Looking for Guidance - TRT

Hypnotix

Well-known member
Brief overview for anyone who may not know me.

Age - 24
Height - 5'8"
Weight - 205
BF - Around 20%

So, I did my first cycle of Test and before going into it, my blood work, specifically total test, and free test were rather low for a 24 y.o.

Total Test - 415 ng/dL, 348-1197
Free Test - 7.3 pg/mL, 9.3-26.5

I did a 4 week run of Prohormones prior to start, but did a proper PCT with Clomid and Raloxifene. I waited at least 2 months before getting the bloods used for the data above, and then longer before actually starting the cycle of Testosterone.

On my cycle of test, everything checked out just fine. Got intra cycle bloods done. Nothing exciting and nothing alarming.

I am now 7 weeks out of PCT from that cycle, and have my post cycle blood work ordered. I am just awaiting the paperwork via e-mail to go get the test done.

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So that is where I am.

I'm almost certain based on how I've been feeling lately, compared to how I felt on cycle, and compared to how I felt before cycle that my levels aren't any better. In fact they may be worse. I didn't make this thread to have anyone predict me having low T, I'm just preparing myself for it if it does happen by asking questions and seeking out information.

On to the topic of the thread.

I've called around a few local TRT/HRT clinics and just asking about anything, they'll deny answering me just because of my age alone. I have a friend who's 30 that went to one recently, tested low, and they offered him their services but, they won't allow self administrations, they inject one time a week, and they base their optimal range of the patient by their free test. This all sounds like shit, and against almost everything I've read about TRT on the forum here. I've told him it sounds a little outdated.. and so I'm trying to help him as well here by asking for help.

His total test came back at 405 btw. TRT doc said he'd benefit from treatment based on his bloodwork, but it was 50 points too high for insurance to cover it. Meaning he'd have to pay 100 a week for treatment unless his numbers came down for another testing somehow.

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Based on what I've written, what do you think should be done for me or for my friend. - My situation will be solely determined by my bloodwork in a few days.

How do you find the "right" clinic?

If my numbers come back lower than pre-cycle, should I try a restart even though I just did a PCT before seeking out TRT? The lifelong TRT thing literally doesn't worry me. I think this is peoples main concern with treating someone as young as myself, or even my friend.

Should I recommend a restart protocol to my friend?

If you think I should do a restart, what is your recommended protocol? What drugs, what dosages, and for how long for the most optimal and likely result?

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Thank you all for reading through.
 
Hi
I use Prohormones to attract young women with great success, what did you use it for? I dont really get what it has to do with TRT. Thanks
 
What was causing your lowish T? Testicles? Pituitary? Thyroid? Sleep disturbances? I am presuming that you looked into your low T before self-medicating. Can you tell us more? This will impact the advice you get.
 
Hi
I use Prohormones to attract young women with great success, what did you use it for? I dont really get what it has to do with TRT. Thanks
In case this is not a joke: you are confusing prohormones and pheromones...
 
What was causing your lowish T? Testicles? Pituitary? Thyroid? Sleep disturbances? I am presuming that you looked into your low T before self-medicating. Can you tell us more? This will impact the advice you get.

I'm not self medicating. At all. I simply did a Test only cycle. Now I'm off, need to print paperwork and go get blood work.

Reason I'm asking all of this is because of how much worse I feel now that I'm off than I even remember feeling before when my levels were 415. Basically preparing myself in case I do need to get on TRT.

I do have Hypothyroidism. Suppose that, and the medication I'm prescribed (150mcg, T4/Daily) may not be helping the T levels either.

Again, I'm not self medicating, but I sure as hell will if I can't find a doctor willing to work with a 24 y.o. and my levels don't come up (from a restart or something)

I just have a very bad feeling my Test is much lower than before my cycle of Test. The level of fatigue and lack of motivation to do anything is unreal! Blood work will be the tell all.. but again, I'm just preparing myself.
 
So, I found this bit of info via PubMed.

The interrelationships between thyroid dysfunction and hypogonadism in men and boys.
Meikle AW1.
Author information
1Division of Endocrinology, University of Utah School of Medicine, Endocrine Testing Laboratory ARUP, 615 Arapeen Drive, Salt Lake City, UT 84108, USA. Wayne.Meikle@hsc.uth.edu
Abstract
Thyroid hormone deficiency affects all tissues of the body, including multiple endocrine changes that alter growth hormone, corticotrophin, glucocorticoids, and gonadal function. Primary hypothyroidism is associated with hypogonadotropic hypogonadism, which is reversible with thyroid hormone replacement therapy. In male children follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) is elevated and associated with testicular enlargement without virilization. Men with primary hypothyroidism have subnormal responses of luteinizing hormone (LH) to gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) administration and normal response to human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG). Free testosterone concentrations are reduced in men with primary hypothyroidism and thyroid hormone replacement normalizes free testosterone concentrations. In men with primary hypothyroidism, prolactin is not consistently elevated (except in men and children with longstanding severe primary hypothyroidism), but prolactin declines following thyroid hormone replacement therapy. Thyroid hormone is known to affect sex hormone-binding hormonal globulin (SHBG) concentrations. Men with hyperthyroidism have elevated concentrations of testosterone and SHBG. Thyroid hormone therapy in normal men may also duplicate this elevation. In addition estradiol elevations are observed in men with hyperthyroidism, and gynecomastia is common in them as well. In contrast to patients with primary hypothyroidism, men with hyperthyroidism exhibit hyperresponsiveness of LH to GnRH administration and subnormal responses to hCG. Radioactive iodine therapy (RAI) of men treated for thyroid cancer produces a dose-dependent impairment of spermatogenesis and elevation of FSH up to approximately 2 years. Permanent testicular germ cell damage may occur in men treated with high doses of RAI. RAI commonly increases serum concentrations of FSH and LH while reducing inhibin B levels without affecting serum concentrations of testosterone. Thus, radioiodine therapy transiently impairs both germinal and Leydig cell function that usually recover by 18 months posttherapy.

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It appears the medication should be reversing my Low T.. but I've been medicated for a year or so before that bloodwork, shouldn't be that low at my age still.. Not if the medication was helping the situation as listed in this doc.

I forgot to mention I have issues with prolactin, even now. (This didn't come about until after the prohormones) Primary Hypothyroidism can cause prolactin issues as well according to the above writing, but again, should be reversed by my medication. Never had it tested, but nothing else will make nipples secrete a clear fluid like I have on occasion. The nipple will get sensitive and sometimes if I'm working or active they'll secrete very tiny droplets when they rub on the inside of my shirt, or if I were to squeeze them they will secrete little droplets. It's weird, I know.. and weird to talk about.

Figured I would add this in here and hopefully paint a better picture of what I'm dealing with and need to look into.
 
I think it is normal to feel "deflated" after a cycle. You just ran your very first cycle and it is a huge rush. You have to give your body and brain time to feel normal again. I would wait at least 6 months before doing anything.

Get blood work after PCT and see where your hormone levels are coming in at (including prolactin). Post them up here so we can all see them. That might be some things you can do to help your HPTA.

P.S. You are right. Both hypothyroidism and elevated prolactin can lower Testosterone levels.
 
I think it is normal to feel "deflated" after a cycle. You just ran your very first cycle and it is a huge rush. You have to give your body and brain time to feel normal again. I would wait at least 6 months before doing anything.

Get blood work after PCT and see where your hormone levels are coming in at (including prolactin). Post them up here so we can all see them. That might be some things you can do to help your HPTA.

P.S. You are right. Both hypothyroidism and elevated prolactin can lower Testosterone levels.

I agree completely about the deflation.. definitely not as full and strong, was expecting that.

But not the whole.. absolute fatigue thing.. like not only do I not want to work out, I don't want to do anything.. sex (to an extent), daily chores, getting out of bed. No motivation to do much of anything, I'd rather just lay in bed until I have to go to work. That in itself is depressing.

It is absolutely worse than it was before cycling. Before, I was still in the gym daily, New to the diet with 3J doing very well actually.

Diet and training are suffering bad. Need to get motivated.
 
Blood work is in. Let me know your thoughts.

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What time was the blood draw? Just to comment on the other flags: I'm going to assume you were slightly dehydrated given the slightly elevated kidney values. You should donate blood soon too as your HCT is still good, but you should bring it down before it goes much higher.

The tough call here is that you actually have decent LH and FSH values, but your test and estradiol are in the pits. You could try another round of SERM therapy, but I don't know if you'll respond much more. (worth looking into for sure)

Do you know if you snore at night? Sleep apnea can certainly reduce test levels, but I usually see a decrease in pituitary output. FWIW, I was subclinically hypothyroiditic, which did fix itself upon restoring healthy testosterone levels. I have a feeling you've been sitting on the border for awhile.

If you do snore, look into a sleep study. I hear that they're even doing them from the comfort of your own home nowadays, which makes things a bit easier to schedule/manage.

My .02c :)
 
What time was the blood draw? Just to comment on the other flags: I'm going to assume you were slightly dehydrated given the slightly elevated kidney values. You should donate blood soon too as your HCT is still good, but you should bring it down before it goes much higher.

The tough call here is that you actually have decent LH and FSH values, but your test and estradiol are in the pits. You could try another round of SERM therapy, but I don't know if you'll respond much more. (worth looking into for sure)

Do you know if you snore at night? Sleep apnea can certainly reduce test levels, but I usually see a decrease in pituitary output. FWIW, I was subclinically hypothyroiditic, which did fix itself upon restoring healthy testosterone levels. I have a feeling you've been sitting on the border for awhile.

If you do snore, look into a sleep study. I hear that they're even doing them from the comfort of your own home nowadays, which makes things a bit easier to schedule/manage.

My .02c :)

I may have been dehydrated. Been talking to 3J about this actually, so, I'll go ahead and make mention of it on here as well. Since coming off cycle, I've felt worse than before (tired, achy, total exhaustion not just sleepy). With that being said, the only thing that helps me manage getting through work without being a zombie the entire day was energy drinks, sometimes just iced coffees (black). I could definitely have been dehydrated from that.. being that it would have drawn water off me.. and I'm sure all the garbage in the Monsters didn't help my kidney values either. That was one of the first things I thought of when I saw that.

-High protein diet
-Diuretics
-chemicals

No amount of water would outweigh that on a blood test.. gonna cut the bottom two out. I think the numbers will come up, I drink over a gallon of water a day typically.

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I might snore on a very very rare occasion. My girlfriend is a light sleeper most of the time, and will let me know if I am. I tend to sleep on my side, and end up on my stomach most of the time. Occasionally I'll prop a pillow under my legs and sleep on my back, but I haven't heard much complaints of snoring. Trust me she would let me know! lol

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Will definitely give blood before the levels get too high. Never have before though, any different than getting blood drawn? Obviously more blood comes out but, feeling wise? :)

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I'm probably just gonna go the TRT route.. I'm young, I can understand when people say "that's a long life of pinning", but I'd rather deal with the slight inconvenience one or two times a week, than the constant annoyance of feeling like garbage every single day. Maybe I'll regret wanting to do it so early later on, but judging on how I feel, and how I felt before cycling even.. I don't think it will be the case. Think this was a long time coming, and maybe getting into AAS was my calling to figuring this shit out.

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Did you say, doing TRT mitigated or eliminated your hypothyroidic issues? Just want to clarify!
 
Oh! My test was at 10:30-11:00 A.M., I woke up at 9:30. A.M., as early as I could possibly drive and make it. It's a 45 minute drive from my house to the clinic..
 
Donating is just a bigger needle, and you get to sit in a comfy chair for the 10 minutes or so that it takes for the draw. Some folks get light headed or dizzy, but that's usually just syncope kicking in - where their brain panics from seeing a needle penetrate their skin.

I personally would investigate a bit further if it were me; but as someone that knows all too well how low T feels, I do understand your decision. Just remember, it's not just 104 T injects a year - it's also 104 HCG pins, potentially AI use, blood tests, donations frequently, and the task of staying on top of it all if you decide you want to play as well with cycles.

Yeah, you probably lost 20-30 points. Time to start doc hunting! (or give IMT a call)
 
Donating is just a bigger needle, and you get to sit in a comfy chair for the 10 minutes or so that it takes for the draw. Some folks get light headed or dizzy, but that's usually just syncope kicking in - where their brain panics from seeing a needle penetrate their skin.

I personally would investigate a bit further if it were me; but as someone that knows all too well how low T feels, I do understand your decision. Just remember, it's not just 104 T injects a year - it's also 104 HCG pins, potentially AI use, blood tests, donations frequently, and the task of staying on top of it all if you decide you want to play as well with cycles.

Yeah, you probably lost 20-30 points. Time to start doc hunting! (or give IMT a call)

What about handling it on your own? No doc, no clinic. Thoughts on that?
 
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