First Timer...a little nervous...a few questions

[Bromosexual]

Hey guys, first timer here trying to get things straight for my first ever cycle of AAS. Before posting I’ve tried to do all the internet research my brain will allow. So I thought I’d contact you, the experts. I’ve never done AAS before so I apologize in advance for my ignorance.

Background info: Let me start by saying I’m not a bodybuilder, but rather a powerlifter/oly lifter. But I have great respect for bodybuilders and bodybuilding as a sport. I have a lot of experience with lifting properly, clean dieting, and legal supplements so none of that should be a problem. Also, I’ve got the cash to go all out on this cycle, so money is not an issue. I’m 33, 5’10, 180, 8-10%.

My goals are as follows: STRENGTH, preferably without much size and ideally with NO (or minimal) SIDE EFFECTS. I know it’s every user’s goal to minimize sides but I’m an extremist on this issue to the point where I’m willing to sacrifice gains to assure that I don’t suffer sides, especially gyno which scares the shit out of me. Simply put I want to push through a strength plateau (and keep the strength gains) on the safest beginner cycle possible. Beyond that, any other benefits would be icing on the cake. Second on my wish list would be some endurance as I also train MMA. I’d rather gain hardness and/or cut before I’d want to gain mass, but if some size is necessary I’d live with it to gain strength without side effects. I really just want to do a cycle and get some noticeable, lasting benefit(s) out of it without side effects.

Here is what I’ve come up with so far:

Weeks 1-12: Test C or E 500mg/week, optimally in two 250mg doses (Monday and Thursday). Arimidex (anastrozole) 0.5mg/EOD (can be increased to 1.0mg/EOD if estrogen-related sides occur). NAT (N-acetylcysteine) and Milk Thistle daily for liver support. Omegas daily for heart/cholesterol support. HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotropin) 500 IU/week (250IU with each Test injection) and 1000IU/day for the last 10 days leading up to PCT to prevent any testicular atrophy from happening.

Weeks 13-14: Stop Test, Arimidex and HCG and allow it to clear out. NAT (N-acetylcysteine) and Milk Thistle daily for liver support. Omegas daily for heart/cholesterol support.

Weeks 15-16 (PCT): Clomid (Clomaphene Citrate) 50mg/day. Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate) 40mg/day. NAT (N-acetylcysteine) and Milk Thistle daily for liver support. Omegas daily for heart/cholesterol support.

Weeks 17-18 (PCT): Clomid 50mg/day. Nolvadex 20mg/day. NAT (N-acetylcysteine) and Milk Thistle daily for liver support. Omegas daily for heart/cholesterol support.

Weeks 19-22: Tribulus 1500mg/day. Cyclo Dex. DAA 3-6mg/day. NAT (N-acetylcysteine) and Milk Thistle daily for liver support. Omegas daily for heart/cholesterol support.

*Weeks 19-22 aren’t technically part of the cycle, but I just thought I’d list it as the next step I’d take to make sure my hormone levels return to normal.

**I know I need to keep diet very clean to prevent water retention, especially focusing on not overeating carbs.

***I have not yet decided whether or not to use Propecia to prevent hair loss as I’ve read it carries some negative sexual side effects and family history dictates that I’ll be bald soon anyway.

Questions:

1. Does the cycle I’ve listed above make sense? Timing, dosages, etc.? Anything I’m missing or that doesn’t fit?

2. Will this plan help me gain strength? Will I be able to keep the strength with this PCT and assuming a solid program after this cycle?

3. Do I have everything I need in order to minimize side effects? If not, what would you suggest and at what timing/dosage?

4. I’ve seen Aromasin (Exemestane) used at 12.5mg/day instead of Arimidex. I’ve also seen Letrozole used at 2.5mg/day for 7-14 days after gyno symptoms start, then tapered down to 0.5-1mg/day for the remainder of the cycle. I know these are all supposed to do the same thing but is one better than the other at preventing symptoms from starting all together? Should I keep Aromasin and Letrozole on hand in case Arimidex doesn’t work well? Can I switch from Arimidex to Aromasin/Letrozole mid cycle if it doesn’t seem to be working?

Thanks for any help you can give me! I appreciate it.

 

[Roush]

first question.. you say your NOT a bodybuilder, but rather a powerlifter and are training for strength. If that is the case why are you maintaining 8% body fat !!??? There is no point in that at all,, you'll get more strength and power with more on your frame. a lot of bodybuilders do not even maintain 8% body fat except going into a show.

If your body fat is that low without even trying,,then you may get plenty of strength gains by simply adjusting and upping your diet.

test only cycle is the way to go for your fist cycle.. but go get blood work done ahead of time so you know what your base points are and what you need to recover back to.

 

[Bromosexual]

first question.. you say your NOT a bodybuilder, but rather a powerlifter and are training for strength. If that is the case why are you maintaining 8% body fat !!??? There is no point in that at all,, you'll get more strength and power with more on your frame. a lot of bodybuilders do not even maintain 8% body fat except going into a show.

If your body fat is that low without even trying,,then you may get plenty of strength gains by simply adjusting and upping your diet.

test only cycle is the way to go for your fist cycle.. but go get blood work done ahead of time so you know what your base points are and what you need to recover back to.

My body fat is what it is based on a lot of natural training and genetics, NOT "without even trying." I compete in body weight classes and don't want to move up if I don't have to. More strength at my current weight and build isn't pointless to me, maybe it is to a bodybuilder, hence the reason I said I'm not one.

I'll definitely get the blood work done. Thanks Roush.

 

[Roush]

My body fat is what it is based on a lot of natural training and genetics, NOT "without even trying." I compete in body weight classes and don't want to move up if I don't have to. More strength at my current weight and build isn't pointless to me, maybe it is to a bodybuilder, hence the reason I said I'm not one.

I'll definitely get the blood work done. Thanks Roush.

even with a test only cycle,, it may be 'easy' to blow up and put on more size and weight then you are wanting. If you need to stay in a weight class, but need to get stronger without adding weight and size, then definitely stay away from hypertrophy training, and keep your secondary movements heavy as well..
at that low of a body fat percentage the only weight you have to loose is all water (which means loss of strength) and muscle (which means loss of strength).

after doing one cycle and your strength goes up dramatically and weight goes up slightly,, you may actually decide you want to keep going and jump up a weight class. but either way one test only cycle should give you a good idea where you want to be.

 

[Bromosexual]

even with a test only cycle,, it may be 'easy' to blow up and put on more size and weight then you are wanting. If you need to stay in a weight class, but need to get stronger without adding weight and size, then definitely stay away from hypertrophy training, and keep your secondary movements heavy as well..
at that low of a body fat percentage the only weight you have to loose is all water (which means loss of strength) and muscle (which means loss of strength).

after doing one cycle and your strength goes up dramatically and weight goes up slightly,, you may actually decide you want to keep going and jump up a weight class. but either way one test only cycle should give you a good idea where you want to be.

I have a couple kg to play with most of the time and I'm very experienced with cutting weight for comps. I don't do much in the way of hypertrophy training anyway. I stick to 3-5 rep range with a few exceptions. If my strength went up drastically after a cycle or two I'd be alright going up a class, but for the time being I don't want to.

Roush, does the cycle itself look ok or am I making a blunder of some kind?

 

[Roush]

as for the cycle.. looks pretty good. I personally would not start out right away with .5 mg of adex eod, as that may dry out your joints and drop e2 pretty low. I'd start with .25 mg eod, get bloods at week 4, then go from there.

NAC is good,, milk thistle is 'ok', but be better to add Liv52 instead of milk thistle. HCG dose looks good,, I'd pin it separately from the test though with a slin pin in the belly,, its easier to measure it out that way (dependent on how you dose the hcg with the bac water).. as for the omega 3 and tribulus,, not really part of any cycle. Omega supplement is good if you don't eat enough fats in your diet like salmon.. tribulus is a waste, imo.

pct is pretty standard,, some guys will run ai and hcg a week longer then test C

don't bother with Letro at this stage of the game,, its really strong and you'll crash your E if you don't know what your doing,, its great to have for mass cycles like Test Prop, D-bol,, but you won't need it here.

 

[Bromosexual]

as for the cycle.. looks pretty good. I personally would not start out right away with .5 mg of adex eod, as that may dry out your joints and drop e2 pretty low. I'd start with .25 mg eod, get bloods at week 4, then go from there.

NAC is good,, milk thistle is 'ok', but be better to add Liv52 instead of milk thistle. HCG dose looks good,, I'd pin it separately from the test though with a slin pin in the belly,, its easier to measure it out that way (dependent on how you dose the hcg with the bac water).. as for the omega 3 and tribulus,, not really part of any cycle. Omega supplement is good if you don't eat enough fats in your diet like salmon.. tribulus is a waste, imo.

pct is pretty standard,, some guys will run ai and hcg a week longer then test C

don't bother with Letro at this stage of the game,, its really strong and you'll crash your E if you don't know what your doing,, its great to have for mass cycles like Test Prop, D-bol,, but you won't need it here.

Thanks Roush, I'll swap out the milk thistle for Liv52. I've heard mixed reviews about the milk thistle anyway.

As for the adex, do you think I'll be gyno-free at .25mg eod? I know everyone is different but in general is .25mg eod the standard?

I've never done blood work with tribulus, but when I've used it in the past I've felt really strong. Maybe it's just placebo effect.

I'll scrap Letro since I am just a beginner and don't really know what I'm doing. If I ever feel itchy nipples would I just increase my adex dosage? Or replace the adex with aromasin? Or add aromasin to adex?

 

[Roush]

Thanks Roush, I'll swap out the milk thistle for Liv52. I've heard mixed reviews about the milk thistle anyway.

As for the adex, do you think I'll be gyno-free at .25mg eod? I know everyone is different but in general is .25mg eod the standard?

I've never done blood work with tribulus, but when I've used it in the past I've felt really strong. Maybe it's just placebo effect.

I'll scrap Letro since I am just a beginner and don't really know what I'm doing. If I ever feel itchy nipples would I just increase my adex dosage? Or replace the adex with aromasin? Or add aromasin to adex?

you could be gyno free without taking any Adex what-so-ever (no recommended of course), especially with your low BF% you probably don't aromatize (convert testosterone into estrogen) as much as other guys,, but every one is different.
So yeah, .25 adex should be a good starting point to keep E2 in check, and keep any chance of gyno entirely at bay. If Estrogen is elevated at 4 weeks then adjust dosage up from there.

as for Adex and Aromasin,, you only need one or the other. They are both AIs and work similar, Aromasin has a shorter half life and therefore needs taken every day at a higher dosage,, Adex has a longer half life and can be taken every other day at a lesser dosage.
with running only 500 mg of test, adex should suite you just fine EOD this first cycle

 

[Bromosexual]

Regarding the blood work, ideally what am I looking for in the tests?

I know the first blood test will give me my baseline Free Test, Overall Test, Estrogen, E2, and LH.

What specifically am I looking for in the second test? I'm assuming that ideally a much higher Free Test and Overall Test with Estrogren, E2 and LH staying the same or at least within the normal range?

And then the last test am I looking for everything to return to my baseline with slightly higher test?

Sorry, I haven't been able to find reliable info on the blood tests other than I know I definitely need to get them.

Thanks again Roush, I'm feeling much more confident about my first cycle already.

 

[Roush]

first test, yes to get a baseline for everything, and to make sure there are no underlying issues that you are unaware of .

mid cycle test, to make sure your Estrogen is not elevating and so you can dial in you AI.. also, to make sure your gear/testosterone is legit and properly dosed.. your total T levels should be greatly elevated (>1500) and your LH should be down (indicated that your not 'communicating' producing your own Test being you have 'real' exogenous test in your system).. If your total test is near baseline and your LH is still normal,, then your gear is no good.

post cycle, post PCT bloods,, to check your recovery and see if all is back to normal and baseline.

note: your not running an oral or hepatoxic compound, but its always good to go ahead and run liver enzyme values with your blood work

 

[Megatron28]

Regarding the blood work, ideally what am I looking for in the tests?

I know the first blood test will give me my baseline Free Test, Overall Test, Estrogen, E2, and LH.

What specifically am I looking for in the second test? I'm assuming that ideally a much higher Free Test and Overall Test with Estrogren, E2 and LH staying the same or at least within the normal range?

And then the last test am I looking for everything to return to my baseline with slightly higher test?

Sorry, I haven't been able to find reliable info on the blood tests other than I know I definitely need to get them.

Thanks again Roush, I'm feeling much more confident about my first cycle already.

Read the link provided in my signature below. Among other things, it provides info on blood work.

 

[Bromosexual]

Read the link provided in my signature below. Among other things, it provides info on blood work.

Hi Megatron28, I've read that over several times. I'm seeing where it says "Most guys like their Sensitive Assay estradiol to come in between 20-40pg/ml." as a mid-cycle blood work test, but I'm not seeing anything about any of the other levels except for generalities like "keep your E2 levels low" and test levels will be "well above 1500." I apologize if I'm missing it. I was looking for specific numeric "goals" to be looking for in the mid-cycle test. I'll be getting the male test from privatemd so I have the ultrasensitive E2 numbers.

 

[Megatron28]

Hi Megatron28, I've read that over several times. I'm seeing where it says "Most guys like their Sensitive Assay estradiol to come in between 20-40pg/ml." as a mid-cycle blood work test, but I'm not seeing anything about any of the other levels except for generalities like "keep your E2 levels low" and test levels will be "well above 1500." I apologize if I'm missing it. I was looking for specific numeric "goals" to be looking for in the mid-cycle test. I'll be getting the male test from privatemd so I have the ultrasensitive E2 numbers.

Sorry! I thought you were looking for what labs to get.

Some things should be at supraphysiological levels like TT. You want to see most other things stay in the normal range. LH and FSH should be ast essentially 0.

 

[mannyo4339]

stats 191lbs
no previous cycles
ran dbol 50 mgs ed and test 250 mg 2x a week
have never had gyno before

hey guys i had a question really feeaking myself out here, i took some dbol for 2 weeks at 50 mgs, 500 mgs test e, was on this cycle for 2 weeks when i noticed my nipples starting growing a gland underneath, they dont gurt or itch or are sore, now i got a nickle sized lump under each nipple, im starting nolva 40mg ed to see what can be done because i see studies shows it helped it and have had buddies do it and it caused it to go away, idk i shoudlve done my research i know, i didnt take an ai right away till a week in, now i stopped the whole cycle, im only running nolva, please help idk what to do here i have these 2 lumps under my nipples now, ppl say since it was only 2 weeks on cycle my hormones will adjust back and itll go away, this was my first cycle, please help