Protein Intake, an article by 3J

[3J]

Protein: How Much Is Right for You?
By: 3J
3J's Nutrition | Diet and fitness consulting to get you to the next level.​

Its one of the most confusing and debated questions in the bodybuilding community. As a sports nutritionist I have seen so many different ways to come up with the correct protein intake for individual needs that I can understand why it would make someone who is new to dieting so helpless. Ratios of gram to kg in weight on one side, the U.S.D.A***8217;s baffling recommended daily allowance of 0.36g protein/1 lb bodyweight ratio, and the popular 1-2g per kg ratio that I have seen in the amateur bodybuilding community. One of the biggest issues with any ratio of protein to bodyweight is that it does not take body fat into consideration. You could be 200lbs at 7% bodyfat or 200lbs at 27%, there is a big difference in the needs of one vs the other person.


There are those who will recommend large doses of protein, and there are those who will recommend mediocre doses. Who has it right? In my professional opinion I think they both have it wrong. If I was a 200lb guy the USDA recommended amount of protein would be about 12 ounces of chicken. Hey, I could eat that in one sitting and be good for the day right? Nothing could be further from the truth.


Here is the real truth, protein intake requirements fall greatly on the specific needs of the individual. If youre just an average joe who doesn***8217;t do any exercise but wants to stay healthy 120g of protein should actually do you right. If youre an athlete then your intake has to go up. What type of athlete you are and what kind of athletics youre doing is going to weigh heavily on how much protein you need. Also your other macros, mainly your carb intake (which means the philosophy of dieting youre following), will also affect the amount of protein you should be taking in.


Lets state some obvious facts. If youre trying to lose weight, you are likely cutting your calories down. Technically, most people will reduce carb in take (not necessary for weight loss btw) to help reduce calories. A higher protein intake would be more suitable for cutting than a lower one. Research has shown that a higher protein intake on a caloric deficit increases fat loss and reduces catabolism. A great rule of thumb to keep in mind is that the lower your carb intake is, the higher your protein intake should be. For example, if I was running 200g protein and 300g carbs to maintain and I decided to cut, I would likely take my protein up to 250-300 and carbs down to 150. Because carbs and protein have a synergistic effect on muscle growth there has to be a balance. When one is lacking, the other must pick up the slack. That is also the reason why ketogenic (no carb) diets have such high protein intake requirements. Protein also causes a very important hormone to come into play, glucagon. Glucagon has been shown to activate released stored fat into the bloodstream for fuel. Higher protein levels do help glucagon release which, in turn, helps fat loss.


In retrospect, if you are trying to gain weight your main focus should be a higher carb diet. So If I were a 200lb male at 15% body fat and I started a bulk I would likely have a very high carb and moderate protein diet. 200g protein while at 400 to 500g carbs is very acceptable. The bigger you are and the more intense your exercise is, the higher that protein intake would have to be. Yet I have never seen a client who has needed to eat more than 300g protein a day. Usually that is overkill for most of the population.


So where does that leave us? Let me give you a specific guideline for the average joe working out

1. Never reduce your protein intake lower than 200g, I don***8217;t care if youre 150lbs and have never lifted in your life. 200g is a great place to start and stay for a while when trying to add muscle

2. The lower your carb intake, the higher your protein intake should be (with a limit of 300g a day for those with more lbm)

3. If youre over 200lbs and under 12% bodyfat, I recommend no less than 230g protein. If youre bigger than 230lbs at 12% I recommend no less than 250g protein.

4. These estimates are for BODYBUILDING ONLY and again are just ESIMATES! No one will know what your needs are as much as you or a professional who is helping you along the way. Different types of athletes will have different needs. A basketball player doesn***8217;t want to end up looking like Arnold, nor does a swimmer. Those people have much different needs than you do.

So forget all this bodyweight to protein per gram ratio non-sense. If youre new, starting at 200g protein evenly divided throughout the day in 4-6 meals is a great place to be. If youre experienced, have more muscle, or are at a very strenuous and advanced level of training take your protein intake up.


One thing you definitely want to keep an eye on is your creatinine/bun levels when on higher protein intake diets for long periods of time. High protein diets sustained for long periods of time HAVE SHOWN to negatively affect your kidney function. I recommend cycling from higher to lower intake of protein based upon your carb intake and goals.


If interested in my professional services please contact me at 3jdiet@gmail.com

Or click the link below for my website
3J's Nutrition | Diet and fitness consulting to get you to the next level.

 

[halfwit]

Absolute truth, loving the pearls of wisdom 3J!

 

[carverelli]

So you're saying you need less protein to build muscle yet more to preserve it? Mind you, I'm not a nutritionist but that's hard for me to understand

 

[3J]

So you're saying you need less protein to build muscle yet more to preserve it? Mind you, I'm not a nutritionist but that's hard for me to understand

Could you clarify your question please?

 

[3J]

I don't recall anything about needing more to preserve it?

 

[mvg17]

is this experience based with you and your clients? cause scientific research/journals would mostly say otherwise. Around .82g/lbs etc. I am not saying its wrong, cause i just want to know if you have any scientific support for these claims aswell. Unless you are on gear, than i am pretty sure optimal protein needs increase

 

[3J]

is this experience based with you and your clients? cause scientific research/journals would mostly say otherwise. Around .82g/lbs etc. I am not saying its wrong, cause i just want to know if you have any scientific support for these claims aswell. Unless you are on gear, than i am pretty sure optimal protein needs increase

per lb of what??? fat?? muscle?? water?? total weight??

so should a 400lb 50% bodyfat individual eat well over 300g protein??

i didn't say these ratios do not have some sort of scientific backing.. i said they are flawed in the way they are presented, or the way the individual with no background in the matter understands it

 

[3J]

So you're saying you need less protein to build muscle yet more to preserve it? Mind you, I'm not a nutritionist but that's hard for me to understand

what im saying is that there should be a balance met between how much protein you take in and how many carbs you take in.. thats the simplest way of saying it..

also this article is a very very generalized guideline.. actual protein intake requirements for an individual are much more complicated.. especially with things like anabolics and pct

this article isn't for the guy with the degree in nutrition... its for the guy who has no idea what he is doing and is confused by the 10000 things that are online which just dont give a straight answer

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

So you're saying you need less protein to build muscle yet more to preserve it? Mind you, I'm not a nutritionist but that's hard for me to understand

Don't want to butt in but yes, this is correct.

The scientific consensus is that around 0.8g/lbm of protein is sufficient to build muscle because of certain biological limits on how much protein synthesis your body can actually go through.
However, you can obviously side step these biological limits through steroids, so higher protein intake may be beneficial due to the higher overall potential for net protein balance.

For dieting, protein intake tends to be anywhere from 1.25-2g/lbm depending on your current bf%, length of dieting, size of the deficit, level of activity, etc.
The reasoning behind this is that when dieting the chances of your body using its own protein stores (muscle) is higher - especially when relatively lean. Higher protein intakes ensure that your body uses the protein from foods for any energy needs rather than your own protein stores - in other words, high protein intakes are muscle protein sparing.
As 3J mentioned in the article, carbs allow you to not necessarily need as much protein since carbs are also protein sparing though not to the same degree as protein itself.

Hope this makes sense

Overall I think this is a good write up by 3J (as always) - a nice basic understanding for those who aren't necessarily inclined to read through research and/or confused by the amount of information out there.
Keep it coming man.

 

[3J]

i keep my article in laymans terms.. 1. alot of people cannot keep up with research readings 2. its a pain in the ass to write like that in the first place..

by putting it plainly.. i give the guy who isn't educated in the matter, or doesn't have a higher degree of education, a chance to understand what he needs to do..

 

[carverelli]

I don't recall anything about needing more to preserve it?

I thought you said on a defecit 200-250 gr protein but on a bulk it was more like 150-200 gr protein but more carbs
Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand

 

[carverelli]

Right on guys! Great info. Zilla helped fill in the blanks. , thanks stud

 

[mvg17]

per lb of what??? fat?? muscle?? water?? total weight??

so should a 400lb 50% bodyfat individual eat well over 300g protein??

i didn't say these ratios do not have some sort of scientific backing.. i said they are flawed in the way they are presented, or the way the individual with no background in the matter understands it

No ofc not, i just said around without going into further detail Yeah for someone who doesnt do much 70-120g is fine, and literature consensus was around .82 i believe. And what you have stated about taking BF% into account etc is totally true. But i wanted to know if this is more based on you and your experience with clients for optimal results. Because if it is, and especially if its with your natty clients, than i was thinking of giving it a try aswell. Because as a student that has to read journals everyday and write some aswell, i know that "science" always comes after "experience". For example what would you recommend me for protein intake: 6'2, 21.8 years old, 176 lbs (calipers say i am 5% bf, but i would say 7-8 just to be safe) and do weighttraining 6 times a week so around 6-8h. I calculated that to be at least 144g per day. But according to your article i have to consume at least 200g. What would you really recommend?

 

[3J]

No ofc not, i just said around without going into further detail Yeah for someone who doesnt do much 70-120g is fine, and literature consensus was around .82 i believe. And what you have stated about taking BF% into account etc is totally true. But i wanted to know if this is more based on you and your experience with clients for optimal results. Because if it is, and especially if its with your natty clients, than i was thinking of giving it a try aswell. Because as a student that has to read journals everyday and write some aswell, i know that "science" always comes after "experience". For example what would you recommend me for protein intake: 6'2, 21.8 years old, 176 lbs (calipers say i am 5% bf, but i would say 7-8 just to be safe) and do weighttraining 6 times a week so around 6-8h. I calculated that to be at least 144g per day. But according to your article i have to consume at least 200g. What would you really recommend?

144g of protein??

what are your goals??

 

[3J]

Don't want to butt in but yes, this is correct.

The scientific consensus is that around 0.8g/lbm of protein is sufficient to build muscle because of certain biological limits on how much protein synthesis your body can actually go through.
However, you can obviously side step these biological limits through steroids, so higher protein intake may be beneficial due to the higher overall potential for net protein balance.

For dieting, protein intake tends to be anywhere from 1.25-2g/lbm depending on your current bf%, length of dieting, size of the deficit, level of activity, etc.
The reasoning behind this is that when dieting the chances of your body using its own protein stores (muscle) is higher - especially when relatively lean. Higher protein intakes ensure that your body uses the protein from foods for any energy needs rather than your own protein stores - in other words, high protein intakes are muscle protein sparing.
As 3J mentioned in the article, carbs allow you to not necessarily need as much protein since carbs are also protein sparing though not to the same degree as protein itself.

Hope this makes sense

Overall I think this is a good write up by 3J (as always) - a nice basic understanding for those who aren't necessarily inclined to read through research and/or confused by the amount of information out there.
Keep it coming man.

your input is always welcomed brother..

 

[mvg17]

144g of protein??

what are your goals??

to build muscle

 

[3J]

to build muscle

i would at the least run it at 200... and higher predicated on your carb intake and fat intake..

 

[mvg17]

i would at the least run it at 200... and higher predicated on your carb intake and fat intake..

i may actually give this a try and see it for myself if it works or at least feels better over the course of few months thx

 

[3J]

Ask yourself something.. What's the difference between 144g protein and 200? A little over 200 calories? No where high enough to cause any significant rise in bun levels.. But all the opportunity to help you grow..

 

[mvg17]

Ask yourself something.. What's the difference between 144g protein and 200? A little over 200 calories? No where high enough to cause any significant rise in bun levels.. But all the opportunity to help you grow..

yeah thats true, and makes sense, hopefully this will become something life changing for me thx a lot!