First Test E Cycle - Feedback needed please

jvdawg

New member
My Stats:
26 years old
3 Years of training
5'10

Cycle:

Test E ew
Week 1 500mg - 1 Shot Mon,Thurs (frontload)
Week 2 -12 250mg - 1 Shot Mon,Thurs
HCG
Week 1 - 13 500iu - 1 Shot Mon, Thurs
Last 2 shots increase to 1500iu ready for post cycle therapy (pct) (stop Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) 4 days before post cycle therapy (pct))
Aromosin
Week 1 - 14 - 25mg Eod

post cycle therapy (pct)

Clomid
Weeks 15 - 18 - First day 100mg then 25mg ed
Aromosin
Weeks 15 - 21 - 25mg ed

Training and diet will also be increased aswell. To increase training i read that its better to increase volume for 2-12 weeks then deload for 2 weeks. In the increased volume stage you use higher rep ranges (im going for size and strength and realize strength ranges are the low ranges) then when you deload you use lower rep ranges as this will give you psychological benefit when your coming off cycle when its needed most by you not getting the feeling that your going backwards. To me it makes more sense the other way round but I read on an article to do this, Please correct me if I'm wrong or give advice or know from experience the best way to tackle training when on cycle thankyou.
 
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I would personally run aromasin at 12.5mg Ed then adjust if needed

Also, throw in nolva into your pct
Wait are you advising he run Aromasin as part of his post cycle therapy (pct)? I'd have to disagree if that's the case, I'd go with 50mg clomid, 20mg nolva for post cycle therapy (pct). If I misunderstood however then I apologize. :)
 
Start out @12.5m g aromasin then bump up if needed. I don't run an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) during post cycle therapy (pct) either.
 
Wait are you advising he run Aromasin as part of his post cycle therapy (pct)? I'd have to disagree if that's the case, I'd go with 50mg clomid, 20mg nolva for post cycle therapy (pct). If I misunderstood however then I apologize. :)

No not for post cycle therapy (pct), for wk 1-12. And nolva I would run 40/20/20/20 and clomid 75/50/50/50
 
Wait are you advising he run Aromasin as part of his post cycle therapy (pct)? I'd have to disagree if that's the case, I'd go with 50mg clomid, 20mg nolva for post cycle therapy (pct). If I misunderstood however then I apologize. :)

actually it can

Aromasin is a steroidal aromatase inactivator used to lower circulating estrogen. It was developed to help fight breast cancer as estrogen plays a role in the growth of cancer cells. Aromasin binds irreversibly to the aromatase enzyme. This suppresses the conversion of androgens into estrogen. Circulating estrogen can be reduced by nearly 85% in women using Aromasin. A common misconception is that aromatase inhibition is similar in men than women. However in trials when males were administered 25mg of Aromasin daily maximal estradiol suppression of 62 ± 14% was observed at 12 hours. Aromasin acts as a false substrate for the aromatase enzyme, and is processed to an intermediate that binds irreversibly to the active site of the enzyme causing its inactivation, an effect also known as "suicide inhibition." In other words, Exemestane, by being structurally similar to the target of the enzymes, permanently binds to those enzymes, thereby preventing them from ever completing their task of converting androgens into estrogens. When we compare this mode of action against other AI’s the benefit becomes clear. Arimidex can unbind from the aromatase enzyme when you stop taking it but Aromasin will not therefore there is less chance of estrogen rebound with Aromasin.

Aromasin can be employed during a steroid cycle when aromatizing compounds such as testosterone are administered in order to control estrogen from getting out of control. During the course of a typical steroid cycle estrogen can rise quite high. Estrogen has been measured as much as 7 times higher than normal in men on steroids. This is excessive and can potentially cause water retention, gynecomastia (the formation of female breast tissue) or benign prostatic hyperplasia. Therefore in order to avoid these side effects estrogen must be controlled.

Aromasin not only lowers circulating estrogen and sex hormone binding globulin but it also increases free testosterone by a whopping 117%! Total testosterone increases about 60%. Check out the performance of Aromasin after just 10 days of treatment in males.


Aromasin may be used during a steroid cycle with aromatizing compounds and during post cycle therapy (pct) to help keep the estrogen to testosterone balance in favor of testosterone. Out of all the medications to control estrogen, Aromasin seems to be the most well balanced. It raises testosterone slightly better than Arimidex and lowers estradiol about 12% better than arimidex in men and is likely to cause less estrogen rebound than Arimidex. Keep in mind that 50mg of Aromasin daily kept estradiol in the normal range for men so if you think using an aromatase inhibitor will crush estrogen too much this science supports the opposite. From the data I have read and my years of experience with this medication 25mg of Aromasin every other day is a good starting point on moderate doses of testosterone. If testosterone doses are raised then 25mg daily may be needed to control estrogen. Since either high and low estrogen can cause side effects such as low libido only labs can determine the appropriate dose of Aromasin.

Written by heavyiron - former member here
 
more
Aromasin (Exemestane) is one of those weird compounds that nobody really knows what to do with. What we generally hear about it makes it very uninteresting…It’s a third generation Aromatase Inhibitor (AI) just like Arimidex (Anastrozole) and Femera (Letrozole). Both of those two drugs are very efficient at stopping the conversion of androgens into estrogen, and since we have them, why bother with Aromasin? It’s a little harder to get than the other two commonly used aromatase inhibitors, because it’s not in high demand, and there’s never been a readily apparent advantage to using it. And I mean…lets face it: It’s awkward-sounding. Aromasin doesn’t have much of a ring to it, and exemestane is even worse. Arimidex has a bunch of cool abbreviations ("A-dex" or just ‘dex) and even Letrozole is just "Letro" to most people. Where’s the cool nickname for

Aromasin/exemestane? A-Sin? E-Stane? It just doesn’t work. It’s the black sheep of AIs. And why do we even need it when we have Letrozole, which is by far the most efficient Aromatase inhibitor (AI) for stopping aromatization (the process by which your body converts testosterone into estrogen)? Letro can reduce estrogen levels by 98% or greater; clinically a dose as low as 100mcgs has been shown to provide maximum aromatase inhibition (2)!

So why would we need any other AIs? Well, first of all, estrogen is necessary for healthy joints (3) as well as a healthy immune system (4). So getting rid of 98% of the estrogen in your body for an extended period of time may not be the best of ideas. This may be useful on an extreme cutting cycle, leading up to a bodybuilding contest, or if you are particularly prone to gyno, but certainly can’t be used safely for extended periods of time without compromising your joints and immune system.

That leaves us with Arimidex, which isn’t as potent as Letrozole, but at .5mgs/day will still get rid of around half (50%) of the estrogen in your body. Problem solved, right? Use Arimidex on your typical cycles, and if you are very prone to gyno or are getting ready for a contest, use Letro.

But what about Post Cycle Therapy (PCT)?

I think at this point most people are sold on the use of Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate) instead of Clomid for post cycle therapy (PCT), since both compete estrogen at the receptor site, both increase serum test levels, and both drugs may also alter blood lipid profiles favorably (6). But since 20mgs of Tamoxifen is equal to 150mgs of clomid for purposes of testosterone elevation, FSH and LH, but Tamoxifen doesn’t decrease the LH response to LHRH (6) I think most people agree to Nolvadex’s superiority for PCT.

Aromasin with Nolvadex

I’ve always been in favor of using Nolvadex during post cycle therapy (pct), along with an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), because reducing estrogen levels has been positively correlated with an increase in testosterone (7) so in my mind, it’s be beneficial to increase testosterone by as many mechanisms as possible while trying to recover your endogenous testosterone levels after a cycle. SO which Aromatase inhibitor (AI) do we use? Letro or A-dex? Well, why don’t we just keep using whichever one we used during the cycle, and add in some Nolvadex? Unfortunately, Nolvadex will significantly reduce the blood plasma levels of both Letrozole as well as Arimidex (8). So if we choose to use one of them with our Nolvadex on post cycle therapy (pct), we’re throwing away a bit of money as the Nolvadex will be reducing their effectiveness.

This, of course, is where Aromasin comes in, at 20-25mgs/day.

Aromasin, at that dose, will raise your testosterone levels by about 60%, and also help out your free to bound testosterone ratio by lowering levels of Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG), by about 20% (12)…SHBG is that nasty enzyme that binds to testosterone and renders it useless for building muscle. But what about using it along with Nolvadex for PCT?

Difference Between Type-I and Type-II Aromatase Inhibitors

To understand why Aromasin may be useful in conjunction with Nolvadex while both Letro and A-dex suffer reduced effectiveness, we’ll need to first understand the differences between a Type-I and Type-II Aromatase Inhibitor. Type I inhibitors (like Aromasin) are actually steroidal compounds, while type II inhibitors (like Letro and A-dex) are non-steroidal drugs. Hence, androgenic side effects are very possible with Type-I AIs, and they should probably be avoided by women. Of course, there are some similarities between the two types of AIs…both type I & type II AIs mimic normal substrates (essentially androgens), allowing them to compete with the substrate for access to the binding site on the aromatase enzyme. After this binding, the next step is where things differ greatly for the two different types of AI’s. In the case of a type-I Aromatase inhibitor (AI), the noncompetitive inhibitor will bind, and the enzyme initiates a sequence of hydroxylation; this hydroxylation produces an unbreakable covalent bond between the inhibitor and the enzyme protein. Now, enzyme activity is permanently blocked; even if all unattached inhibitor is removed. Aromatase enzyme activity can only be restored by new enzyme synthesis. Now, on the other hand, competitive inhibitors, called type II AI’s, reversibly bind to the active enzyme site, and one of two things can happen: 1.) either no enzyme activity is triggered or 2.) the enzyme is somehow triggered without effect. The type II inhibitor can now actually disassociate from the binding site, eventually allowing renewed competition between the inhibitor and the substrate for binding to the site. This means that the effectiveness of competitive aromatase inhibitors depends on the relative concentrations and affinities of both the inhibitor and the substrate, while this is not so for noncompetitive inhibitors. Aromasin is a type-I inhibitor, meaning that once it has done its job, and deactivated the aromatase enzyme, we don’t need it anymore. Letrozole and Arimidex actually need to remain present to continue their effects. This is possibly why Nolvadex does not alter the pharmacokinetics of Aromasin (11).

Conclusion

Before we close the book on Aromasin, it’s worth noting that you can (and should) still use one of the non-steroidal AIs during your cycle to reduce estrogen, if necessary. When you are ready for post cycle therapy (pct), you can then switch over to Aromasin and still experience the full effects of an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), since there is no cross-over tolerance experienced between steroidal and non-steroidal AIs (9). Since Aromasin is about 65% efficient at suppressing estrogen (10), it’s certainly a very powerful agent, especially considering you won’t experience reduced effectiveness because of your concurrent use of Nolvadex or from any sort of tolerance developed by using other AIs on your cycle(9). There is also a decent amount of preclinical data suggesting that Aromasin has a beneficial effect on bone mineral metabolism that is not seen with non-steroidal agents, and it may also have beneficial effects on lipid metabolism that are not found in the non-steroidal Letro and A-dex (9).

Finally, as we’re going to be using Nolvadex for post cycle therapy (pct) anyway, and we ought to be using an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) with it for maximum recovery…I think Aromasin- considering it’s compatibility with Nolvadex and beneficial effects on bone mineral content and lipid profile, has finally stopped being the black sheep of AIs and found a home in our cycles.

References:

original poster heavyiron
1. Clin Cancer Res. 2005 Apr 15;11(8):2809-21.
2. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1995 Sep;80(9):2658-60.
3. [Clinical aspects of estrogen and bone metabolism] Clin Calcium. 2002 Sep;12(9):1246-51. Japanese.
4. Science, Vol 283, Issue 5406, 1277-1278 , 26 February 1999
5. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 2000 Jul;85(7):2370-7, "Estrogen Suppression in Males"
6. Fertil Steril. 1978 Mar;29(3):320-7
7. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2004 Mar;89(3):1174-80
8. .J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2001 Dec;79(1-5):85-91.
9. The Oncologist, Vol. 9, No. 2, 126–136, April 2004
10. Zilembo N., Noberasco C., Bajetta E., Martinetti A., Mariani L., Orefici S. Endocrinological and clinical evaluation of exemestane, a new steroidal aromatase inhibitor. Br. J. Cancer, 72: 1007-1012, 1995
11. Clinical Cancer Research Vol. 10, 1943-1948, March 2004
12. The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 88, No. 12 5951-5956
Copyright © 2003 by The Endocrine Society
 
I am completely new to this I haven't been a member for long but I have been reading up on this site a lot for the past six months. I already have found my source I have never ran a cycle before in my life I want to just run test e to see how my body responds to it I was thinking of 12 weeks test e 1.25cc sunday 1.25cc Wednesday I know that after my last pin 3 to 4 weeks after that is when I would wanna start running my pct which I am curiouse if chlomid or nalvodex would be the way to go. I have been lifting for last 3 years extremely consistently. So I am wondering what or if I need to take anything while im on this or not sorry that I am probably asking you guys something extremely dumb just want to make sure I am doing this the safe and right way If someone could punch in what it would look like the cycle and what I need when I need if u could simplify it for someone dumb I would appreciate thank you very much
 
I read the top guys post but when do I need to take all the other stuff besides the test e I got that down and the frontload confuses me and 2 to 3 weeks after my last pin prick how many mg of nalvodex do I need to run daily? and for exactly how long
 
I read the top guys post but when do I need to take all the other stuff besides the test e I got that down and the frontload confuses me and 2 to 3 weeks after my last pin prick how many mg of nalvodex do I need to run daily? and for exactly how long

start your own thread for assistance
 
Hey sorry can you explain to me where and how to make a new thread? Im not to good with computers

First make sure you are in the correct seccion - Anabolic Steroid Forum (just in case)

See pick below click create new thread click on "post new thread" circled in red

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