Arkham Asylum
New member
I hit the search button, read posted articles and previous questions on the site before posting this. From ghosting a bit and seeing forum responses, I think people inclined to help someone out like more, rather than less, information, so this could get long-ish on the first post, but hopefully it'll let experienced users offer more insight (and thank you for taking the time).
Background. I have a license and a career where legal troubles would ruin my life. I don't want to be a pro-BB, not because I don't think they're pretty awesome or because I'm a hater, but simply because any realistic chance of that happening to me has passed. I lift A} to keep violent, mentally ill criminals from attacking me B} (failing that) to be big enough and strong enough to fight in close quarters until help comes. Also, C} if I can wrangle the legal system to get any boost I can to look better, well, I won't cry, I'm pretty human like that.
Every 10 days I take an IM of test-cy which keeps my level at "high normal," with blood tests done every 3-4 months. This is legal HRT, adding extra illegal gear isn't something I want to risk procuring unless I meet a connection personally whom I trust. Not needing to get to freak or pro levels, my HRT wasn't doing a bad job of working at its level. I'd like to add more, but this seems okay. However, after discovering insulin (specifically the "R" kind) is legal and, that insulin is "the most anabolic hormone," it seemed like I could be leaving muscle gains on the table.
First thing you read is "slin will kill you, bro!" Okay, true enough, but what did that really mean? I researched the forum, went back and thought about the diabetic calls I worked when I was an EMT, and the endocrinology stuff I learned getting my nursing license. I concluded there were risks (obviously) but they could be slotted broadly into a couple of easy categories. First, you're an asshat and don't understand the difference between IUs and CCs, and you kill yourself. That's not going to happen with me. Secondly, you go hypoglycemic and die from not staying alert through the whole 6-8 hours "R" is active. This can pretty much be remedied like on my EMT calls by knowing the symptoms and eating some damn simple carbs, or better yet, drinking them. Thirdly, what does long term use do to your own system. I learned outside insulin doesn't "turn off your pancreas" the way AAS hits your own T-production, but long term, you could experience insulin resistance.
I started with 3ius post workout and 10g of carbs per IU. Rather quickly I found, for me, 10g isn't needed, I was fine on 5-6, but I kept fruit juice on hand in case I felt myself drop (also that my shots seemed to last more like 6 hours than 8). I also discussed normal medical use with diabetics asking "if you're going to eat X amount of calories, then how much would you pin?" Quickly I jumped up to 7-10iu pwo with no problems. Going back to these forums I saw use (second hand information about more advanced users not withstanding) was in the 15-20iu range. I went to 15iu quickly. With each new jump I felt nauseas, fuzzy mentally, and lethargic the first time, so I slammed carbs. All good. On the second use of the larger dose I didn't have those feelings and I could start figuring out how little carbs to protein ratio I truly needed. I'm now using 25iu, pwo, 5x per week.
After 3 full weeks and heading into the 4th here's what I've learned, at least as it pertains to me. There's a freakin' world of difference between 20ius and 10. When I swapped out my whey protein for actual packaged BCAAs and moved my creatine consumption from breakfast to my post workout meal (20-30mins after the shot) then WOW were we talking a different experience, especially when I added in a little bit of iron (which I'll explain below). I'm going to be wrapping this round of use up now, as general consensus seems to be no more than 4 weeks on at a time with a good, long breather between cycles.
My gains are as following, broken into objective and subjective categories. Objectively, I gained 8lbs. I think if I'd started that first week taking more and using the BCAAs + Creatine in pwo meal gains would have been better. Strength. When people say "most anabolic" they're not just talking about mass. My workout weights took much bigger jumps than I would have normally experienced and I was able to comfortably increase both exercise volume and frequency as I went along. Subjectively: I don't need to be shredded for why I'm doing this. So weight gain that might be "sloppy" in BB circles isn't that bad for me (within reason, obviously) but once you understand how you react, I think getting ALL fat out of the pwo meal is important, and eating only as much fat as you need for the next 6 hours is very, very smart. I didn't take measurements, but I have 3 sets of jeans, 34" waist, 33" waist, and 32" waist. I'm at typical when I'm wearing the 33" pants. From Thanksgiving to New Year I wear the 34". Starting in May or early June I change my workout and try to fit into the 32"s. On the insulin I gained 8lbs of weight in 3.5 weeks and moved comfortably down into my 32" pants. When I changed my pwo protocol my vascularity and perception of muscle "fullness" exploded. You can't really scientifically quantify those qualities, I know, but man, visually, it was a world of difference. Long story short? Insulin works, and not just for the cutting edge of the tip pro-elites. It's just freakin' anabolic, no matter who you are, or if you have HgH and are running large amounts of test.
Here are my questions. I tried going back and reading my nursing/medic books and came to the opinion, not including some specialists with endocrinologist medical degrees, that hardcore BBs seem to know more about using this stuff for physique/performance than you can find in medical journals. Hence my asking here.
I've read of guys taking 80-100ius a day. That's a true commitment and you'd have to eat awesome, as if your life depended on it, but as long as you had a gallon fruit juice nearby, I imagine you could do even that much and not go hypo, or really have trouble with insulin fat storage if you were disciplined. But, with insulin is "more" really "more"? That is, are gains truly so much better as to have to deal with the potential hassle? Anyone here run that much or train with someone who has? Two, long term, has anyone known someone who's run insulin long enough to truly be at risk, truly, for insulin resistance? There's about absolutely ZERO real medical information readily available. If you find something then the fear factor starts overriding common sense (i.e. like back in the 80s about how too much T would make you a crazed killer ape, only now there's guys doing 3,500mg per week in pl circles and not becoming mass murders).
Does anyone know how long, and how much you can take before you're needlessly taking risks for the gain reward or tempting fate with insulin resistance? Also, if using a second dose upon waking, or even using a safer, but longer acting insulin (such as Lantus) with the fast(er) actin R a large difference in performance? It seems, so far, like the insulin, works awesome post workout when your muscle cells are crying out for nutrition--but I don't know how "anabolic receptive" you are the rest of the day and if fat storage might become an issue.
Thanks guys, I know that ran long, and I left out my workout as possibly unneeded information at this point, but hopefully those who are more experienced than me can give me some info, or at least hints.
Background. I have a license and a career where legal troubles would ruin my life. I don't want to be a pro-BB, not because I don't think they're pretty awesome or because I'm a hater, but simply because any realistic chance of that happening to me has passed. I lift A} to keep violent, mentally ill criminals from attacking me B} (failing that) to be big enough and strong enough to fight in close quarters until help comes. Also, C} if I can wrangle the legal system to get any boost I can to look better, well, I won't cry, I'm pretty human like that.
Every 10 days I take an IM of test-cy which keeps my level at "high normal," with blood tests done every 3-4 months. This is legal HRT, adding extra illegal gear isn't something I want to risk procuring unless I meet a connection personally whom I trust. Not needing to get to freak or pro levels, my HRT wasn't doing a bad job of working at its level. I'd like to add more, but this seems okay. However, after discovering insulin (specifically the "R" kind) is legal and, that insulin is "the most anabolic hormone," it seemed like I could be leaving muscle gains on the table.
First thing you read is "slin will kill you, bro!" Okay, true enough, but what did that really mean? I researched the forum, went back and thought about the diabetic calls I worked when I was an EMT, and the endocrinology stuff I learned getting my nursing license. I concluded there were risks (obviously) but they could be slotted broadly into a couple of easy categories. First, you're an asshat and don't understand the difference between IUs and CCs, and you kill yourself. That's not going to happen with me. Secondly, you go hypoglycemic and die from not staying alert through the whole 6-8 hours "R" is active. This can pretty much be remedied like on my EMT calls by knowing the symptoms and eating some damn simple carbs, or better yet, drinking them. Thirdly, what does long term use do to your own system. I learned outside insulin doesn't "turn off your pancreas" the way AAS hits your own T-production, but long term, you could experience insulin resistance.
I started with 3ius post workout and 10g of carbs per IU. Rather quickly I found, for me, 10g isn't needed, I was fine on 5-6, but I kept fruit juice on hand in case I felt myself drop (also that my shots seemed to last more like 6 hours than 8). I also discussed normal medical use with diabetics asking "if you're going to eat X amount of calories, then how much would you pin?" Quickly I jumped up to 7-10iu pwo with no problems. Going back to these forums I saw use (second hand information about more advanced users not withstanding) was in the 15-20iu range. I went to 15iu quickly. With each new jump I felt nauseas, fuzzy mentally, and lethargic the first time, so I slammed carbs. All good. On the second use of the larger dose I didn't have those feelings and I could start figuring out how little carbs to protein ratio I truly needed. I'm now using 25iu, pwo, 5x per week.
After 3 full weeks and heading into the 4th here's what I've learned, at least as it pertains to me. There's a freakin' world of difference between 20ius and 10. When I swapped out my whey protein for actual packaged BCAAs and moved my creatine consumption from breakfast to my post workout meal (20-30mins after the shot) then WOW were we talking a different experience, especially when I added in a little bit of iron (which I'll explain below). I'm going to be wrapping this round of use up now, as general consensus seems to be no more than 4 weeks on at a time with a good, long breather between cycles.
My gains are as following, broken into objective and subjective categories. Objectively, I gained 8lbs. I think if I'd started that first week taking more and using the BCAAs + Creatine in pwo meal gains would have been better. Strength. When people say "most anabolic" they're not just talking about mass. My workout weights took much bigger jumps than I would have normally experienced and I was able to comfortably increase both exercise volume and frequency as I went along. Subjectively: I don't need to be shredded for why I'm doing this. So weight gain that might be "sloppy" in BB circles isn't that bad for me (within reason, obviously) but once you understand how you react, I think getting ALL fat out of the pwo meal is important, and eating only as much fat as you need for the next 6 hours is very, very smart. I didn't take measurements, but I have 3 sets of jeans, 34" waist, 33" waist, and 32" waist. I'm at typical when I'm wearing the 33" pants. From Thanksgiving to New Year I wear the 34". Starting in May or early June I change my workout and try to fit into the 32"s. On the insulin I gained 8lbs of weight in 3.5 weeks and moved comfortably down into my 32" pants. When I changed my pwo protocol my vascularity and perception of muscle "fullness" exploded. You can't really scientifically quantify those qualities, I know, but man, visually, it was a world of difference. Long story short? Insulin works, and not just for the cutting edge of the tip pro-elites. It's just freakin' anabolic, no matter who you are, or if you have HgH and are running large amounts of test.
Here are my questions. I tried going back and reading my nursing/medic books and came to the opinion, not including some specialists with endocrinologist medical degrees, that hardcore BBs seem to know more about using this stuff for physique/performance than you can find in medical journals. Hence my asking here.
I've read of guys taking 80-100ius a day. That's a true commitment and you'd have to eat awesome, as if your life depended on it, but as long as you had a gallon fruit juice nearby, I imagine you could do even that much and not go hypo, or really have trouble with insulin fat storage if you were disciplined. But, with insulin is "more" really "more"? That is, are gains truly so much better as to have to deal with the potential hassle? Anyone here run that much or train with someone who has? Two, long term, has anyone known someone who's run insulin long enough to truly be at risk, truly, for insulin resistance? There's about absolutely ZERO real medical information readily available. If you find something then the fear factor starts overriding common sense (i.e. like back in the 80s about how too much T would make you a crazed killer ape, only now there's guys doing 3,500mg per week in pl circles and not becoming mass murders).
Does anyone know how long, and how much you can take before you're needlessly taking risks for the gain reward or tempting fate with insulin resistance? Also, if using a second dose upon waking, or even using a safer, but longer acting insulin (such as Lantus) with the fast(er) actin R a large difference in performance? It seems, so far, like the insulin, works awesome post workout when your muscle cells are crying out for nutrition--but I don't know how "anabolic receptive" you are the rest of the day and if fat storage might become an issue.
Thanks guys, I know that ran long, and I left out my workout as possibly unneeded information at this point, but hopefully those who are more experienced than me can give me some info, or at least hints.
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