First post... TRT.. back on?

[Yankee111516]

So it's been a long road for me. Here is a long story short... (32 Year Old Male)

Diagnosed with Low Test at 27, had similar symptoms as everyone else does. Fatigue, irritable, no sex drive, general terrible feeling, oh the brain fog, exhaustion and had no idea why. Went to the doc, diag'd with low T. Levels came back at 260ish. Sent me to a joke of an endocrinoligst who basically said since I had facial hair I was fine. They drew blood to check pituitary and said I was fine. ???

Started me on Testim. Noticed an improvement but nothing major. Had Test levels checked periodically and nothing ever rose higher than 290 or so. My guess is my Estrogen levels were higher as well but I did feel better. Switched from Testim to Androgel at probably 28. Stayed on Androgel till I was 30. Noticed I was getting some prostate discomfort (non bacterial prostatitis) probably from the damn Estrogen levels rising. (I heard this is a possibility). Came off when the wife and I decided to try and have our first child.. six months later success she was pregnant.

I've been of the topical testosterone for a year or so now. Feel horrible again. Muscle aches are really bad right now.. back pain (have compressed disc in lower back from old injury) and I just feel awful. Had bloods done again recently last week per the sticky on the top of this page to figure out what I can do.

I feel like the topicals don't work for me. Problem is noone in my area does injections, TRT is a bit foreign in my town and even getting on the Androgel took some time. (Live in a small town in NY).

I'd still like to have another child someday, so I am cautious about injections but think this is where I'm heading. I can't go on living the rest of my life feeling this way. I shouldn't feel this way at 32, I feel 62. I used to be a huge weight lifter, runner, was in much better shape. I'm 5'10 185 or so (been dieting).

Current bloods I had done today per Megatron Sticky

Test : 203
Free: 9.9
Prolactin: 8.4
LH 2.9
FSH: 2.8

Talked with Physcian today, he said maybe try pellets? I understand TRT is for life and probably shouldn't of went off but think the gels just aren't for me. Especially with our new baby and risk of contact.

Thoughts? Back to endo to check pituitary? I just don't understand what could of caused this change in my T levels from such a young age. Just wish everything could be normal. I feel like I'm constantly trying to figure my body out when docs think I'm crazy.

 

[20ytrt]

Basic trt is this : inject twice a week 50 mg/50 mg. with every t shots inject hcg 250 iu. use arimidex 0.25mg twice a week. thats how basic trt works

 

[ChronosOceanus]

Yankee, please disregard the above post. While it's true that most men find injections to be the most reliable form of administering TRT, the above post holds no value as it is from someone who is not even on TRT, and a cookie-cutter approach doesn't work for everyone.

As for actual advice, I would wait for some senior members of the forum to advise.

 

[Milton]

Basic trt is this : inject twice a week 50 mg/50 mg. with every t shots inject hcg 250 iu. use arimidex 0.25mg twice a week. thats how basic trt works

What do you base this on? Where did you get this info from? How old are you?

 

[Milton]

Yankee, please disregard the above post. While it's true that most men find injections to be the most reliable form of administering TRT, the above post holds no value as it is from someone who is not even on TRT, and a cookie-cutter approach doesn't work for everyone.

As for actual advice, I would wait for some senior members of the forum to advise.

I agree with this comment, wait for our more informed members/Mods to give you true advice and not from a member whos username name says that he is 20 years old.

 

[bigben66]

Your situation sucks OP... I've been there (albeit later in my life) and I am familiar with the picture you paint...

I really think you need to find an endocrinologist/urologist that you have faith with, and work with him on everything afresh...

You need to find someone who will start you on a series of injections and send you for regular blood draws to ascertain a protocol that you can move on with... and contrary to what the shmuck above said, this can vary greatly from patient to patient.

It took me 18 months to nail down my TRT protocol, but in that time I built up a great rapport with my doc... fortunately he listened to symptoms as well as considering blood test results.

If this is not possible, and you are stuck with your current endo - then plead with him to move you off gels - the risk of transferrance to family members is high, and managing estradiol is nigh on impossible. And absorbtion rates can vary from person to person...

Other than that, perhaps Mega or HW can chime in with a medical scenario that I might have missed that has caused these symptoms...

Good luck OP, keep us informed....

BigBen

 

[20ytrt]

What do you base this on? Where did you get this info from? How old are you?

whats wrong ? this is how basic trt works. inject twice a week test e and hcg and use ai ?

 

[Yankee111516]

Yankee, please disregard the above post. While it's true that most men find injections to be the most reliable form of administering TRT, the above post holds no value as it is from someone who is not even on TRT, and a cookie-cutter approach doesn't work for everyone.

As for actual advice, I would wait for some senior members of the forum to advise.

Your situation sucks OP... I've been there (albeit later in my life) and I am familiar with the picture you paint...

I really think you need to find an endocrinologist/urologist that you have faith with, and work with him on everything afresh...

You need to find someone who will start you on a series of injections and send you for regular blood draws to ascertain a protocol that you can move on with... and contrary to what the shmuck above said, this can vary greatly from patient to patient.

It took me 18 months to nail down my TRT protocol, but in that time I built up a great rapport with my doc... fortunately he listened to symptoms as well as considering blood test results.

If this is not possible, and you are stuck with your current endo - then plead with him to move you off gels - the risk of transferrance to family members is high, and managing estradiol is nigh on impossible. And absorbtion rates can vary from person to person...

Other than that, perhaps Mega or HW can chime in with a medical scenario that I might have missed that has caused these symptoms...

Good luck OP, keep us informed....

BigBen

Thank you guys for the response. Especially you BigBen. Sucks some of us are just unlucky in life when it comes to this topic.

I feel part of the issue is Doctors don't know enough about this who don't specialize in TRT.

I just know I can't go on like this forever. I think the SHBG has a lot to do with how you "feel".

Hoping Megatron chimes in.

More bloods in:

Test : 203
Free: 9.9
Prolactin: 8.4
LH 2.9
FSH: 2.8
SHBG: 11.2 (Low)

 

[Yankee111516]

I'm also starting to think that the low SHBG and my sugars being elavated has something to do with why the topical TRT (Androgel) never worked well for me.

Seems people with low SHBG do not respond to TRT hence why my level never got above 250 or so.

 

[bigben66]

Androgel doesn't work for many bro....

 

[daleb]

Get off the gels and get on an injection protocol. People tend to have more luck with an Urologist than an Endo or a GP. Call a local pharmacy and ask them who prescribes the most testostrone cypionate. Say you are new to the area and are looking to find a new doctor to continue your hormone replacement therapy.

 

[halfwit]

I'm also starting to think that the low SHBG and my sugars being elavated has something to do with why the topical TRT (Androgel) never worked well for me.

Seems people with low SHBG do not respond to TRT hence why my level never got above 250 or so.

Sorry man, you've been seriously pissing in the wind with your blood test results while ON TRT. The biggest issue with transdermal application is simply that many men just have too thick of a dermal layer (skin surface), and the hormone just can't make it to the blood stream in great enough levels. Compounding this issue, estradiol conversion also tends to be higher from transdermals as aromatase enzymes reside in the fat stores which happen to be right under the skin.

It's really a double whammy,and totally makes sense as to why you feel like crap!

Pellets and transdermals are PATENTED technologies. This means that while their patents are still valid, they can charge ridiculous prices, which unfortunately often leads to a kick back to the prescribing physician. I don't know how this is even legal in this day and age, but sadly it does often sway doctors into making less than optimal decisions in regards to what is best for the PATIENT.

Injections offer a cheap (not patented, as the hormones occur naturally, and has been around for over 70 years), reliable source of hormone replacement therapy that not only allows you to fine tune things, but is also NOT a transfer risk to loved ones.

Note: By law, a doctor CANNOT prescribe a transdermal if this is brought up as it directly is prescribing a medication that may pose a hazard to others. You have a small child, exposing them to testosterone at such a young age could have (not saying you would) disastrous results.

As far as coming off TRT to have more children, HCG has been shown, when used in conjunction with TRT, to retain fertility. This has an astonishingly almost 100% success rate if an existing fertility condition does not exist. There simply is (outside exceptions) no need to come off TRT in today's world.

I strongly suggest you talk with your prescribing physician after reading the FAQ at the top of the TRT forum (TONS of fantastic information!) and express your concerns and desire for self injections. If they insist that this isn't possible, inform them that it is common practice, and you are willing to have supervised injections until you develop a level of comfort to their satisfaction.

If they are still unwilling, you should fire them (you are the employer) and seek treatment elsewhere. If there simply are zero alternatives in your area, daleb has a great suggestion by speaking with your pharmacist. Lastly, if you have the means, IMT (a board sponsor here that SPECIALIZES in TRT) is a viable alternative.

I certainly wish you the best of luck. I went a very long time with low T, but I assure you that being vigilant in your endeavors is very much worth it. You will be literally amazed at just how different the world is once you're running on all eight cylinders again.

My .02c

 

[Yankee111516]

Sorry man, you've been seriously pissing in the wind with your blood test results while ON TRT. The biggest issue with transdermal application is simply that many men just have too thick of a dermal layer (skin surface), and the hormone just can't make it to the blood stream in great enough levels. Compounding this issue, estradiol conversion also tends to be higher from transdermals as aromatase enzymes reside in the fat stores which happen to be right under the skin.

It's really a double whammy,and totally makes sense as to why you feel like crap!

Pellets and transdermals are PATENTED technologies. This means that while their patents are still valid, they can charge ridiculous prices, which unfortunately often leads to a kick back to the prescribing physician. I don't know how this is even legal in this day and age, but sadly it does often sway doctors into making less than optimal decisions in regards to what is best for the PATIENT.

Injections offer a cheap (not patented, as the hormones occur naturally, and has been around for over 70 years), reliable source of hormone replacement therapy that not only allows you to fine tune things, but is also NOT a transfer risk to loved ones.

Note: By law, a doctor CANNOT prescribe a transdermal if this is brought up as it directly is prescribing a medication that may pose a hazard to others. You have a small child, exposing them to testosterone at such a young age could have (not saying you would) disastrous results.

As far as coming off TRT to have more children, HCG has been shown, when used in conjunction with TRT, to retain fertility. This has an astonishingly almost 100% success rate if an existing fertility condition does not exist. There simply is (outside exceptions) no need to come off TRT in today's world.

I strongly suggest you talk with your prescribing physician after reading the FAQ at the top of the TRT forum (TONS of fantastic information!) and express your concerns and desire for self injections. If they insist that this isn't possible, inform them that it is common practice, and you are willing to have supervised injections until you develop a level of comfort to their satisfaction.

If they are still unwilling, you should fire them (you are the employer) and seek treatment elsewhere. If there simply are zero alternatives in your area, daleb has a great suggestion by speaking with your pharmacist. Lastly, if you have the means, IMT (a board sponsor here that SPECIALIZES in TRT) is a viable alternative.

I certainly wish you the best of luck. I went a very long time with low T, but I assure you that being vigilant in your endeavors is very much worth it. You will be literally amazed at just how different the world is once you're running on all eight cylinders again.

My .02c

Great post. Thank you so much for taking the time to post that. (sorry for my delay on response I've been trying to track down a damn doctor).

It's pretty sad I have to resort to internet forums than getting actual good information for my doctor.

So this is what's been happening lately. I have been trying to track down some sort of doc locally that treats TRT on a semi regular basis. Called three endos they said they don't treat low Test. GREAT. Thanks for the help.

I called my urologist and left a message with his nurse. She called me back and I explained to her I've been trying to track down someone who can help me with this. She then tells me she treats several people there and they do injections, clomid ETC. THANK GOD. SOMEONE WHO CAN HELP. She was able to get me an appointment for end of the month. Hopefully I can bring all my blood work and someone can get to the bottom of what the hell is going on here.

I definitely have secondary hypogonadism, so maybe a regimen of Clomid can assist? or cypionate injections a couple times week with HGC? Thoughts?