Long time lurker First time poster help.

[theguy9129]

Well been looking around the boards and to be honest this site seems to cater to people trying to get bigger which is fine I dont care and dont have any ill will, but it seems some of the best information I can find is located on here so maybe some can help answer some questions.

Little Background 30 year old male have had classic low thyroid symptoms for years, kept being told its not thyroid it not thyroid. Changed diets, supplements, etc with very few if any improvements. Well ended getting T checked it was 210 the first time at like 9am not eating and second time a couple of weeks ago was 170 at about 1030-11 and eating. Follitropin is 3.6 and Lutropin was 5.24. I know the total T is low maybe some feedback on the others.

Well it seems a lot of the low thyroid symptoms match up with Low T, and after some research have some symptoms of low T as well. But the biggest things I have problems with is fatigue and weight management. Im not a pig but if I dont literally fast and work out 2hrs a day keeping my weight is impossible. Not a big drinker and dont smoke. The only way to manage weight is really to work out and maintain around a 1000 calorie diet. Currently I would say Im about 30-40lbs over weight. Funny thing is I have never been cut but it just seems as with all the training in the military I did I could never gain muscle mass.

Here are my questions. I am going to get my testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) from the Va so what form it comes in I have no clue, whats the best one if theres a choice. I see theres cream but the shot seems better for me as its one a week and your done with it.

How fast can one start seeing the results with testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), is something where the weight just falls off or does it take time. Same with fatigue.

I have heard something about Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) and estrogen blockers is something that you automatically get, or have to ask for, is it necessary.

Just out of curiosity is testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) considered anabolic steroids??

 

[grind4it]

So, welcome.
TRT doent kick in right away. It takes time and everyone is a little diffrent. It took months for me to start seeing and feeling the effects.
If your Dr gives you testostorone and no Aromatase inhibitor (AI) or Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) you are in for a rough ride. I know from personal experiance. My Dr prescribed testostorone C in the beginning half a CC weekly. With no Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and no HCG. My saving grace is that my Dr is a good guy who has openly stated that most of his clients know more about Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) than he does. So, I educated myself and the first thing I asked him to do was to give me an Aromatase inhibitor (AI). I got acne on my chest and back really bad as a result of TRT. Some guys never have issues with low does testostorone, I did. The next thing I noticed was that my testicales where getting smaller. He gave me Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) to address this issue. All of this played out over several months.
Most Drs want to prescribe the transdermals first. I made it a month on this protocol and threw a 350 on my test. This is the point he put me on IM injections. IMO IM injection taken weekly gives me the most balanced feeling. I tried a month of the the 1cc every two weeks and I felt like a rockstar the first week and the second I felt worse than before TRT.
Yes; testostorone is an anobolic steroid. You will not swell up like Arnold on TRT. You will see improvement in body composition, muscle development and an overall sense of well being if everything is in balance. This usally take months and sometimes years. I am basing this stament on the fact that you workout and your diet is in check. The issue is finding the sweet spot on all of your hormones. Hang in there.

Good luck

 

[grilla_b]

for me it took about 6 weeks to really kick in then i felt like a rabid beast that wanted to hump every woman I saw lol. Then it leveled out and I just felt better.

You still have to diet and train if you want to lose or gain weight. However I've found that even when i eat really crappy I don't gain much fat if at all compared to before. Results in the gym come much faster.

I'm sure it's different with everyone

 

[theguy9129]

thanks for the information so far. I am just looking forward to feeling and looking better. I just for years have been an active guy with hunting, boating, and other outdoors stuff and truely do not eat a lot all the time and it just has beyond a struggle. And all the doctors want to say well your getting older, bla bla bla.

Yeah I will ask an dpush for Aromatase inhibitor (AI) or HCG. Im guessing like any doctor specially the Va they are going to give you the cheapest delivery method and probably start you out at a lower dose. I may have to see an endo if I dont get and feel how I want. But we will see so far this doc seems on top of things. My only fear is that they give me a low dose and I move up to 350 and say thats still in range your fine, when in reality I should be 5-700 at least.

 

[theguy9129]

Another question assuming I will be getting the shot and if not the gel what is the approiate dosage ranges. I know everybody is different but what ranges should I be looking at or question if they are off base.

 

[dfeaton]

Most likely they will start you with cream/lotion. Cyp wise around 150mg/week is a good starting point.

 

[theguy9129]

thanks yeah one thing I am not going to accept is a patch. Not going that route. I want to either wipe it on or get a shot and be done.

 

[03ACE]

If you want injections, make sure you tell them that transdermal cream might not be the best due to contact with women/children. As my Dr. put it "you don't want your old lady growing a beard, do you?" LOL.

Also, almost all docs that aren't testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) specialists are going to dose you with what the manufacturer recommends, which is 200mg Test Cyp every 2 weeks or month. Mine did, and lo and behold, that is exactly what is on the paperwork inside the box. I told him I was going to break it up into 2 doses, half each week and he was cool with that. I need to talk to him about my E2, and probably educate him somewhat. He is a cool guy and really approachable, but if the lab says you are in range, he isn't really interested in changing anything.

 

[theguy9129]

thanks for all the info so far. What test is done for E. I dont beleive I see that one yet. Just minerals, T, and Follitropin and Lutropin.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

If you want injections, make sure you tell them that transdermal cream might not be the best due to contact with women/children. As my Dr. put it "you don't want your old lady growing a beard, do you?" LOL.

Also, almost all docs that aren't testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) specialists are going to dose you with what the manufacturer recommends, which is 200mg Test Cyp every 2 weeks or month. Mine did, and lo and behold, that is exactly what is on the paperwork inside the box. I told him I was going to break it up into 2 doses, half each week and he was cool with that. I need to talk to him about my E2, and probably educate him somewhat. He is a cool guy and really approachable, but if the lab says you are in range, he isn't really interested in changing anything.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

thanks for all the info so far. What test is done for E. I dont beleive I see that one yet. Just minerals, T, and Follitropin and Lutropin.

He means an Estradiol test. Testosterone can convert to E via the aromatase enzyme. GP's are reluctant to prescribe anything to help get that under control, the 1990 half-life injection timing most of them use will merely cause your E to go up and down, leaving you feeling worse than before......

 

[Rix]

If you want injections, make sure you tell them that transdermal cream might not be the best due to contact with women/children. As my Dr. put it "you don't want your old lady growing a beard, do you?" LOL.

Also, almost all docs that aren't testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) specialists are going to dose you with what the manufacturer recommends, which is 200mg Test Cyp every 2 weeks or month. Mine did, and lo and behold, that is exactly what is on the paperwork inside the box. I told him I was going to break it up into 2 doses, half each week and he was cool with that. I need to talk to him about my E2, and probably educate him somewhat. He is a cool guy and really approachable, but if the lab says you are in range, he isn't really interested in changing anything.

Repeat after me:"I am really cost sensitive and generics have a really low copay. I'm willing to inject to save a few bucks"

 

[300winmag]

Ok I use the Va and Ill give you some information. Be sure all testing is done first, they kind of skipped me around, but ensure you get a MRI of your pituatary, blood test to include full blood panel, test, estrogen, thyroid, liver and kidney function, cholesterol, ferratin, LH, and FSH, and get a cortisol jug test. This needs to be done first for two reasons, one you want to make sure no other issues are causing your problems, no reason to be on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) if something else can be fixed, two you want a baseline of everything so you know how testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is affecting it. Get this all done as its costly so you at least have records if you leave, an MRI alone is like 1400 bucks, so just get it done. One thing to note some Va doctors are contracted and even the non contracted ones are be sure you know what is covered and what isnt, if they sent you outside of the Va hospital there is a chance its NOT Covered anything within their confines or any perscriptions they write and FILL FOR YOU should be covered, but when it doubt ask. As the bill will be in your box in about 60-90 days.

Chances are they are going to try you out on patches or cream first, if so opt for cream first, patches suck. If cream/gel doesnt work ask them for injections but they will probably want you to do gel for 4-6 weeks and do a blood test, hopefully your numbers suck so you can go on injections. injections they have ethanate and cyponate, doesnt really matter, but i use the ethanate as they can only get cyponate in 200mg vials and they suck to use all the time, so I would ask for ethanate. If you go on injections they will probably start with 100mg every 7-10 days, i would ensure 7 days.

As for estrogen blockers you may not need them on 100mg every week and probably wont need them, none the less the Va is skeptical on these giving these out and will only do it if your numbers are really high in regards to high estrogen.

HCG the endo will probably not do this neither will your PCP. I now go to a URO and he will give it, if I were you I would opt to see a URO first and stick with that. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is not covered by the Va and you will pay out of pocket, usually around 200 bucks which last 2-3 months. But before you DO ANYTHING in regards to testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) ask for a sperm analysis this is covered by the Va(make sure it is, as its a $500 test) it is at my va hospital, but this will give you a baseline, then I would ask for another one 90 days in to see how your numbers are doing. The Va will not give you Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) just because, you have to have a fertility issue, so if you bring it up be sure to say you want because of fertility. But in this case they might tell you to try clomid if you are having fertility issues and want to try and have a kid, clomid means no testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) while you are on it and they will only do clomid for like 4-6 months, clomid is covered. If you already have kids and dont care, i might just skip the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) all together, some say it makes them feel better, but thats not true for everybody it isnt for me.

Test and estrogen blockers are covered I think pay 8 bucks for 1000mg vial of test. havent gotten estrogen blockers yet, not sure I really need it. The uro is down with it, but he likes to see a 10:1 ratio of test to e, and I fall into that category. Another thing is if you go injections be sure you have them right a scrip for needles as they dont automatically come with it, and getting needles from drug stores can be a pain and is another added cost, where needles are free from the Va, also also ask for a sharps container they will give that to you free.


The Va is decent about all of this but will only treat to mid range so around 4-600, so keep that in mind. Luckily i get a 1000mg vial every month, my script is for 100mg every 6 days so I have extra if I wish to try to push my numbers, but keep in mind the higher numbers you get potentially higher the estrogen which may require an estrogen blocker. And I wouldnt focus on numbers as much as just how you feel, some people feel great at 500, so need to push it. Also when you first start I would mess with doing this until you are straight. And if you do mess with be sure to knock down your dosage back to normal two weeks before a blood test, because if you are high they are just going to knock your script down, but again dont mess with doing this until you are straight as, they are going to be doing blood work every 4 weeks for a few months and if they arent insist on blood test at least every 4 weeks no more than 6 weeks until your protocol is straight, from there you can probably do blood test every 6 months or so.

This goes for any doctor but you have to push for what you want. Some are receptive and some arent, but then again so are most doctors. Dont walking in there asking for 100mg of CYP every 5 days, HCG, and Aromatase inhibitor (AI), they are going to tell you to STFU and sit down.

 

[halfwit]

Ok I use the Va and Ill give you some information. Be sure all testing is done first, they kind of skipped me around, but ensure you get a MRI of your pituatary, blood test to include full blood panel, test, estrogen, thyroid, liver and kidney function, cholesterol, ferratin, LH, and FSH, and get a cortisol jug test. This needs to be done first for two reasons, one you want to make sure no other issues are causing your problems, no reason to be on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) if something else can be fixed, two you want a baseline of everything so you know how testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is affecting it

Chances are they are going to try you out on patches or cream first, if so opt for cream first, patches suck. If cream/gel doesnt work ask them for injections but they will probably want you to do gel for 4-6 weeks and do a blood test, hopefully your numbers suck so you can go on injections. injections they have ethanate and cyponate, doesnt really matter, but i use the ethanate as they can only get cyponate in 200mg vials and they suck to use all the time, so I would ask for ethanate. If you go on injections they will probably start with 100mg every 7-10 days, i would ensure 7 days.

As for estrogen blockers you may not need them on 100mg every week and probably wont need them, none the less the Va is skeptical on these giving these out and will only do it if your numbers are really high in regards to high estrogen.

HCG the endo will probably not do this neither will your PCP. I now go to a URO and he will give it, if I were you I would opt to see a URO first and stick with that. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is not covered by the Va and you will pay out of pocket, usually around 200 bucks which last 2-3 months. But before you DO ANYTHING in regards to testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) ask for a sperm analysis this is covered by the Va(make sure it is, as its a $500 test) it is at my va hospital, but this will give you a baseline, then I would ask for another one 90 days in to see how your numbers are doing. The Va will not give you Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) just because, you have to have a fertility issue, so if you bring it up be sure to say you want because of fertility. But in this case they might tell you to try clomid if you are having fertility issues and want to try and have a kid, clomid means no testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) while you are on it and they will only do clomid for like 4-6 months, clomid is covered. If you already have kids and dont care, i might just skip the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) all together, some say it makes them feel better, but thats not true for everybody it isnt for me.

Test and estrogen blockers are covered I think pay 8 bucks for 1000mg vial of test. havent gotten estrogen blockers yet, not sure I really need it. The uro is down with it, but he likes to see a 10:1 ratio of test to e, and I fall into that category. Another thing is if you go injections be sure you have them right a scrip for needles as they dont automatically come with it, and getting needles from drug stores can be a pain and is another added cost, where needles are free from the Va, also also ask for a sharps container they will give that to you free.


The Va is decent about all of this but will only treat to mid range so around 4-600, so keep that in mind. Luckily i get a 1000mg vial every month, my script is for 100mg every 6 days so I have extra if I wish to try to push my numbers, but keep in mind the higher numbers you get potentially higher the estrogen which may require an estrogen blocker. And I wouldnt focus on numbers as much as just how you feel, some people feel great at 500, so need to push it. Also when you first start I would mess with doing this until you are straight. And if you do mess with be sure to knock down your dosage back to normal two weeks before a blood test, because if you are high they are just going to knock your script down, but again dont mess with doing this until you are straight as, they are going to be doing blood work every 4 weeks for a few months and if they arent insist on blood test at least every 4 weeks no more than 6 weeks until your protocol is straight, from there you can probably do blood test every 6 months or so.

EXCELLENT post! I know a lot of guys that rely on the VA, so this information is worth it's weight in gold imo!

 

[300winmag]

thanks it took me about 12 months to compile and figure all of this out. Things might vary a little but for the most part what happens at one Va is the standard at the other, for instance, the endo would not do Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) and actually showed me a policy letter stating that they couldnt that written to all endos across the Va. This might be a good sticky for a lot of va guys. The Va is pretty good if you can get past some of the red tape, and figure out how to deal with them, its just not going to be figured out in one doctors visit.