HARDGAINER??? Can't gain weight? Read this....

[AandF6969]

Diet is 75% of bulking up IMO. You can lift like Ronnie Coleman, but bottom line you will not grow any muscle without the calories behind it for bulking. Simple biology and one equation---->

Calorie balance=Calories in - Calorie expenditure

If you aren't gaining weight, you are not in a positive calorie balance so you need to either cut out all cardio, eat more, or both. Try adding up your calories using the links at the bottom of the page, many people who think they "eat all the time" actually eat under 3000 calories per day, which is very low for a bulking diet. Get used to eating frequently also, like every 3 hours tops. The only time I was hungry on my last bulker was right when I woke up in the morning. Remember: an appetite is not necessary to eat. You need to get used to eating what/when you MUST, not what/when you want.

There are two ways to bulk: A clean bulk (slower, but leaner gains) and a dirty bulk (faster gains, more fat storage if metabolism isn’t fast) The main difference is that on a clean bulk, you NEVER eat carbs and fats together. Milk is bad for this reason. Eating carbs and fats together causes almost all of the fat to get stored instead of used for energy. Don’t eat carbs in your last 2 meals of the day because they get stored as fat while you sleep. Eat at least 40g protein with every meal, and make meals either protein/fat or protein/carb.

PWO=Post Workout, the most anabolic (muscle building) time in anyone’s day is the half hour following a workout. It is best to use a fast-acting protein like Whey. Your muscles soak up protein like a sponge. It is also useful to eat twice as many carbs as protein to help shuttle the proteins to the muscles. The PWO shakes I use are

---50g Optimum Nutrition Whey
---50g Dextrose (Corn sugar, causes an insulin spike to increase absorption of protein)
---50g Maltodextrin (Powdered complex carb supplement)

Some people prefer to drop the maltodextrin and just do 100g of dextrose. Try both and see what works for you.

Eating approximately every 2.5 to 3 hours is good for 3 reasons…
1. You can eat more calories in a day if your meals are smaller. Its easier to eat 600 calorie meals 6 times a day then it is to eat 1200 calorie meals 3 times a day.
2. Your body can only digest so many calories at a meal, and the rest gets stored as fat. Lowering the amount of food eaten at one time reduces the “extra” over what you need.
3. Muscles start to catabolize (break down) if they are without protein for 3-4 hours unless you are sleeping. Hell, when I'm bulking I drink a milk/casein shake when I get up to piss at night.

For all you 130-150 pounders thinking about taking steroids... re-evaluate your diets. If you can't gain weight naturally, steroids aren't going to do anything for you except shrink your balls. Think about it... raw materials to form muscles have to come from somewhere right? Try eating 300g protein, 400g carbs, and 150g fats.

You will grow.

A couple useful links

1) www.fitday.com <----Huge database of foods, can look up pro/fat/carbs and calories on them.

2) http://www.ntwrks.com/~mikev/chart1.html <------Basically the same

3) http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/berardi41.htm <----- An equation that you
plug in your weight and bodyfat percentage and it will tell you how many calories you need to eat every day to grow.

If your diet is "all that and a bag of chips", and you STILL weigh 140 pounds dripping wet, either you have a SERIOUS thyroid problem or your training sucks. Remember "The Big 5" - Squat, Deadlift, Row, Bench, Military.

GET BIG!

-A&F-

 

[mesomorph]

Well I certainly won't argue that you should get all your ducks in a row before considering gear. Like learn to lift, and lift right, learn about what program works best for you, which means you should have been working out a few years before even thinking about gear. And yes, diet is often one of the most neglected aspects of training properly.

But there are quite few of us hardgainers that did all that & didn't put on too much mass until we supplemented. I was a 6-1 165 lb dude that lifted regular for 20-30 years. But then on gear got my weight up to 220 in a few years and doubled my strength. I bet there are quite a few here at the forum that would say similar things about their lifting history.

 

[AandF6969]

Perhaps you're an extreme case of genetics, but for most people if they injest 4000-5000 calories per day and train with respect to big compound movements they WILL gain weight and get at least in the vicinity of 200 lbs.

 

[no regrets]

good post

 

[DirkMoneyshot]

The main difference is that on a clean bulk, you NEVER eat carbs and fats together. Milk is bad for this reason. Eating carbs and fats together causes almost all of the fat to get stored instead of used for energy. Don’t eat carbs in your last 2 meals of the day because they get stored as fat while you sleep. Eat at least 40g protein with every meal, and make meals either protein/fat or protein/carb.

-A&F-

This is awful advice and i would ask you to refrain from suggesting this -

Your idea that carbs and fat are bad together is a completely false statement and makes no sense in human physiology.

I would suggest you read up on the process of how the body works a little more.

The idea that your eating carbs in the last 2 meals will make you fat. Again this is not accurate. I would suggest cutting back some on the total kcals/carbs but not eliminate them.

A nutrition plan can not be simplified into a single post - Every individual is taken on a case by case basis. To suggest something to one on here would not work the same for someone else.

 

[AandF6969]

Your idea that carbs and fat are bad together is a completely false statement and makes no sense in human physiology.

My logic behind this is that carbhohydrates cause an insulin spike, and while your insulin levels are high there is greater potential for fat storage.

Every individual is taken on a case by case basis. To suggest something to one on here would not work the same for someone else.

I agree completely. This approach I have outlined is simply what has worked for me and helped me go from 140-185 natural with little/no fat gains. Someone who is in the same position as I once was may benefit from learning about high-protein high-calorie diets as well as the calorie balance equation. I wish I would have found something as straitforward as this right when I started lifting instead of "spinning my wheels" for a year due to an insufficient diet.

 

[DirkMoneyshot]

To many individuals have this idea that "Fats" are bad - And that is not the case. However what is bad and causes fat gains are the large insulin spikes from "Processed carbohydrates and simple sugars" along with the saturated fats. That is what causes the fat increases. As bodybuilders and people looking to maximize our health we would obviously not be doing this.

A meal of

10 oz. Salmon
12 oz. Potato
1 cup vegtable

Do you think this is going to cause fat gain?? Its still fairly high in fat?

Not all fats and carbs are the same - That is what i would like to point out.

Also congrats on some awesome gains.

 

[AandF6969]

To many individuals have this idea that "Fats" are bad - And that is not the case. However what is bad and causes fat gains are the large insulin spikes from "Processed carbohydrates and simple sugars" along with the saturated fats. That is what causes the fat increases. As bodybuilders and people looking to maximize our health we would obviously not be doing this.

A meal of

10 oz. Salmon
12 oz. Potato
1 cup vegtable

Do you think this is going to cause fat gain?? Its still fairly high in fat?

Not all fats and carbs are the same - That is what i would like to point out.

Also congrats on some awesome gains.

Thanks bro, I worked my ass off!

As far as fat goes, I realize fat is a very anabolic compound and low fat levels are linked to low testosterone levels. I prefer not to mix fats and carbs, and choose to get my fat sources from protein/fat meals. That is what I outlined under my opinion of a "clean bulk" up there. A dirty bulk is definatly just "minimum" requirements for each meal and everything above that is gravy!
I see no problem mixing carbs and fats under this approach. I think I'm going to be doing a "dirty bulk" for my bulking cycle in the fall.

 

[mesomorph]

My logic behind this is that carbhohydrates cause an insulin spike, and while your insulin levels are high there is greater potential for fat storage.


I agree completely. This approach I have outlined is simply what has worked for me and helped me go from 140-185 natural with little/no fat gains. Someone who is in the same position as I once was may benefit from learning about high-protein high-calorie diets as well as the calorie balance equation. I wish I would have found something as straitforward as this right when I started lifting instead of "spinning my wheels" for a year due to an insufficient diet.

Not eating carbs & fat in the same meal is a very popular approach, I read it in articles and hear it around along with all the other current buzz. What you said is the reason given, basically the fat is digested in a semi-ketogenic state so to speak.

I believe what you discovered about your body after you got your nutrition straightened around is that you are not a hardgainer at all after all. In spite of what you think, you did awesome putting on that much weight naturally. If anything you are above average genetically. I am ceratainly not trying to take anything away from your hard efforts, I can tell you worked your arse off, and you look great for sure. I wouldn't mind trading with you in fact, shit, that much gain naturally is impressive enough to make any hardgainer jelious as hell.

 

[AandF6969]

Not eating carbs & fat in the same meal is a very popular approach, I read it in articles and hear it around along with all the other current buzz. What you said is the reason given, basically the fat is digested in a semi-ketogenic state so to speak.

I believe what you discovered about your body after you got your nutrition straightened around is that you are not a hardgainer at all after all. In spite of what you think, you did awesome putting on that much weight naturally. If anything you are above average genetically. I am ceratainly not trying to take anything away from your hard efforts, I can tell you worked your arse off, and you look great for sure. I wouldn't mind trading with you in fact, shit, that much gain naturally is impressive enough to make any hardgainer jelious as hell.

Thanks bro. I believe there ARE hardgainers out there, but I think many people who label themselves as such never really step up their diets so they don't see the results they could. I'd like people to try upping the calories like I've outlined here rather than immediately turning to steroids to make up for an insufficient diet.

 

[1BdMfkr]

I am a hardgainer, started working out 18 yrs old at 140 lbs, got to 175 nat, currently 197 5' 10" 8% 23yrsold. I do not agree with not eating carbs and fat together at all. For me personally, i drink about half a gal of 1% milk a day, you stated stay away from milk, crazy I think milk contributed to a lot of my growth and it has many pros over cons in a bodybuilders diet especially a hardgainers diet... IF you are a True hardgainer, you do not have to worry about putting on fat.. so why worry about putting on fat while trying to bulk up if you can just eat clean for a month and shred up. I am currently in school to be a lisenced nutritionist and have read many of dirk's post, the guy knows nutrition, listen to him he might know a thing or two. I agree with where your coming from AandF about hardgainers not turning to roids before reaching there genetic potential but your post is much to broad and has information that does not really apply to TRUE hardgainers..
oh yea and congrats to your progress as well

 

[AandF6969]

I am a hardgainer, started working out 18 yrs old at 140 lbs, got to 175 nat, currently 197 5' 10" 8% 23yrsold. I do not agree with not eating carbs and fat together at all. For me personally, i drink about half a gal of 1% milk a day, you stated stay away from milk, crazy I think milk contributed to a lot of my growth and it has many pros over cons in a bodybuilders diet especially a hardgainers diet... IF you are a True hardgainer, you do not have to worry about putting on fat.. so why worry about putting on fat while trying to bulk up if you can just eat clean for a month and shred up. I am currently in school to be a lisenced nutritionist and have read many of dirk's post, the guy knows nutrition, listen to him he might know a thing or two. I agree with where your coming from AandF about hardgainers not turning to roids before reaching there genetic potential but your post is much to broad and has information that does not really apply to TRUE hardgainers..
oh yea and congrats to your progress as well

Some people prefer a "clean bulk" and some prefer a "dirty bulk" (What I would call your approach). The dirty bulk is also what I used to get my weight from 140 to 185.

 

[parker210]

i am an extreme ectomorph. Im 22 and 6'2 i started lifting when i was 18 i weighed 160 and i am now at 212 all natural and proud of it, i will use gear when i am at least 25 and around 230 naturally first. safe is the only way to go!

 

[1BdMfkr]

AandF: I realize what you consider a "clean bulk" splitting your carbs and fat with protein intake, I still do not see a need for this if you are a "TRUE" hardgainer. I do what you consider a "dirty bulk" once a year and never go above 10% bf, I have tried your so called clean bulk and for one cannot get enough calories and two do not really see a point in breaking fat and carbs into separate meals. Everyone is different I guess, I will just keep doing what works for me and other ecto's that I have personally seen react the same as myself. Not really a point to this reply other than to say that I have tried your "clean bulk" with little or not gains as opposed to a "dirty bulk" where I eat all clean carbs and fat at different intervals during the day to get my calories where they need to be for me to gain lean body mass. good luck to you with your approach