Injection problems

[Newcomer927]

Hello people, thank you in advance for taking the time to look into this post as you will realise how much of an idiot I have been.

Stats
5ft 11"
175lb
guessing around 12-14% bf

Basically I have started my first cycle and I have been pretty stupid. Before any problems occurred I was going to go ahead with dbol for 4 weeks at 30mg a day alongside test 450 at 2cc p/w which is a blend of 200mg Testosterone Enanthate, 150mg Testosterone Cypionate, 100mg Testosterone Propionate to every cc. I injected 2cc of test 450 in my right glute (top right portion) last Saturday and it has become very swollen, painful, slightly red (however the redness has went down) and restricts my movement a lot.

I am unaware what the needle size was as my friend did the jab for me (he has injected many of times before and had no problems) and as ive researched I know it could have went a bit more smoothly to say the least, guess its just me being young and stupid. I know the needles were clean and came from a trustworthy source and I am pretty sure that I don't have an infection as I do not have a fever and have spoke with the NHS helpline who told me to keep an eye on it for the next couple of days.

From my research I have decided I am going to run 30mg dbol ED and .75cc of test 450 twice per week (Monday and Thursday) instead of 2cc p/w to allow my body to break the test down more smoothly and not have to deal with this pain. I know it was overkill doing 2cc all at once for the first cycle, I wont be as naive next time around.

PCT also looks like this:
Nolvadex 40/40/20/20

So I am just wondering if anyone has any advice on what could speed up the recovery process or what has went wrong, maybe someone has had this before. I appreciate anything you guys have to say and would really like a few responses if I am not asking too much.

 

[jrl0022]

Okay, so you have test 450 and you took 2cc shot? That's 900mg in your virgin muscle. There lies your probelm. Put some heat on it and massage the area.

 

[jonesfarm]

Okay, so you have test 450 and you took 2cc shot? That's 900mg in your virgin muscle. There lies your probelm. Put some heat on it and massage the area.

x2
also I have learned for me that a high mg test always use 1.5 inch pins and let it sit there bout 30 secs after inj. before you take out.

 

[clman8585]

900mg of test hell fucking yea! Zeus status.

 

[juced_porkchop]

Okay, so you have test 450 and you took 2cc shot? That's 900mg in your virgin muscle. There lies your probelm. Put some heat on it and massage the area.

dont massage the ares is will lead to more irritation and possible tissue damage.. I agree with he rest though 100%.

 

[juced_porkchop]

400-600mg test ew for 12-14 weeks NOT 900mg ew
that more than i do on most cycles.

I also rec juts using the test and no dbol but w/e.

 

[Vino 1]

I did 400mg of test on my first cycle and was very pleased with the results. 900 is a good bit for anyone to do. I would stick to just that. Just my opinion tho. But u really need to be more aware of what your doing before u just go having people jab points into u. Be safe

 

[gtower]

Agree with Vino 1. Just test in the first is good and 900 is a ton. Most recommend 500/wk test for a first cycle and this worked great for me. Not so much to worry about with sides, and see how your body reacts.

 

[Newcomer927]

Thanks for the replies. Just leaving another post for anyone who may have had the same symptoms as me and is looking on the internet for some advice because I was often mislead into thinking I had something more serious. I think jrl0022 hit the nail on the head with what had happened, the swelling has went down considerably, the redness is gone, pain is still around but a lot less and the range of movement still isn't the best but is also a lot better, a few more days and I believe I will be back to normal. Rest is the key to get back onto the road for recovery if you are stupid enough to put 900mg of test into virgin muscle tissue, lol embarrassing.

 

[VirginMuscle]

Originally posted by Fraggle


First, there are five primary causes of injection pain.

1) High Benzyl Alcohol content.

Benzyl Alcohol (BA) is used to increase the lipid solubility of esterfied compounds and to prevent bacteria growth in the oil. Most UGL's use excess BA or only BA as the co-solvent, due to it's modest price. Unfortunately, it can cause the destruction of cells and significant localised pain and inflammation. The discomfort is characterised by fairly rapid onset of a painful, red, swollen area. This can be ameliorated by diluting the compound with sterile cutting oil (grapeseed, cottonseed, sesameseed). A 1:1 ratio often works well.

2) Precipitation of short estered compounds

The shorter an ester, the less solubility is has in oil. This necessitates higher concentrations of BA to prevent the compound from 'crashing' out of solution. When the oil is injected, the BA is absorbed from the location of the oil depot. This caused the active compound to precipitate fine crystals within the muscle. The onset of this pain is often 4-12 hours after injection and is characterised by a hard, red, swelling at the injection site. To prevent this an additional co-solvent is needed, benzyl benzoate. BB maintains solubility of the esterfied compound past the point at which BA has been removed, preventing crystaline precipitation. Most UGL's don't add this to their compounded oils due to the higher cost. If added at approximately 20% by volume you can prevent most associated short ester pain.

3) High concentration (mg/ml)

Per above, Long ester = high solubility, short ester = less solubility. Human grade pharmaceutical hormones are almost never dosed higher then 200mg/ml for long esters (cypionate). To increase the concentration, a larger amount of BA is necessary as a co-solvent. This can result in a similar reaction to that caused by short esters with pain and swelling as the BA is absorbed and solubility decreases and precipitation occurs. In this instance you don't 'need' the additional co-solvent (BB, but it still helps!). Instead, you can simply dilute the compounding oil with sterile cutting oil to lower the concentration to within the solubility for that ester.

4) Fascia displacement

This occurs when a large volumetric quantity is injected into a single site. The oil pushes the muscle fascia apart and results in stretching and eventually scarring with the muscle. This can be avoided by reducing single site injection volume and spreading the injections between multiple sites. This is also a good idea as more smaller, more frequent dosing significantly reduces many of the side effects of AAS. These become exacerbated by peak and troughs in hormone levels. The reduction in side effects is particularly dramatic with trenbolone acetate when an ED injection schedule is maintained.

5) Histamine reaction

This doesn't occur as often, but is still a potential possibility. For a compound to become biologically active the ester must be cleaved from the parent molecule. This results in the formation of a carboxylic acid. Some people find that they are sensitive to one of these. This results in swelling, warmth, redness and possibly a rash at the injection site. In the worst instance the individual may have an existing allergy to the carrier oil (sessame, etc...) that can result in anaphylaxis (swelling and occlusion of the airway) in addition to localised inflammation. If any histamine reaction results, immediately discontinue use and switch to an alternate carrier oil and/or alternate ester. If anaphylaxis results, immediately seek medical attention.


Ultimately I break these down into the following set of rules.

1) Dilute compound with sterile cutting oil to get mg/ml at <=200 for long esters and <=100 for short esters.
2) Add 20% benzyl benzoate by volume to propionate and phenylpropionate esters.
3) Use a 23g needle to prevent high output pressure from smaller needles
4) Inject very slowly to reduce muscle fascia displacement
5) Inject frequently w/ less volume, <3ml for large muscles and <2ml for smaller muscles
6) Rotate sites every time (I use six sites)
7) Gently warm the oil to improve viscosity
8) Ensure that the injection is deep intra-muscular and fully through any sub cutaneous fat

You can also add:
100mg benadryl one hour prior to injection
800mg ibuprofen one hour prior to injection

However, the ibuprofen will reduce the activity of autocrine based transcription and activity of PGE and PGF so continued use can result in less muscle hypertrophy.