first PH cycle need advice

[startrooper]

hello guys,i would you like to help me with something ...im thinking of doing my first prohormone cycle.my goal is to gain lean mass and not water.im at 8% bf right now so i dont want to be more than 10-11% after the cycle..

im thinking of using epistane havoc...what do u think?is it a good choice for my goal?should i go for 4 or 6 weeks to see good changes?

 

[Conrad0032]

What are your stats? Age? Let's get some info here

You can gain quite a bit of lean mass using epi, but I don't see why you'd be scared of going to 10% bf... You'd get much much more if you bulking on epi. You might stay at 8 or go up to 10, but if you bulk you will get far more gains.

 

[startrooper]

What are your stats? Age? Let's get some info here

You can gain quite a bit of lean mass using epi, but I don't see why you'd be scared of going to 10% bf... You'd get much much more if you bulking on epi. You might stay at 8 or go up to 10, but if you bulk you will get far more gains.

im 23 1.72 70 kg 8%bf..
you are right man,no harm done if i go to 10%,so my diet would be like 500+ maintance...
so what do u think about going with havoc 6 weeks 20/20/30/30/40/40...is that too much for first cycle?
so ill get cycle support,can u suggest me anything good for the liver during the cycle?
PCT should i go with nolva,clomid,post cycle support??

 

[startrooper]

What are your stats? Age? Let's get some info here

You can gain quite a bit of lean mass using epi, but I don't see why you'd be scared of going to 10% bf... You'd get much much more if you bulking on epi. You might stay at 8 or go up to 10, but if you bulk you will get far more gains.

im 23 1.72 70 kg 8%bf..
you are right man,no harm done if i go to 10%,so my diet would be like 500+ maintance...
so what do u think about going with havoc 6 weeks 20/20/30/30/40/40...is that too much for first cycle?
so ill get cycle support,can u suggest me anything good for the liver during the cycle?
PCT should i go with nolva,clomid,post cycle support??

 

[Conrad0032]

Def haven't maxed that natural potential. You could train naturally for a little bit and gain some more, but to each their own. I would do maintanance +250. +500 will result in a lot of extra fat while +250 will limit fat gain.

Don't run havoc at 20, it's a waste. It will give very little gains and shut you down. I'd run it for 5 weeks at 30/30/30/40/40. Play around with the dosages but I'd stay between 30-40 the entire time for your first cycle. I say 5 instead of 6 weeks because after week 4 the gains slow tremendously, you gain most everything week 3 and 4.

If you want the best you can get, I'd get TUDCA/UDCA; although with havoc I think 2 bottles of cycle assist will suffice. Couldn't hurt throwing in some liv. 52 as well as it's only 10 dollars for like a 3 month supply.

For PCT, definately go with Torem. It gives very few sides, if any, and allows recovery within the first week I'd say. But run it for 4 weeks incase as such:
week 1 - 120/120/120/90/90/90/90
Week 2 - 90 throughout
Week 3 - 60 throughout
Week 4 - 60/60/30/30/30/30/30

Any other questions let me know

 

[gymrat827]

Go 6wks at 40mg. 20/30 mg isn't much at all. Ppl even go 50/60 but I'd rec u don't do that.

Any serm will work for post cycle therapy (pct). clomid, nolva, torem, etc.

Make sure u get a bottle of N2gaurd for on cycle support and than an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and a good tes booster

 

[startrooper]

Def haven't maxed that natural potential. You could train naturally for a little bit and gain some more, but to each their own. I would do maintanance +250. +500 will result in a lot of extra fat while +250 will limit fat gain.

Don't run havoc at 20, it's a waste. It will give very little gains and shut you down. I'd run it for 5 weeks at 30/30/30/40/40. Play around with the dosages but I'd stay between 30-40 the entire time for your first cycle. I say 5 instead of 6 weeks because after week 4 the gains slow tremendously, you gain most everything week 3 and 4.

If you want the best you can get, I'd get TUDCA/UDCA; although with havoc I think 2 bottles of cycle assist will suffice. Couldn't hurt throwing in some liv. 52 as well as it's only 10 dollars for like a 3 month supply.

For PCT, definately go with Torem. It gives very few sides, if any, and allows recovery within the first week I'd say. But run it for 4 weeks incase as such:
week 1 - 120/120/120/90/90/90/90
Week 2 - 90 throughout
Week 3 - 60 throughout
Week 4 - 60/60/30/30/30/30/30

Any other questions let me know

man,thank you very much for your answer,i really appreciate it!!
last questions..

for PCT do i need only torem?dont i need anything else?where can i find it..?only with prescription?

between h-drol-havoc which one do u prefer better?

thanks again man.

 

[Conrad0032]

man,thank you very much for your answer,i really appreciate it!!
last questions..

for PCT do i need only torem?dont i need anything else?where can i find it..?only with prescription?

between h-drol-havoc which one do u prefer better?

thanks again man.

For PCT, this is what I'd do (if you're limited on cash). PCT is the most important part of this process, so try not to skimp.
Torem: take day after you stop taking PH at the doses I wrote. Check out the sponsors on this site. Welcome to RUI-Products.com! is very reliable and quick shipping.
DAA: This is a test booster. Studied a ton and proven to work. Start taking it 5 days before your first day of PCT, as it takes some time to kick in. Take 3-4 grams a day as directed on the bottle. It's over the counter so you can grab it off amazon or whatever.
Amazon.com: PrimaForce D-Aspartic Acid: Health & Personal Care
^ cheapest one I've seen. You have more than enough here, only need 100g for entire PCT
Cycle Assist: This is run through your cycle and PCT to restore liver function, blood pressure, and other stuff along those lines. Just take as directed
Optional:
PES Erase: This is a cortisol blocker, and Aromatase inhibitor (AI), and a test booster. It's not necessary but it's an awesome product to pick up if you have 25 dollars to drop. It will definately help preserve some more gains and prevent gyno to a lesser extent.
Liv 52: Just more liver support. Very cheap and very effective.

Havoc is a stronger, more powerful compound. Both are dry gains with a ton of strength along with them. It's really up to personally preference. Most people prefer Epi.

 

[startrooper]

For PCT, this is what I'd do (if you're limited on cash). PCT is the most important part of this process, so try not to skimp.
Torem: take day after you stop taking PH at the doses I wrote. Check out the sponsors on this site. Welcome to RUI-Products.com! is very reliable and quick shipping.
DAA: This is a test booster. Studied a ton and proven to work. Start taking it 5 days before your first day of PCT, as it takes some time to kick in. Take 3-4 grams a day as directed on the bottle. It's over the counter so you can grab it off amazon or whatever.
Amazon.com: PrimaForce D-Aspartic Acid: Health & Personal Care
^ cheapest one I've seen. You have more than enough here, only need 100g for entire PCT
Cycle Assist: This is run through your cycle and PCT to restore liver function, blood pressure, and other stuff along those lines. Just take as directed
Optional:
PES Erase: This is a cortisol blocker, and Aromatase inhibitor (AI), and a test booster. It's not necessary but it's an awesome product to pick up if you have 25 dollars to drop. It will definately help preserve some more gains and prevent gyno to a lesser extent.
Liv 52: Just more liver support. Very cheap and very effective.

Havoc is a stronger, more powerful compound. Both are dry gains with a ton of strength along with them. It's really up to personally preference. Most people prefer Epi.

ok man thanks again for ur help.unfortunatetly i dont have so much cash right now so ill postpone my cycle two-three months,in order to be able to buy everything youve told me that i need for the cycle.i want everything to be in order so ill enjoy it without any concerns!

 

[DustinLee]

^^ great decision. Always safe

 

[dylangemelli]

here's a strong pct for you...

clomid 50/50/25/25 AG-guys.com
unleahsed/post cycle combo n2bm.com
aromasin 12.5 mg eod AG-guys.com
n2guard n2bm.com


OPTIONAL

Keto burn MRSUPPS.COM
ostarine 25 mg day uniquemicals.com

Phytoserms and HCGenerate
can be used in place of the Unleashed/post cycle combo if they are out of stock

USE COUPON CODE DYLAN10 AT NEEDTOBUILDMUSCLE.COM FOR 10% OFF***8230;

 

[startrooper]

guys after some thought here is a plan..please give me ur opinion
2 bottles of havoc 30/30/30/40/40
during the cycle
liv52
cycle support
multivitamin
bcaa (optional)
taurine for back pumps
PCT
daa
liv52
n2guard
nolvadren xt
craze
creatine
do i need anything else?
the only problem i have is with SERMS...i live in europe so im a little afraid of ordering them via internet.and theyre in liquid form...if i went to a pharmacist here would i need prescription in order to buy them?

 

[startrooper]

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[startrooper]

so guys,ive made a plan and i would like to hear ur opinions...i decided to go with epi instead of h-drol cause i ve found a veryy good offer so i thought what the hell why not.
2 bottles of havoc 30/30/30/40/40
during before cycle
live52
cycle support
taurine for back pumps
multivitamin
bcaa

PCT
daa
n2guard
liv52
nolvadren xt
the only problem i have with the cycle is with SERM..of course i wont start anything if i wont find any..i live in europe and im kinda afraid of buing on online..and most are liquid form..what do u think i should do and whats ur opinion on the cycle?do i need and Aromatase inhibitor (AI) during the cycle like proviron?