New here and Tren A question - Anyone else experience this?

[IronArchitect]

Hey guys. New here. First post. Been a lurker for a while.

Nutshell: 29 years old, TRT since 26 (autoimmune testicular failure. Sucks). Had test levels <200 since I was 19 and didnt do a thing about it. Starting TRT made me a new man. I'm a nutritional biochemist, so I'm well-versed in biology and physiology. Anyways,

Fairly new to cycling compared to most folks on these boards. On my third cycle right now. Past cycles:

First: Good ol' test e 400 mg/wk, 12 wks. Decent progress. Didn't eat enough.

Second: Test e 400 mg/wk, EQ 600 mg/wk for the first 12 wks, bumped up EQ to 800 mg/wk last 6 (18 wk cycle). Didnt get any increased hunger or vascularity from EQ. Brand was good and vouched for by multiple people. Not gonna use EQ again. Saw no benefit.

Also, I don't aromatize AT ALL. Even on this cycle, I needed no AI. I literally took 6.25mg of exemestane one day and in the next couple days my joints hurt and I was peeing constantly (couldn't retain water for the life of me no matter how much sodium I ate - it actually hurt my recovery).

Third (and current): test p 150mg/wk, tren a 350 mg/wk, mast p 150 mg/wk. Did a lot of research on this one and decided to try low test/moderate tren/low mast.

So. I read a ton about tren side effects including the aggression, insomnia, decreased appetite, night sweats, lethargy, indigestion, destruction of lipid panel, etc. I read part of the lethargy is tren's ability to block cortisol, but it also burns through thyroid hormone to a great extent. I decided to add replacement doses of T3 to combat the lethargy. So no lethargy.

So Im 8 weeks into this planned 12 week cycle, and the only traditional sides I've been experiencing are the night sweats. I have horrible insomnia anyway, so that hasn't increased or anything.

But I just got bloods done, and my lipids look great. I normally have very high lipids and NOTHING has ever been able to bring them down. Im always on high dose fish oil, cut out saturated fat totally...Tried statins, fibrates, etc. Nothing. Total normally hovers around 350, HDL 120 and LDL 220+. On tren, my total was 120, HDL 52, and LDL 65. My LDL has NEVER been below 100.

My appetite is also absolutely uncontrollable. I hate it. This was supposed to be a cut, but literally all I can think about is food. Ive been eating like 1000 cal above maintenance every day. Hate feeling full constantly. Haven't gained a pound, and my strength/physique literally hasn't gone anywhere. My exercise programming is good. So confused. The source is good and many people have used this tren to great effect.

My question is what on earth is going on here? Has anyone else experienced this from tren? I was looking forward to the god of AAS but maybe the compound just isn't for me.

 

[scorob777]

Wow, great post. Lots going on, and very interesting.

A couple questions, and comments.

Is 150 mg/wk test your normal TRT dose?

I'm surprised EQ did nothing for you, dosage should have been plenty.

I don't have any direct experience yet with test/tren/mast, but I've read a lot about it. Seems to me like 50 mg/day tren should be plenty to see effects, and I've also read just about everywhere to match mast to tren, i.e. for you 350 mg/wk. I've also heard multiple places less than 600 mg/wk mast is not effective. Again don't know from direct experience yet, but when I try this combo it will probably be 200 test, 280 to 350 tren, 400 mast.

Do you have bloodwork to see what your estrogen is doing?

As for the lipids don't know what to say other than eliminating saturated fats is likely a bad idea, there is no linkage between eating them and heart disease. Also statins extremely bad idea, latest research is showing they accelerate aging and contribute to early dementia.

 

[appleton111]

your doing 150mg of test per week and mixed with tren?

 

[IronArchitect]

100 mg/wk is supposed to be my prescribed TRT dose, but I normally do 150 mg/wk (Shhh).

I didn't get E2 done on this cycle yet.

But to give you an idea of the degree of my non-aromatization, on my Test E 400 mg/wk and EQ 800 mg/wk my E2 was 17 pg/ml (ref range was 20-55 pg/ml) with no AI. So it was even below reference range. I eat an absolute shit ton of the indole-3-carbinol containing veggies though (broccoli, kale, kholrabi, etc..Probably about 2-3 pounds/day) so that could be rapidly excreting my E2. Donno.

So you're half right. As far as saturated fat goes, it absolutely does raise LDL, but its the high LDL that doesn't correlate with heart disease like they once thought. So you're right and I'm just picking at semantics, I know, but as a scientist Im trained to be a picky, semantic-correcting asshole haha. Someone's gotta be a bitch during the peer-review process.

But yeah, my short stint with the statins sucked ass. Myalgia like a motherfucker. Got off that shit super fast.

But awesome, I'll try upping the mast dose to equal the tren.

appleton111 - Yeah. What's your opinion on this? The TRT doses of test and moderate tren has a huge cult following on many boards. Some still prefer higher test to tren. Some prefer equal. I sense a slight tone of condescension and doubt in that post. Do you not approve?

 

[scorob777]

I didn't get E2 done on this cycle yet.

But to give you an idea of the degree of my non-aromatization, on my Test E 400 mg/wk and EQ 800 mg/wk my E2 was 17 pg/ml (ref range was 20-55 pg/ml) with no AI. So it was even below reference range. I eat an absolute shit ton of the indole-3-carbinol containing veggies though (broccoli, kale, kholrabi, etc..Probably about 2-3 pounds/day) so that could be rapidly excreting my E2. Donno.

What I was thinking there was perhaps too low E2 is holding back your gains, just a thought.

And thanks for the info on saturated fats, I'd rather be corrected and learn something than stay dumb.

FWIW, I've read higher test to tren leads to worse sides, so I'm in favor of your low test higher tren approach.

 

[tbonexl]

Your mast dose per week isn't even worth taking. I'm into low dose cycles and all that but mast would be the exception. 600mgs per week would be the sweet spot. I would also agree that maybe your low e2 levels are hampering gains...

 

[IronArchitect]

Your mast dose per week isn't even worth taking. I'm into low dose cycles and all that but mast would be the exception. 600mgs per week would be the sweet spot. I would also agree that maybe your low e2 levels are hampering gains...

Haha, never thought I'd be asking how to RAISE my E2. Ill back off on all the brassica veg and see if that makes any difference.

And drink more beer. Bitch tits here I come.

 

[scorob777]

So, sounds like one possible approach would be to up the mast dosage to the 400 to 600 mg/wk range, and cut down on the broccoli, etc. Back fill with spinach if that isn't one of the brassica veggies???

Seems to me like that approach with 50 mg/day of tren should have dramatic effect.

If not, then perhaps your next go 'round you could try the time tested test/deca/dbol stack. If aromatizing isn't a concern, or you perhaps need a little boost in the E2, this might do the trick.

 

[IronArchitect]

Thanks for the reply. Will def try it out. Spinach doesnt have high I3C content, so I think i'll try that out. The past two days Ive been using equal mast/equal test/equal tren, 50 mg/day. What I have noticed is that the roaring hunger I was experiencing from tren went down after doing this (thank god), and my mood has actually improved invariably. I was never aggressive, but I was definitely noticing some depression rearing its head. Upping the test/mast has alleviated this like crazy.

Its all a big game of trial and error...Yeah there are some set-in-stone protocols, but everyones so individual it just takes some experimentation...

 

[AgeisjustaNumber]

for a first kick at tren/test/mast, my opinion is like 50/50/40 ie: 350mg/wk test & tren + 150mg/wk mast
my last run was somewhat higher, with like you said night sweats the worst side, but my estrogen/prolactin
levels were elevated ..... but that's easy to fix
the low test high tren guys are adding a little dbol & deca..... at the beginning of the cycle and balancing test/tren there after....
or so i was told...haven't done that much because my system hates dbol...or my stomach does.