Help!! Problems on pct and need info about recovery

[kfreeman]

First off a bit about myself ..

Age 30
Height 6'0
Weight 192
Bf% 10

Ok my issue is that I had been working out hard for two years straight maybe only taking weekends off or a Sunday.. I gained a bit of muscle but not much I am a ectomorph.. So after knowing that diet was on point and training was good took myself to the dr.. We did tests and my levels came back at 198 super low test levels.
My dr recommended I get on clomid or test cyp. So I got on trt. 9 months later really was feeling worse than before I got on..

My labs were high cuz I was injecting 300mg test cyp a week
But e2 was normal cuz was on armidex ..


So after bringing my test levels down from 2,500 to 700 or so I still felt crappy
Irritated and negative (always in a funk or fog)

Twards the last months of my trt I was on 60mg anavar for 6 weeks .. When I went to doctor again he referred me to a endo to get thyroid tests done.. My thyroid came back super low!! Dr said that could have been why test levels were low
So I asked to get off trt.. I was not on hcg wile on trt and nuts did shrink concidriable amount... I told my dr about all the research I did in his form about hcg and clomid and got a script.. So my pct was hcg 2500 iu 3 times a week. For 8 shots then started 100 mg clomid for two weeks then dropped it cuz vision started up. My doc prescribed me 100 mg btw I had seen about ppl posting pct with 50 mg neways I dropped it to 50 mg and now am at 25 mg two weeks into clomid.
So total of about 4 weeks no test on pct.. My balls still have not recovered and wanna know when shouod I expect to regain my normal feeling and test levels if I even can get them up.. Labs come in tomorrow will post them

How much longer shouod I run pct since I was on trt for 9 months?

 

[bushleaguechew]

You might be stuck on TRT and levothyroxine permanently at this point.

 

[Megatron28]

We need to see your blood work to try and figure out what is going on with you. Pre-TRT and during TRT.

 

[kfreeman]

Ok cool ima get all my bloodwork gathered tomorrow .. I was regular on getting it done so that is not a issue.. Currently I have not lost any muscle on pct .. I get regular bod pod tests done went from 7% bf to 10% that's bout the main change in body composition though..

Really appreciate the help guys doctors don't seem to know shit, they got me worse off then before trt!!!

Standby for bloodwork tomorrow late afternoon ... ***55357;***56490;

 

[kfreeman]

ok now that i have a min to sit down... been up since 5 training clients ( sure not enough rest wont help with recovery !!)


here are lab results from original pre trt to current ones from today



first labs:

tsh 4.45 ref .34-5.60
fsh 2.56 ref 1.27-19.26
Lh 1.62 ref 1.21-8.62
prolactin 6.8 ref 2.64-13.13
shbg 17.20 ref 13.3-89.5
test total 192.0 ref 300-870
test free 5.0 ref 9.0-30.0

now idk why he did not test e2 but i had no idea about this stuff before i ventured into trt and steroids.. so did not ask

here are the labs done wile i was on trt ima post one they all are really close except e2 fluctuated i will post those

alb 4.0 ref 3.5-4.8
shbg 15.60 ref 13.30-89.50
test total 1446.0 ref 300-870
test free 53.0 ref 9.0-30.0
test bio 1160.0 ref 40.0-257
e2 33 ref,<20-47


now my e2 did fluctuate as i played with my ai to dial in dose went from like 110 my nipps where so sore especialy doing cable flys that was the highest before a ai to 23 was the low tried to keep it at mid 20's with .25eod


all in all good growth on trt and anavar was like 27 lbs was super happy felt ok then things just got strange got irritated often was negative then the shittiest part was i started to get monotone just in my mood and everythung a i dont care attitude
and just no emotion i was thinking coulda been e2 but not sure

i know my labs should have had more stuff throughout trt like lh fsh ect...but did not know much then over the past year i learned a ton just reading these fourms...

so this is my next lab this is when i switched dr to a endo cuz my dr did not know shit!!!


am cortisol 12.24
psa 0.5
free t4 0.56 low
t3 total 76.00 low
tsh 1.26
estridol 64 i know it is high had run out of ai for a couple days
fsh 0.20
lh 0.31
prolactin 7.5
alb 4.1
shbg 6.70 low
test total 1123 high
test free 45.0 high
andrenocorticotropic hormone 12


this was the bloodwork done i know my thyroid is low so thats what i am going to look in to now need a mri of pituitary gland

so i also got bloodwork today it looks the same exept test is super low at 168.2 fuck!!!!!


so my bod pod test also were done today i have lost 1/2 lb muscle and 2 lbs water weight but 3 lbs fat loss i eat 3,423 cals a day maybe a bit more on some days if i throw in a extra bowl of oats its all clean food and diet is on point im a nutrition coach as well as a trainer.. the main thing is that i wanna be my old self again happy and fun trt changed me and idk wy but i dont hink i could live with low test either i feel so drained at the test levels im at also am always hungry like for shitty food i could hammer two large pizzas and be hungry but body cant eat more might be thyroid or somthiung

also read thyroid could cause these symptoms ne wyas im on clomid now and pray im secondary and not primary hypergonadal
cuz i dont think i could ever dial in my trt spent a year trying and just lost myself in the life of studing and reaservh this shit has become a full time job trying to get my body on track

please help and give me advice

 

[kfreeman]

btw apologies for spelling and punctuation in a hurry and only had limited time to blow through this typing

 

[Megatron28]

I am a little confused.

What is going on with your TSH (thyroid)? Earlier labs put you in hypothyroid territory. Now it looks good. Are you taking anything for it?

Did I read correctly that you are off Test now and you are taking clomid? Are you trying to do a restart?

I am lost as far as what protocol you were on for each set of results. It seems like you have monkeyed around with your protocol so much that I don't see how anyone can tell what is going on. You have run a blast. You have used anavar. You don't take your AI regularly. And so on. No wonder you never felt like you could get dialed in. You seem to lack patience. I'm not trying to be a big asshole. But I feel like this needs to be said to you. Getting dialed in on TRT can be a long and slow process. It takes many guys 6-12 months to get dialed in when they do it right.

 

[kfreeman]

sorry for the confusion dude lol

so let me explain a bit better more background...

im not sure if this matters.. but will start from the first issue.. i was a hard drug addict for 10 years everything under the sun perscription pills to crack and heroin... i did it all and almost died a couple times.. (maybe the reason for endocrine problems?) then i changed my life i got sober had 4 years then got into fitness.. this changed everything
i then decided from that point i was gonna learn everything so spent 2 years reading taking certification clases and training.. but the issue was i could not gain muscle maybe one or two lbs in the two years i was dedicated and had nutritional certifications and knew about macros and nutrient timing now i did burn fat and got shredded down to like 6% but was skinny and a skinny guy with abs is just like a fat chick with tits. the two years i spent trying to get big seemed to be a waste wile my lifting buddies were gettin great gains... i was so angry and pissed cuz i put in so much work waking up at 5 am training ,sleeping early, not going out everything to grow!!!! so figured something was up went to dr and found test levels low.. the very first labs i posted... i believe thats the one with thyroid levels that look good..... this was before trt ..


then i got on trt was on 100mg a week for bout 2 months with ai regularly and kept everything standard .. then i decided hey if im gonna be on trt for life and be shut down practically i was already shut down at below 200 test levels..might as well do a light cycle and just stay there for a wile because i was not gonna be getting off trt.. so started 300mg test cyp for about 7 months also in that seven months was one anavar cycle and one dbol cycle got good gains was just feeling crappy the whole time on everything all labs i got done said my test levels were high and was keeping e2 in check so did not know what was wrong.. well the longer i stayed on trt the more frustrated and negative i got with life.. so i dropped my dose back down to what dr prescribed.. and kept it that way for a couple months to see if i felt better but nothing .. then i remembered my doctor telling me before trt if i wanted i could try clomid.. but at the time i was just interested in trt cuz i figured it would cure all my symptoms noty just the muscle problems but all the symptoms of low t i had.. no energy could not sleep ect.. bout the only thing that was good was sex drive... so the new dr and i discussed clomid and hcg... since the original doctor told me nothing about hcg before trt i was not on it during.. the new doctor ordered labs before this venture and that was the second to last labs i posted ..yhe doctor told me my thyroid was low and that was a issue but as of now im trying to get test to normal levels if thats evenm possible.. was wondering if the test anavar and dbol coulda messed up thyroid ? is that possible? my test levels already super low befor trt but was not sure if it was low test cuz of drug abuse over the years or cuz of genetics.. so i did hcg 2500iu for about 10 shots eod and then started clomid 100 mg for two weeks then tapered down .. i currently am trying to do a restart to see if my body can produce test my question is how long could it take me on clomid to restart im only on 25 mg ed cuz anything more hurts my eyes.. through this whole pct protocol my balls have not come back much .. was wondering at a blast for so long if my body was to restart how long would it take and .. if im not near my genetic potential will i loose my muscle at below 200 test level.. is that enough test in a man to sustain muscle mass.. like i said im 10% bout 188 and was not sure if my body cpouold hold on to that muscle i gained... just wondering mainly those two things and if restart does not work after a couple months on clomid should i try again or try hcg and see if my test levels come up on that? because if my test does not come up on hcg that means my balls just cant produce it correct ??

again sorry for confusion and hope this adds clarity tp some stuff....

 

[kfreeman]

btw not taking anything for thyroid dont know much about thyroid and tests.. can u explain what looks low and normal and a bit about it?

 

[Megatron28]

That sheds little light on things, but you are still all over the place.

Since your doc suggested clomid in the beginning, I am going to assumed you were diagnosed with Secondary Hypogonadism. In that case, a restart may be possible. At your age it is definitely worth a try. You probably should have run the HCG longer, but too late for that. So stick with the clomid. You will probably need to stay on the clomid for 4-6 weeks. Get some blood work to confirm you responded to the clomid (TT, LH, FSH, Estradiol). After this, the true test begins. You go off the clomid and see if you body maintains higher TT levels on its own. Wait a couple of months and get more blood work.

If the restart doesn't prove effective, you will likely need to go on TRT. IF you do go back on TRT stop fucking around and get your protocol dialed in. I get the sense that you are a very impatient person. That is not a good personality trait for TRT. When you make an adjustment to your protocol you often have to give it a month or two before you can assess its effectiveness. Only try to change one variable at a time. Be smart about this. When you get things dialed in, and you will, then you can consider running a blast.

I just want to confirm something -- when you took avanar and dbol, did you keep taking your testosterone as well?

OK -- lets talk thyroid. High TSH numbers indicates Hypothyroidism. Low TST numbers indicate Hyperthyroidism. Your very first results 4.45. I know your reference range says that anything below 5.6 is normal, but that is incorrect. Most endos consider anything about 3.0 to indicate Hypothyroidism. Hypothyoidism is not good. And you should also note that it can be a cause of Hypogonadism. But what is confusing is that your next labs put your TSH at 1.26. You will see that it is in the reference range. 1.26 is a healthy result for TSH. So I think you need to confirm your TSH results and figure out what is going on with your thyroid. It is strange to see te results swing that much.

I want to comment on one other thing you said. You talked about TRT partially shutting you down. That isn't right. You natural production is 100% shut down when you take exogenous testosterone. If you take HCG your testicles will keep making some test. Now that you are on clomid you are trying to get your natural test production restored to a healthy level. Hopefully it works.

P.S. Paragraphs, capitals, and punctuation really help the reader that you are asking to help you. Please take the time and put in the effort to make it easier for the reader to read your posts.

 

[kfreeman]

thanx so much man for your help man it does mean a lot to me.
i will talk to my doctor about the thyroid after i get the mri she ordered.. also yes i am a bit impatient and it sucks somthing i really need to work on.. GOD WILLING i will be able to restart..

to answer your question yes i was on test throughout my anavar and dbol cycle. i can honestly say the oxandralone was by far the best compound out of the two. (at least how my body responded)

also sorry for the grammar and punctuation issues. i never get on the computer and typing takes me forever.

i will keep all yall posted on things for future ppl to read and get info on.

can i ask you a question now?
how long have ya been doing this ?you are on lots of fourms helping ppl and seem to have a vast amount of knowledge.

are u on trt or do u cycle? i still am on this journey and if i dont restart and get back on trt wanna do it right with guidance from dr and other guys with hands on experience..


thanx again man greatfull for ur info!

 

[Megatron28]

thanx so much man for your help man it does mean a lot to me.
i will talk to my doctor about the thyroid after i get the mri she ordered.. also yes i am a bit impatient and it sucks somthing i really need to work on.. GOD WILLING i will be able to restart..

to answer your question yes i was on test throughout my anavar and dbol cycle. i can honestly say the oxandralone was by far the best compound out of the two. (at least how my body responded)

also sorry for the grammar and punctuation issues. i never get on the computer and typing takes me forever.

i will keep all yall posted on things for future ppl to read and get info on.

can i ask you a question now?
how long have ya been doing this ?you are on lots of fourms helping ppl and seem to have a vast amount of knowledge.

are u on trt or do u cycle? i still am on this journey and if i dont restart and get back on trt wanna do it right with guidance from dr and other guys with hands on experience..


thanx again man greatfull for ur info!

I have been on TRT for two years. I have secondary hypogonadism. I have learned a lot by hanging around this site and I want to try and pay it forward. I would have been lost without 'Ology.

I have also ran a few blasts. Getting test levels back up to normal feels so good after you have had Low T for so long. It is very tempting to want to see what a blast feels like. I gave in to the temptation.

 

[kfreeman]

Good stuff man.. Got two more questions for ya

1) if I'm on clomid do I need to take ai? Was reading that some ppl do. Is it needed?

2) when I was on 100 mg of clomid for two weeks my vision got crazy! Kinda like a acid flashback it freaked me out . So I dropped it to 50 mg and eyes kinda hurt a bit so now I'm at 25 I feel fine no wisdom problems sore eyes. But in the morning when I wake up and come into the kitchen and flip on the light I have about 2 sec of tracers .. Wonder if it's from the 100mg that messed me up or if the 25 mg is still fucking with me.. If so any alternatives to clomid that I can take
I still have 6 scripts for hcg but prob should not go back to that after I have been on clomid for two weeks right?

 

[Megatron28]

Good stuff man.. Got two more questions for ya

1) if I'm on clomid do I need to take ai? Was reading that some ppl do. Is it needed?

2) when I was on 100 mg of clomid for two weeks my vision got crazy! Kinda like a acid flashback it freaked me out . So I dropped it to 50 mg and eyes kinda hurt a bit so now I'm at 25 I feel fine no wisdom problems sore eyes. But in the morning when I wake up and come into the kitchen and flip on the light I have about 2 sec of tracers .. Wonder if it's from the 100mg that messed me up or if the 25 mg is still fucking with me.. If so any alternatives to clomid that I can take
I still have 6 scripts for hcg but prob should not go back to that after I have been on clomid for two weeks right?

You may need an AI. Get blood work to see where your E2 is at.

Vision problems is one of the risks when using SERM's -- including Clomid. I am not aware of a substitute, but talk to your doc.