yet, there is another hidden boost for me -- I don't want to waste this cycle. I guarantee you i'll be hitting the diet and gym so much harder than I would without it as a motivator. Sort of a side benefit, although not a very good one, but like I said if you do have something solid backing up your claims I'll consider stopping.

 

[RJ]

Hmm, if you can give me a study or anything with some more proof of this, I will consider stopping.

The thing is, even if the boost with the extra test is small, which I'm not convinced of yet, there is another hidden boost for me -- I don't want to waste this cycle. I guarantee you i'll be hitting the diet and gym so much harder than I would without it as a motivator. Sort of a side benefit, although not a very good one, but like I said if you do have something solid backing up your claims I'll consider stopping.

ok young one, i'm gonna attempt to do like Det and take the high road here for a minute. Hopefully you'll listen.

Do you understand that you JUST started working out and you are already doing steroids and what that means? Forget that your tiny, forget that you're young. Det is right, and you don't need a study. studies don't mean shit. for every study you show me i can show you 10 saying the opposite.

We don't learn from studies... we learn from personal experience. Which you have none. If you had come on here and said you weighed 160lbs but had been working out for a few years, this whole thread would've been different.

i don't care that you don't know how to eat right. What i care about more is you JUST started working out and already looking for shortcuts.

I could guarantee, even with your fast metabolism syndrome, that we could get you to 180lbs by June with no steroids. I'm not talking about fat and water, which is prolly what you'll gain on this cycle, especially since I'm sure you are unfamiliar with the 3 rules of proper post cycle therapy (pct). I'm talking hard earned muscle. Because that is what it takes to get it. Hard work. You can say all you want that you are gonna START training really hard cause you started a cycle, but the truth is, you are starting from scratch by RELYING ON STEROIDS TO MAKE YOU GROW.

And that my friend is the worse part of this whole thread.

I'm not gonna be a dick anymore with the hopes that you actually listen. You need experience under the weight. you need experience eating big, and the only way to gain that is with time. Which you have a ton of.

And since you're looking for hard evidence. When I started working out I was 155lbs. And yes, i saw big guys in the gym and i contemplated doing juice... cause it was available. But the guy who got me started did the same thing to me that I am doing to you. And within 6 months i was 175lbs with a lower body fat. 20lbs dude. This is the prime time to gain muscle naturaly because like Det said you are so "fresh". You need to take advanatge of that and NOT rely on drugs. Cause if you do that now, you will continue to do it, and when you lose most of it during PCT or after, and you come back here begging for answers, don't worry we'll give em to you. But know we'll be doingt it with a shit eating grin because we have enough experience to know what is gonna happen.

Your choice. Look like an underwear model forever or join the ranks of the "dumb meatheads" as you called us.

Up to you.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

I agree. i dont think you realize how strong you will get in the first 3 months with out juice. you just arent getting much of an advantage by using the test right now, you will make gains sooo fast during these first 3 months i dont see test expediating it at all.

 

[glubgawd]

Man I have a ton of respect for you Oak and RJ too. You guys have no real world obligation to the people on this board, but are always persistent in dishing out solid advice and knowledge. Even when people are stubborn dicks towards you. Honestly, it would drive me nuts.

Anyways, just wanted to say that real quick. It's such a thankless job and I just wanted to remind you guys that some people on here actually appreciate your time and efforts.

 

[Ozzy727]

lol
Test won't cause much water gain...hell , even npp doesn't cause water gain for me. I'm on a lot of test right now and have zero water. I'm on sus/test-e.......don't tell me anything , I know what I'm doing

We are all different and react different. KNOW ONE should be telling anyone what is good for them. I have no idea how someone will react to anything. people told me I couldn't run npp/tren or I'm gonna need a bra...lmao !! Still no bra..just a huge chest and no titties. WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT !!

 

[Ozzy727]

Thats how all forums should be !! We all can stand to learn a little. These forums are to help people but some guys think it's funny to flame new guys for something they had no idea about a few months ago. You can bet that anytime anyone needs help and if I can help , I WILL HELP !! I will never flame anyone....except for the ones who are criticizing others and making fun of them.

Peace Oz

Anyways, just wanted to say that real quick. It's such a thankless job and I just wanted to remind you guys that some people on here actually appreciate your time and efforts.

 

[RJ]

Man I have a ton of respect for you Oak and RJ too. You guys have no real world obligation to the people on this board, but are always persistent in dishing out solid advice and knowledge. Even when people are stubborn dicks towards you. Honestly, it would drive me nuts.

Anyways, just wanted to say that real quick. It's such a thankless job and I just wanted to remind you guys that some people on here actually appreciate your time and efforts.

no thanks necessary. I was a newb once also, but the difference is I listened. And unfortunatley most don't. Most just wanna hear what they wanna hear.

I am here to help. I am not trying to be a MOD, the baddest dude in town, or some internet tough guy. I am an asshole, but thats just me. Those who listen will learn a thing or two. Not just from me cause I don't ever claim to know it all. But from all the members here that give sound advice based on real world experience... not some god damn study.

 

[ezred]

...I am not trying to be a MOD, the baddest dude in town, or some internet tough guy...

you know you practice your tough guy typing in notepad while you scour the forums for the next newb to skin and use as a gym mat.

seriously though.... op.... ? you out there?

you kept basically saying if something is wrong don't be an asshole just tell me how to fix it.... but then wouldn't listen to what people were saying was wrong because you only meant you wanted people to tell you what was wrong within the confines of your dosing protocol or time frame or things like that.

the thing that is wrong is your whole freaking approach here buddy... it is the rationale you're using, the mindset behind your actions.... THAT is where the primary issue lies. no one is going to want to correct the details of your cycle or your macro breakdown or what exercise to do to get amazing killer peaks on your biceps until you've become aware of and taken steps or showed the initiative to take steps in correcting the glaring discrepancies between what you think is best for you and what *most likely* actually is.

but apparently you just started jabbing away mindlessly so hopefully that will go well for you.

do come back around when you're ready to listen though.... it'll most likely be when you're dealing with issues which can and probably WILL present themselves during or shortly after your cycle... but like rj said, people will, in spite of everything, be ready and willing to help you then too.

but it all comes back to listening.... understanding... having the presence of mind to be able to step outside yourself and look at things objectively, see the situation from someone else's perspective, etc.

that's a maturity thing and either will come or it won't, and who knows when if it does, but hopefully it swoops in just in the nick of time before you decide to post again.

oh yeah.... and i guarantee you that if you take the number of people who have read this thread and subtract ALL OF THEM, that's how many people look at this and say you owned anybody or showed anybody up.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

lol
Test won't cause much water gain...hell , even npp doesn't cause water gain for me. I'm on a lot of test right now and have zero water. I'm on sus/test-e.......don't tell me anything , I know what I'm doing

We are all different and react different. KNOW ONE should be telling anyone what is good for them. I have no idea how someone will react to anything. people told me I couldn't run npp/tren or I'm gonna need a bra...lmao !! Still no bra..just a huge chest and no titties. WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT !!

I wouldnt suspect a nandrolone to cause much water gain unless you had a shitty diet, after all it barely aromatizes.

I can tell him he wont gain much besides water simply because he can not gain without test. the reason he can not is because he is obviously not eating a surplus of calories. so the point we are trying to make is without a surplus of calories, the weight gaines will primarily be water. if you cant agree with that then im not sure you are as experienced as you say you are.

are the same ozzy thats been around for a while? is this your new account?

 

[RJ]

We are all different and react different. KNOW ONE should be telling anyone what is good for them.

so what is the point of this board? Just to let everyone come on and ask questions and we say "sure, go ahead and do 4000mg of Deca and Halodrol... you'll get huge. Food... nah, you won't need much of that. Drugs will do it all like you think."

I don't think of it as telling someone what is good for them... i think of it as helping them make informed decisions based on personal experience. Not some study, or the idiot they got there juice from in the gym, or some shit they read in an article.

I totally agree with you about everyone is different. But there are a few certainties (is that even a word) out there.

lots of food, high training intensity and rest will make you grow. Not drugs. Certainly not Dbol only. Or test only with girl calorie intake.

 

[Underground]

but the truth is, you are starting from scratch by RELYING ON STEROIDS TO MAKE YOU GROW.

You make it sound like I just plan on taking some test and hoping it makes me big without doing diet/exercise. I promise you, it's the opposite. I plan on going hardcore diet/exercise, and just hope test will boost those gains (which people seem to agree it will, the question is how much or how little). I already know that even if the test does little for my gains, it will still help by keeping me super motivated. That's not even counting the increased aggression at the gym which will help me put up even more.

By the way, this isnt my first time weight training, it's just been years since I last did it. The problem the first time I did it is I did get bigger and more muscle (like 180 lbs) but I was getting a higher body fat percentage than I would have liked. From what I understand, test also makes more cals/protein go to muscle instead of fat.

I just wish there was some research or something with actual evidence that if you are just starting, test won't boost your gains much. I am too amped up about starting this cycle and my exercise/diet that I would really hate to push it back 3-6 months without some solid evidence.

I just want you guys to know I do appreciate the advice. I might talk some shit back if you do it in a dickish way, but as much as I might not want to hear some if it, I am listening. I already upped my calorie goals because of what DET said. I also never planned on doing 100% clean diet either, just mostly clean if I can help it but reaching cal/protein goals is most important.

 

[Underground]

I wouldnt suspect a nandrolone to cause much water gain unless you had a shitty diet, after all it barely aromatizes.

I can tell him he wont gain much besides water simply because he can not gain without test. the reason he can not is because he is obviously not eating a surplus of calories. so the point we are trying to make is without a surplus of calories, the weight gaines will primarily be water. if you cant agree with that then im not sure you are as experienced as you say you are.

are the same ozzy thats been around for a while? is this your new account?

I already said I'm upping my cals to 4500. With that factor out of the way, is there any reason to say test won't help at all?