Low (side)effect, medium length cycle; what should I research?

PolishHammer

New member
Low (side)effect medium term cycle; what should I research?

I live/breathed the gym from about 14-30. I read a metric shit ton. Never used anything anyone would consider a steroid, but overall made good progress. Had 4 rep maxes of about 525, 385, and 550 for squat, bench, and dead, and I looked pretty good.

That said, there were on and off times during that period. I don't think any of them lasted for over 6 months. My longest, and still running, break started when my wife died, shortly after I turned 30. It really kicked the crap out of me. I didn't try to get back into it for about 2 years. I'm 33 now. I've taken a few runs at starting again this year, but each time, by the second or third week, I've run out of fucks to give to the whole effort.

As far as I can tell, the problem is that there's nothing new/better to look forward to. I've been up the ladder enough times that I know how it goes and I know where it ends. I have a hard time getting pumped about going somewhere I've been to many times before. Moreover, the fact is, I'm older; the ability to even get to that place at a motivation-sustaining pace is less than guaranteed.

I've tried other ways to get the motivation I had before (different programs, changing my reference frame, etc.), but they haven't worked. The gym was always about doing something that I hadn't been able to do before. So long as it's true that I'm probably not going to be able to do anything new because of my effort there, I'm probably not going to go.

Planning to start, and then actually starting, some assistance sometime in the medium-term seems like the best way to fix the problem. I figure once I've got a cycle worked out, I'll use that plan as motivation to put in some time training au-naturel until I've made some reasonable progress and got my habits in order. Once I've done that, then I'll step it up.

For my first go, I'm looking just for what would probably put me just a notch over what my yearly strength/muscle gains were in my early-mid twenties. From what I know about myself, I'd probably do better on a longer, but less intense, cycle than I would on a more intense, but shorter one. The last, and most important, parameter I'm taking into consideration is sides. Getting older sucks enough. It doesn't need any extra help doing that. So I'm putting a lot of weight on minimizing sides. In particular, hair loss is a real risk. I've managed to hold the line with Avodart (dutasteride) for the last 2-3 yrs, but I figure anything DHT based is off the menu.

Bearing that last paragraph in mind, what kind of cycles (substances, approx. dosages, duration) should I be looking into? Specific advice is great, but even vague answers would get me looking in the right direction.

Thanks for the help.
 
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damn man, first and foremost...sorry to hear about your lady.

The problem you may run into with going "on" to help motivate your gym schedule...is that, what are you going to do when you go off. It's that mental toughness you need to keep when training to look good, and that needs to be "on" all of the time.

If you do decide to cycle, get a baseline blood test and see where your natty hormones are at right now...and make sure you get PCT dialed in...so important as you head into your late 30's.

With your goals, you could easily go 400mg-500mg test cyp or enth a week for 10-12 weeks and get some great results with a good diet...but I'd def try to get some more time in at gym before making the jump.
 
First, thanks.

Ya I've seen enough guy go on juice and just screw it up. No results, nothing lasting, etc. I've also seen the opposite. So I do get that it's more nuanced than 'take juice - do better'.

More to your point: I'm taking a long term view of this. I'm good with 2 steps forward, one step back, as long as the overall pace is reasonable and I could reasonably expect to break new ground eventually.

And ya - I agree. Seems like it'd be hard to justify going on for a while yet. I'd like to find out what sort of outcomes I can expect and if that looks worth going after, then get the plan in place now to create the sense that it's going to happen if I put in the work.

That said, the reminder is still appreciated. I'd be lying if I said there wasn't a quiet idiotic part of me that is saying 'fuck it - just do it now'.

Thanks for the cycle info too.
 
I live/breathed the gym from about 14-30. I read a metric shit ton. Never used anything anyone would consider a steroid, but overall made good progress. Had 4 rep maxes of about 525, 385, and 550 for squat, bench, and dead, and I looked pretty good.

That said, there were on and off times during that period. I don't think any of them lasted for over 6 months. My longest, and still running, break started when my wife died, shortly after I turned 30. It really kicked the crap out of me. I didn't try to get back into it for about 2 years. I'm 33 now. I've taken a few runs at starting again this year, but each time, by the second or third week, I've run out of fucks to give to the whole effort.

As far as I can tell, the problem is that there's nothing new/better to look forward to. I've been up the ladder enough times that I know how it goes and I know where it ends. I have a hard time getting pumped about going somewhere I've been to many times before. Moreover, the fact is, I'm older; the ability to even get to that place at a motivation-sustaining pace is less than guaranteed.

I've tried other ways to get the motivation I had before (different programs, changing my reference frame, etc.), but they haven't worked. The gym was always about doing something that I hadn't been able to do before. So long as it's true that I'm probably not going to be able to do anything new because of my effort there, I'm probably not going to go.

Planning to start, and then actually starting, some assistance sometime in the medium-term seems like the best way to fix the problem. I figure once I've got a cycle worked out, I'll use that plan as motivation to put in some time training au-naturel until I've made some reasonable progress and got my habits in order. Once I've done that, then I'll step it up.

For my first go, I'm looking just for what would probably put me just a notch over what my yearly strength/muscle gains were in my early-mid twenties. From what I know about myself, I'd probably do better on a longer, but less intense, cycle than I would on a more intense, but shorter one. The last, and most important, parameter I'm taking into consideration is sides. Getting older sucks enough. It doesn't need any extra help doing that. So I'm putting a lot of weight on minimizing sides. In particular, hair loss is a real risk. I've managed to hold the line with Avodart (dutasteride) for the last 2-3 yrs, but I figure anything DHT based is off the menu.

Bearing that last paragraph in mind, what kind of cycles (substances, approx. dosages, duration) should I be looking into? Specific advice is great, but even vague answers would get me looking in the right direction.

Thanks for the help.
less is more, what is your cycle goal?
 
@appleton

Ideally - after 6 months of dedicated training/nutrition without assistance, I'd like to put in a year with cycled assistance and be able to maintain myself without it (or with very infrequent and mild cycles) at a point somewhere farther ahead than where I was before

So ultimately im maintaining myself at 6'1", 205lbs, with 8% bf, able to 4 rep more than my old PBs (about 525, 385, 550 for the main three). I figure hitting those goals in 18-24 months is feasible, but if it can be done in less time and and enduring side effects can be kept as close to zero as possible I'm not opposed to getting there faster. If I need more time to keep sides down, then so be it.
 
Wow sorry about your loss.

Test only for a first cycle. Do test e 500mg ew split into two injections 250x2.

Good luck having any motivation training when your off. If your having issues being motivated now you will definitely have issues training off cycle. Sure people are gonna disagree with me but it's the truth.

I've known my fair share of aas users over the years and I can't think of any that could motivate to train while off cycle. Including myself.

Good luck.
 
@appleton

Ideally - after 6 months of dedicated training/nutrition without assistance, I'd like to put in a year with cycled assistance and be able to maintain myself without it (or with very infrequent and mild cycles) at a point somewhere farther ahead than where I was before

So ultimately im maintaining myself at 6'1", 205lbs, with 8% bf, able to 4 rep more than my old PBs (about 525, 385, 550 for the main three). I figure hitting those goals in 18-24 months is feasible, but if it can be done in less time and and enduring side effects can be kept as close to zero as possible I'm not opposed to getting there faster. If I need more time to keep sides down, then so be it.

Keeping/maintaining 8% will depend on a lot of factors (clean diet, lifestyle, sleep, stress), but that's an attainable goal...but keeping strength while off might be a bit of challenge. Intermittent small cycles might keep you close though. Experiment away! I think staying with basic compound of test is best bet...health wise too.

Keep in mind, that you'll want to check blood/hormone results at least once a month and monitor for estro and hemocrit levels (especially if you consistantly cycle, hemocrit levels can creep up and you'll need to donate to keep levels down!). Can't stress that enough.
 
8 PERCENT IS LEAN; DOABLE BUT ...10 IS MUCH MORE SO.

sORRY ABOUT THE WIFE; LIFE HAPPENS AND AFTER LOSING MY DAD , MY BROTHER, my wife, my right eye and left knee and then my career I can honestly say the weight room is 1 of 3 thing s that consistently save s my life in it s stabilizing effect, it s disciplined approach to time management and addresses my very aggressive type A personality by tempering it down some.

Get blood work; u may need trt and that would be a great score.

Motivated while off cycle is cake if your really a gym rat, love the life. Training only when on is chump b/s and I crucify young buck s in my gym who only do the gym when on gear.
Off is when u see what your made of...

The cycle proposed would be just fine for a few early cycle s.
 
.NOT THAT THERE S ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT. 49 ER LIKE S MY HAIR AND my HAIRY ASS TOO DON T U SANfRANCIS BOYEEEE LOL
 
@theresearcher

Hemrocrit levels: is hemrocrit(ical?) a thing or a class of things? If it's a class, what are the important things it includes?

Short cycles: is there a difference health wise between shorter cycles and longer cycles, all other things (dosages etc.) being equal?


@teutonic
"Motivated while off cycle is cake if your really a gym rat, love the life. "

Ya I can imagine that. I can't see it being hard to find the motivation to avoid losing something that's already been attained. Pretty sure that's what got me through long plateaus when I was training before.
 
Meant to include this in my last reply:

If I hit those goals (and let's say 10% bf instead of 8, since I agree 8% is ambitious), how often do you think I'd have to cycle in order to maintain something around that lvl (assuming I'm similar to a typical person)?

Thank you
 
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