Low Testosterone- Cycle then TRT?

[Gainjin260]

35 years old, 6'2", 235lbs. Clean lifestyle, no drinking or drugs. I get good sleep, workout 5x week (Bench/squat/deadlift) and have a clean diet (no/low sugar etc). All in all about 12 years of serious lifting under my belt. 3 years ago I was in the worst shape of my life, however. Was 255, weak and fat. Never been on a cycle/used T.

3 years ago I was diagnosed with low T (285) and azoospermia (shooting blanks). For the last 2.5 years I've been taking Clomid, under doctor supervision, to try and restore my T levels and make some sperm. Initial dose was 25, now I take 50 a day. My sex drive has gone from low to non existent. I can achieve an erection, but even so have no desire to do anything with it. I rarely get morning erections now. My T levels are now at 550, but I have ALL the symptoms of low T and still no sperm. I'm lethargic, not excited about anything, no interest in sex, bladder issues, constipation, etc.

The last 2.5 years I've been busting my ass in the gym again. I went from 255 to 220 and then bulked back up (muscle) to 235. So I've probably shed a good 40 lbs of fat. I live in Japan and it's nearly impossible to find a doctor who will consider TRT. I asked my urologist what to do about my sex drive and he recommended porn and masturbation. Fine, I guess, but I have no desire to look at porn because I have no sex drive.

I have a Skype call with my doctor from the US set up this week. In the meantime I've ordered Sustanon 250. It's legal here.

I know there are a lot of opinions about which test to run on TRT, but I've ordered the Sus, I'm going to use it initially. I have Nolvadex on hand.

I want to do a cycle of Sus at 500 first 6 weeks and 250 for 6 weeks after that. Then I'd do PCT and start TRT. I'd like to put on some muscle and I feel I don't have much to lose: I'm already sterile, my testicles are shrunk, and I have no sex drive. I already have all the negative aspects of a cycle (minus aromatization), all the negatives of low T and none of the benefits.

Before I take any T I'll go to get my blood work done. I suppose I'd be nice to know my T levels without the Clomid, but I'm not willing to go through the hell that follows after decreasing or stopping it. I get super down and depressed and all the other symptoms get worse.

I'm also considering HCG and will discuss this with my doctor.

Assuming while on cycle I should cease using the Clomid and use it 3 weeks after last injection as part of PCT.

Please feel free to educate me. Anybody who Cycles along with TRT? Has anyone had success in being able to produce sperm after being infertile? Like I said, I feel I have nothing to lose with going on Test.

 

[Megatron28]

Moved to the correct forum.

 

[halfwit]

TRT first, then once you have that settled - you can play. You'll be surprised what having proper testosterone levels will do for you without going supraphysiological.

Cycling first can present further complications that may make treatment more difficult. I'm going to assume estradiol hasn't been looked at? Estradiol is just as (if not more so) important than testosterone when it comes to libido.

My .02c

 

[Gainjin260]

Update:
Spoke with my Stateside doc. He's a urologist and head of a major university hospital's fertility program. Definitely trust him. He recommended the twice yearly pellets for TRT, but as they don't really do TRT here in Japan and anabolics/gear is legal, I told him I'm going with injections. Initially he would start me on 200mg Cypionate once a week (I think he said once a week, maybe once every 2?). He also said the symptoms I have that I think are from low T may be from high estrogen levels. For now I'm getting blood work done and then we'll take it from there. On TRT he'd have me on Armidex and HCG.

Blood work ordered:
Estradial
CBC
Liver function
Prolactin

and I decided to get my PSA checked just in case.

Thoughts?

 

[Megatron28]

Update:
Spoke with my Stateside doc. He's a urologist and head of a major university hospital's fertility program. Definitely trust him. He recommended the twice yearly pellets for TRT, but as they don't really do TRT here in Japan and anabolics/gear is legal, I told him I'm going with injections. Initially he would start me on 200mg Cypionate once a week (I think he said once a week, maybe once every 2?). He also said the symptoms I have that I think are from low T may be from high estrogen levels. For now I'm getting blood work done and then we'll take it from there. On TRT he'd have me on Armidex and HCG.

Blood work ordered:
Estradial
CBC
Liver function
Prolactin

and I decided to get my PSA checked just in case.

Thoughts?

Sounds like you should keep searching for a new doctor. Pellets? Injection once every two weeks?

No LH or FSH or TSH? Not even TT? How about Vitamin D?

 

[Mad- scientist]

I recommend reading through the TRT section here about a proper TRT protocol. Definitely don't cycle before you start TRT it sounds like a great idea in theory but it is not.

 

[Gainjin260]

Sounds like you should keep searching for a new doctor. Pellets? Injection once every two weeks?

No LH or FSH or TSH? Not even TT? How about Vitamin D?

My mistake. I got TT done last week. Its in the low 500's on 50mg of Clomid ED. I believe he said 200mg of Test C. every week, not EOW. Thanks for the replies!

 

[rikardo82]

you don't need PCT if after blast you go to TRT

 

[Milton]

keep us posted!