Need some advice from more expierenced members

[Chicago712]

Hey guys, hows it goin. I've got a few questions that i'd really appreciate some suggestions from more experienced members..

first off my stats
25
5'11 210 14%

previous cycle information

First cycle - i was 20 .. i know if i could do it over i wouldn't have done it was
test e 500mg a week w. nolva for pct - everything worked out fine had bloods done after pct and i was fine..

2nd cycle - 23
wk 1-4 dbol 40mg 20/20 split preworkout and before bed
wk 1-12 test e 500mgs
wk 14-18 nolva/clomid normal dosing procedures for both

3rd cycle - 24
wk 1-24 Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) 250iu twice a week
wk 1-24 test e 750mgs
wk 8-24 tri tren (50mg ace/hex/e )
nolva clomid Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) pct

after a 3 month break from my last cycle.. i've just recently decided to get back on.. but this cycle id like to try some short esters and just do a 8 weeker with test/tren

I have strango test p 100mg/ml and strango tren ace 100mg/ml

___________________________________________________________

My goals in general for my training is to get as big as possible, but i know its a marathon not a race even w. gear involved..

I really need some suggestions from you guys on advice I've attached a picture of what I currently look like, Im in that inbetween stage where normal people think I'm big but when I'm in the gym or w. other bodybuilders I feel tiny..

My question is should this next cycle be focused more on recomping and not trying to put on as much mass as possible, I go back and forth with this idea all the time.. I feel if i was at a lower bf% and had more definition / visible abs etc ( and believe me im one of those guys who usually say FUCK abs get big or die ) but in my head I think if i was leaner i'd be able to gauge how much fat vs lbm im really gaining on this next cycle...

soo if you were me, and in the long run my goal is to get as big as humanly possible, where when im walking down the streets kids think im the hulk.. but like i said i know it isnt a race, do you think it would be beneficial for me to use this next cycle more as an anti-catabolic/recomp cycle then an all out mass gainer?

any suggestions on adding/subtracting compounds would be greatly appreciated.. like i said i have access to strango meds so i can obtain most compounds without a problem... also normal PCT protocol 500iu Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) throughout the cycle and post cycle therapy (pct), and nolva/clomid..

sorry if i was rambling lol

 

[Rastas]

You need to decide whether you want to cut or bulk. The gear will prevent muscle catabolism, but this will also be dependent on your diet. You're not really clear in your post. Also, your body fat is much higher than 14%. Short esters are good pre contest, but you're not competing. You know how your body handles test and you know how it handles tren so I'd stick to longer esters. The ester doesn't determine whether you're bulking or cutting. Your diet does.

 

[DreDay187]

I agree, you're higher than 14% BF but that's irrelevant to your main question which I think you answered on your own lol. If your goal is to eventually get as much mass as possible, why would you lengthen the time needed to achieve those results by attempting a recomp? It is much quicker and more efficient to to a normal cut and bulk.

You didn't propose a cycle of any sort so critique can't be given on a cycle. You will need to include post cycle therapy (pct), an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), HCG, quite possibly a dopamine agonist like caber/prami, dosages and length of cycle, etc. you need to decide for yourself, if you want as much mass as possible and your goal is to get huge, you need to bulk for the whole cycle. But can you stand to gain that much fat from your starting position? If yes, than to right into a caloric surplus and bulk then cut at a later time. If you can't stand to gain much more fat from your current amount, cut before you start the cycle and start from a lower BF %.

 

[Chicago712]

You need to decide whether you want to cut or bulk. The gear will prevent muscle catabolism, but this will also be dependent on your diet. You're not really clear in your post. Also, your body fat is much higher than 14%. Short esters are good pre contest, but you're not competing. You know how your body handles test and you know how it handles tren so I'd stick to longer esters. The ester doesn't determine whether you're bulking or cutting. Your diet does.

I was really looking for advice from other members on if you were in my situation would you cut or bulk, my overall goal is to get as big as a I can but Im dedicated to that process taking years...

My diet is on check I consume currently consume about 500cal over maint, as im currently just trying to maintain what I already have a gain as much LBM with minimal fat gains till i decide exactly what I want to do at this point in time

and I decided on short esters because for one i've never tried them, and I know esters dont matter except for ester weight and how much of the actual compound is per mg/ml, I know i can use long esters if I decided too.

I know diet (calories in vs calories out ) is the determining factor in either cutting or bulking.. I'd just like suggestions on what YOU would do if you were currently where I am at.

thank you for your quick response

I agree, you're higher than 14% BF but that's irrelevant to your main question which I think you answered on your own lol. If your goal is to eventually get as much mass as possible, why would you lengthen the time needed to achieve those results by attempting a recomp? It is much quicker and more efficient to to a normal cut and bulk.

You didn't propose a cycle of any sort so critique can't be given on a cycle. You will need to include post cycle therapy (pct), an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), HCG, quite possibly a dopamine agonist like caber/prami, dosages and length of cycle, etc. you need to decide for yourself, if you want as much mass as possible and your goal is to get huge, you need to bulk for the whole cycle. But can you stand to gain that much fat from your starting position? If yes, than to right into a caloric surplus and bulk then cut at a later time. If you can't stand to gain much more fat from your current amount, cut before you start the cycle and start from a lower BF %.

I understand I kinda answered my own question and honestly i've never really attempted to cut as of yet. I know for sure that I don't want to cut without an anti-catabolic because id feel like id get too small.. i'd still like to keep my fullness

I know I didnt propose a actually cycle.. and my question really wasn't about planning the cycle, more however planning my goals of the cycle... I understand that cutting/bulking has to do w. diet

but since you asked as of now id like to do an 8-10 weeker

wk 1-10 Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) 500iu/wk
wk 1-10 test p 350mg/wk starting eod possibly changing to ed
wk 1-10 tren a 350mg/wk ""
wk 11-15 nolva 40/40/20/20
wk 11-15 clomid 100/50/25/25

and I have no expierence with arimdex, letro, prami etc because I haven't had a problem with gyno or prolactin as of yet.. but i do have a supply that always arrives overnight soo its not a problem with obtaining said chems if needed.

thank you for your quick response

 

[DreDay187]

I was really looking for advice from other members on if you were in my situation would you cut or bulk, my overall goal is to get as big as a I can but Im dedicated to that process taking years...

My diet is on check I consume currently consume about 500cal over maint, as im currently just trying to maintain what I already have a gain as much LBM with minimal fat gains till i decide exactly what I want to do at this point in time

and I decided on short esters because for one i've never tried them, and I know esters dont matter except for ester weight and how much of the actual compound is per mg/ml, I know i can use long esters if I decided too.

I know diet (calories in vs calories out ) is the determining factor in either cutting or bulking.. I'd just like suggestions on what YOU would do if you were currently where I am at.

thank you for your quick response



I understand I kinda answered my own question and honestly i've never really attempted to cut as of yet. I know for sure that I don't want to cut without an anti-catabolic because id feel like id get too small.. i'd still like to keep my fullness

I know I didnt propose a actually cycle.. and my question really wasn't about planning the cycle, more however planning my goals of the cycle... I understand that cutting/bulking has to do w. diet

but since you asked as of now id like to do an 8-10 weeker

wk 1-10 Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) 500iu/wk
wk 1-10 test p 350mg/wk starting eod possibly changing to ed
wk 1-10 tren a 350mg/wk ""
wk 11-15 nolva 40/40/20/20
wk 11-15 clomid 100/50/25/25

and I have no expierence with arimdex, letro, prami etc because I haven't had a problem with gyno or prolactin as of yet.. but i do have a supply that always arrives overnight soo its not a problem with obtaining said chems if needed.

thank you for your quick response

At your stats I don't believe you've hit your genetic potential so cutting without AAS doesn't mean you'll lose muscle mass on a cut if you've got diet and training down. AAS will lower the chances of catabolism but that doesn't mean you'll get it without AAS either. My point was to say if you can accept a certain level of fat gain on top of what you already have, I would bulk on this cycle. If you don't want to gain much more fat I'd cut before.

The cycle looks pretty good for a first run with tren but you will need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and possibly caber/prami for prolactin. These aren't really options they should be requirements. Even if you don't have gyno high E2 still wreaks havoc on your body. Look up the reasons for running an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and you'll see there's more to it than just gyno.

You're welcome

 

[gaintothemax]

If I was doing that cycle I'd eat as much as I could but as healthy as possible. You got to gain muscle doing it.

 

[Mad- scientist]

If I where you I would get blood tests to make sure everything is good after a 24 week cycle and that your natural test recovered ok. Tren is on a completely different ball field when it comes to suppression. Just since you did ok on your first cycle or second doesn't mean your third will be the same tren is a way harsher compound.

Also if I were you I would clean up my diet and eat really healthy and loose some fat. And then start bulking more. You can do a recomp. But I feel like something is not right if you are carrying that much fat you need to get it under control before you bulk again in my opinion. Maybe not a all out cut. But definitely try to get into the 13 to 14 percent body fat area I think you are around 17 to 18. There is a body fat picture chart in the diet section you can refer to. I just think it would suck to spend all this money on steroids and time on training and end up getting over weight from bulking for to long. I recommend a recomp or a cut. I have heard people grow better after a cut because their body is primed for nutrient uptake from being deprived from it. I just would insist personally if you do cut stay away from illegal fat burners. Cut by lowering your calories and doing cardio not by taking clen or t3. Good luck man I wish you the best.

 

[Chicago712]

At your stats I don't believe you've hit your genetic potential so cutting without AAS doesn't mean you'll lose muscle mass on a cut if you've got diet and training down. AAS will lower the chances of catabolism but that doesn't mean you'll get it without AAS either. My point was to say if you can accept a certain level of fat gain on top of what you already have, I would bulk on this cycle. If you don't want to gain much more fat I'd cut before.

The cycle looks pretty good for a first run with tren but you will need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and possibly caber/prami for prolactin. These aren't really options they should be requirements. Even if you don't have gyno high E2 still wreaks havoc on your body. Look up the reasons for running an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and you'll see there's more to it than just gyno.

You're welcome

What would genetic potential have to do with catabolism?

Also you must have missed it, but I've ran tren before with no issues with gyno, prolactic, or tren dick... and ill definitely look more into an AI

thank you

If I where you I would get blood tests to make sure everything is good after a 24 week cycle and that your natural test recovered ok. Tren is on a completely different ball field when it comes to suppression. Just since you did ok on your first cycle or second doesn't mean your third will be the same tren is a way harsher compound.

Also if I were you I would clean up my diet and eat really healthy and loose some fat. And then start bulking more. You can do a recomp. But I feel like something is not right if you are carrying that much fat you need to get it under control before you bulk again in my opinion. Maybe not a all out cut. But definitely try to get into the 13 to 14 percent body fat area I think you are around 17 to 18. There is a body fat picture chart in the diet section you can refer to. I just think it would suck to spend all this money on steroids and time on training and end up getting over weight from bulking for to long.

Hey, I've had bloods done about 6 weeks after my PCT and everything came back good, still had my libido, no depression, the only side i had was I lost a good amount of gains, but that was because I wasn't able to train for about 8 weeks and had to request medical leave so I wasn't working either..

I've never attempted to cut from when I began seriously training so IMHO that is the reason I am sitting around 16-18% bf... I'm lucky enough to work at a gym. most locations only have the handheld bf devices, but this week im hoping to make time to go to another location with a caliper....

I recommend a recomp or a cut. I have heard people grow better after a cut because their body is primed for nutrient uptake from being deprived from it. I just would insist personally if you do cut stay away from illegal fat burners. Cut by lowering your calories and doing cardio not by taking clen or t3. Good luck man I wish you the best.

My diet is actually pretty much spot on as of now, like i said i work at a gym so i'm able to eat when i need to eat no questions asked...

what you mentioned above is why I'm going back n forth between cut/bulk because I know at a lower bodyfat % not only would I be able to notice a lot easier if Im putting on mostly LBM or fat...(by my abs and defintion fading away etc)

And ya definitley no clen or t3 at this point of the game.. i know with diet, cardio, and a caloric deficit ill see results that i want...

 

[DreDay187]

What would genetic potential have to do with catabolism?

Also you must have missed it, but I've ran tren before with no issues with gyno, prolactic, or tren dick... and ill definitely look more into an AI

thank you

You said you "don't want to cut without an anti-catabolic agent b you'd feel like you got too small on the cut". I'm saying that since you've not passed your genetic potential (in my estimation) you can cut naturally and not lose significant lbm. If you had been past your genetic potential you would have only kept the lbm your endogenous hormonal environment could sustain. Seeing that you're within the realms of maintaining what you have natty, I'm saying you don't need to cut with AAS if yore training and diet is down bc you can do so without the drugs. If you want to use them that's your choice, I'm saying they aren't necessarily needed. I did miss where you had ran tren before but having prami/caber on hand is a wise choice. You won't always react the same to each cycle and its possible to develop sides in this one. You may even increase your dose of tren and that slight increase can trigger sides so its just better to have that on hand as a precaution. I would say Aromatase inhibitor (AI) is mandatory for almost every cycle but for you especially bc one of the keys to controlling prolactin without caber/prami is controlling your E2. Only an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) can control your E2, limit water retention, bloat, loss of sex drive, oily skin, and the rest of the sides from high estrogen.

 

[Chicago712]

You said you "don't want to cut without an anti-catabolic agent b you'd feel like you got too small on the cut". I'm saying that since you've not passed your genetic potential (in my estimation) you can cut naturally and not lose significant lbm. If you had been past your genetic potential you would have only kept the lbm your endogenous hormonal environment could sustain. Seeing that you're within the realms of maintaining what you have natty, I'm saying you don't need to cut with AAS if yore training and diet is down bc you can do so without the drugs. If you want to use them that's your choice, I'm saying they aren't necessarily needed. I did miss where you had ran tren before but having prami/caber on hand is a wise choice. You won't always react the same to each cycle and its possible to develop sides in this one. You may even increase your dose of tren and that slight increase can trigger sides so its just better to have that on hand as a precaution. I would say Aromatase inhibitor (AI) is mandatory for almost every cycle but for you especially bc one of the keys to controlling prolactin without caber/prami is controlling your E2. Only an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) can control your E2, limit water retention, bloat, loss of sex drive, oily skin, and the rest of the sides from high estrogen.

thanks for clarifying that, im going to be ordering some arimidex soon..

I've also decided to probably hold onto the tren if this cycle does become a recomp and run a low dose of the test p prolly only 250-350mg a week

 

[DreDay187]

thanks for clarifying that, im going to be ordering some arimidex soon..

I've also decided to probably hold onto the tren if this cycle does become a recomp and run a low dose of the test p prolly only 250-350mg a week

No problem . Start arimidex off at .25mg EOD and get a blood test after a week or two. See if that dosage is sufficient or if I needs to be increased.

 

[Chicago712]

No problem . Start arimidex off at .25mg EOD and get a blood test after a week or two. See if that dosage is sufficient or if I needs to be increased.

sounds good, ill have my adex by tuesday.. greatful i got a RC company literally 20miles from where I love so regular shipping only takes one night

will post labs once i get on and have everything in order