Long Cycle PCT - Suggestions? Thoughts?

[tomyo]

Hey everyone. I'm a longtime lurker and I know that this community is helpful and supportive, so I'm bringing this here:

I ran a very long cycle and it was very hard on my body. Now I'm trying to fix all of the damage. This post is a log of my PCT efforts, so that (1) people in similar situations can observe what did and didn't work for me, and (2) people who have CONSTRUCTIVE feedback can offer it. If you have any ideas, I'm all ears.

I know that what I did was stupid and if all you want to do is remind me of that, please keep it to yourself because it will clutter the thread.

I'm 25 and was on cycle for nearly two years (I know that this is too young and also too long a cycle). This was really a couple of cycles...I hated the idea of losing my hard-earned gains and I just couldn't bare to cycle off. I have an affinity for Tren and never struggled with sides other than suppression, so I used Tren E at 400mg a week and Test E at 250mg a week for the last several months. Before that, it was just Test at a higher dosage.

But obviously, this took a toll--notably, on my libido. It's dead. It's VERY dead. In fact, it was dead the last months of my cycle too. This is probably for a few reasons: my use of letro, my intermittent use of propecia...could have been any one of those. I never really lost my desire to have sex. Actually, I still masturbated several times a day (my drive was always a little high). But full erections are an impossibility right now. I want that back.

I know that I fucked up and that this could take a long time to fix. I haven't had bloods done yet because I'm still on the PCT; my body is full of clomid and hcg and all sorts of other chemicals that would prevent an accurate blood analysis. I'll look into this when my system is clear.

_____________________PCT_________________________
1. Last four weeks of cycle, ran 2000iu of hcg weekly, except for the last week when I discovered I had an extra vial. I ran 4000iu the last week.

2. This is my PCT Plan. I started two weeks after my last pin and a few days after my last HCG shot:
Weeks 1-2: Clomid 100mg / Nolva 20mg / Clen 80mcg
Weeks 3-4: Clomid 50mg / Nolva 20mg / Clen 40mcg

3. Other supplements I'm taking daily:
-Vitamin D - 5000iu
-Maca root

_________________________________________________

So, that's where I'm at. I'm thinking that if this doesn't work, I'll repeat the whole thing: one month HCG therapy (maybe a higher dose), then one month clomid and nolva. What do you make of this plan?


_________________________________________________
Update 1: After One Week
One week in and I've noticed little difference except for very low energy levels. I think towards the end my testicles may have grown a little but I may be imagining it. Libido still gone. This is pretty normal, there is some consensus that even in the best of cases recovery doesn't start until after two weeks or so.

 

[LateStart]

Shouldn't be taking clomid and hcg together. HCG should stop when pct starts. Did you have precycle bloodwork done? And unfortunately, you wont know where you're at until you get post cycle bloodwork. Anyway, I like clomid at 50mg per day for the first week followed by 25mg for 4 more weeks. Low dose nolva in there for 3 or 4 weeks. Then get bloods four weeks after that and see where I'm at. That's just me.
Curious to see what kind of advice ya get.
Good luck bro

 

[tomyo]

Don't worry, I'm not taking them together. I took HCG the last four weeks of my cycle and then started the clomid. Unfortunately, I didn't have precycle bloodwork. I pretty much made every mistake possible with this thing.

I dig your clomid and nolva strategy. I'm trying a version of that too. Thanks for the support man

 

[tomyo]

Update 2: Middle of Week 3
So, I haven't really noticed any substantial growth in my testicles, I think they have grown a little but I may be imagining it. However, my libido is returning, very slowly but I can feel it. And I can get boners again with chemical help, even if they aren't as hard as I'm used to. Hopefully this progress will continue in the coming weeks.

 

[scorob777]

I'll give you a couple of comments.

Total dose of enanthate was 400 + 250 = 650 mg/wk. The pause after last shot to start of TRT for that dosage is a bit over three weeks. Waiting two weeks was not enough time, so I would consider that first week of PCT as lost - and needing to be tacked onto the back end.

After two years on cycle the run of HCG seems very minimal. I would probably go for something like 1,000 IU/day for three to four weeks - and after that three or four I'd check ball size and probably get a blood test to see if my body was making any test. If both look good then I'd transition into PCT, if not I'd continue to run HCG until I saw results.

And PCT duration of 4 weeks is really minimal, especially for a two year cycle. I'd be looking more toward six weeks. And keep in mind the first comment about starting too soon and wasting the first week - so in summary I'd tack on three more weeks of PCT to the end. This could be at low doses like 25 clomid and 20 nolva.

The vitamin D is a great idea. I like maca too, but not sure it helps in this scenario. Also make sure you are getting zinc, fish oil, and eating plenty of saturated fats.

 

[tomyo]

Update 3: End of Week 4
My libido is back and I can get erections again without any problems. I actually forgot how inconvenient that can be...I accidentally got a few at really inappropriate times. But it's back and that's all I care about. My balls have grown a little, but they are still not at their normal size. Based on my progress thus far, I think that a full recovery will happen, but it may take a while. I think I'm going to use more HCG to expedite this (more info below).

I'll give you a couple of comments.

Total dose of enanthate was 400 + 250 = 650 mg/wk. The pause after last shot to start of TRT for that dosage is a bit over three weeks. Waiting two weeks was not enough time, so I would consider that first week of PCT as lost - and needing to be tacked onto the back end.

After two years on cycle the run of HCG seems very minimal. I would probably go for something like 1,000 IU/day for three to four weeks - and after that three or four I'd check ball size and probably get a blood test to see if my body was making any test. If both look good then I'd transition into PCT, if not I'd continue to run HCG until I saw results.

And PCT duration of 4 weeks is really minimal, especially for a two year cycle. I'd be looking more toward six weeks. And keep in mind the first comment about starting too soon and wasting the first week - so in summary I'd tack on three more weeks of PCT to the end. This could be at low doses like 25 clomid and 20 nolva.

The vitamin D is a great idea. I like maca too, but not sure it helps in this scenario. Also make sure you are getting zinc, fish oil, and eating plenty of saturated fats.

Thank you for this feedback! This was extremely helpful. And I appreciate you just giving me info and not being too judgmental about the big mistakes I made. Which, I do realize, I made quite a few.

I didn't realize that two weeks wasn't enough time when running enanthate...I hate that I wasted the first week. I'll get some zinc and fish oil supplements and add them to the mix.

As I mentioned, my libido is coming back but my balls are still pretty small, and for that reason I agree with your suggestion to run HCG for a few weeks. Starting next week (I'm going to go ahead and finish out the week's clomid and nolva) I'm going to start running 1,000iu daily for three or four weeks and then re-evaluate where I'm at. After that, I'll basically repeat my first PCT pill-for-pill. After that, bloods.

 

[tomyo]

Last Update: Beginning of Month 4

Hi again. I just wanted to add a few last updates to this whole process. As I said in my last post, my libido did come back -- at least a little. However, it was still not where it should have been. I could get a semi but pretty much only that. So, I followed tankmanbob's advice and ran hcg at a higher dosage, 1000 iu every day for twenty days. This made my balls finally come back. That was an excellent suggestion, tankmanbob!

However, despite having testicles again, my libido was still not there. And then, not so long ago, I was toweling off after a shower and I noticed a yellow-ish brown discharge from my nipples. This has been happening for a long time, but I never really thought too much into it because my nipples were never really tender and I never had a breast tissue grow. But I thought it was weird that this was still happening so far out from my cycle, and it made me realize: my problem wasn't testosterone, it was prolactin.

I made this conclusion for a few reasons:
1. I was running Tren forever, which is notorious for causing prolactin issues (and I wasn't taking T3 or anything to balance it out)
2. Even with a testosterone base, I still had no libido, which made no sense
3. Yellow/brown discharge from nipples is associated with high prolactin levels.

So, I got my hands on some caber and began to run it this week at .5g, twice a week. I'll be honest, I don't like the stuff much. It makes my head hurt and I feel like I'm on crack or something. But the very next morning after I took it, I woke up with a raging hard-on. Since then, I've had no issues with libido at all. I think I finally figured out what the problem is and I finally fixed it. Thank you for your support and help.

If anyone reading this made the same mistakes I did, I recommend:
1. The aforementioned HCG protocol of 1000iu every day for at least 20 days BEFORE starting clomid and nolva (which you should run for 6 weeks instead of 4)
2. Consider trying caber, as prolactin issues may be responsible for your issues