Realistic first timer gains?

[Pinwheel]

Hello all, new member here, hoping to pick some brains as I self educate myself on pinning.

I've been working out for about 6 years, with three being weightlifting. I'm 29, 6'1 195lbs and around 12% bf at the moment. I know it's looked down on, but I'm about to start a PH cycle to see how my body reacts to cycling and PCT.

With that being said, I intend to follow the first cycle thread that's stickied on this board with test e or c. I have two questions though...after 6 weeks on PH and 4 more of PCT, how long should I wait to do a pinning cycle? The first timer thread said wait as long as the cycle and pct was for, but does that stay true for ph? Also, with a cycle of test e or c at 500mg/week, what type of gains should I see on cycle and what are the realistic keepable gains if I follow the threads pct exactly?

Thanks in advance for your help and patience!

 

[dontworryaboutit23]

Just do a 12 wk cycle of test

I used ph before and they fked with me bad and took me a while to recover
Plenty of tube videos of how to pin

 

[n0limits]

I will start this off saying I am new to this too.

I don't know much about ph. I haven't really researched and I haven't tried any. All I know is they can be very liver toxic, and I've heard more negative than positive about them. With that being said, they have their place. Probably not with a first cycle, but it's your life.

Right now I'm on my first 12 week cycle. Just Test E 500mg per week split up into two shots. So far I'm into my 3rd week as of today, and I am noticing strength gains, constant hard-ons, and some more energy. I have been told gains don't start to become noticeable until the 6-7th week so 12 weeks for long esters is recommended.

 

[fat_boy]

yea, imo do a test cycle to start with. phs are horrible and make you feel shitty for the most part. i took a while to recover from them as well and they gave me gyno flare ups, estrogen and prolactin, months after.
on my first cycle test 500mg/week i felt real good. not as good as some people say, i felt 100% normal in regards to mood/sleep/motivation etc, but i was super happy because of my lifts and size just shooting up. at 2 and a half weeks i was like 'holy shit, and that's only when it started

 

[gram of tren]

im also gonna jump in and say dont even waste the time doing a ph cycle. what do you mean see how your body reacts to cycling and pct? you will find that out when you do an actual cycle. ph are a waste.

 

[Pinwheel]

Well, I HAVE the ph stuff and pct...kinda didn't want to waste it. I also don't have any local sources, so I planned on doing a log, making myself known here, getting up my post count and eventually asking for help with online sources before I started a true test cycle. I'm trying to go about this the right way for the forum according to what I've read. So unless someone wants to pm me an online source, I'm going to keep with the ph lol. About gains though, on test e/c what's a realistic amount of lbs to put on? And with the test, will my bf drop down any?

 

[gram of tren]

there is no realistic amount of weight. it all depends on you and how you train and eat. sell the PH, it's useless

 

[skinnypete]

Do you have a goal for running this cycle? get stronger, PRs? Bulk? cut, drop bf? Choose your destiny, plan and execute sir.

 

[clman8585]

Is your pct some bullshit OTC pct stuff from a ph company? Like..hcgenerate...etc ..

If so, at least get yourself a real pct that will actually work. Ph will shut you down and give you nasty gyno without a real pct.

you need nolvadex and clomid

 

[Pinwheel]

I have clomid and nolva for pct. My plan for the cycle was to bulk, I've been doing it naturally, but figured a bump in my lean muscle gain would make it faster.

 

[TatsForTats]

you want a source man? try the place that has nolva and clomid

 

[Pinwheel]

you want a source man? try the place that has nolva and clomid

You'd think that. I'm not pressed to get one, its only a matter of time.

 

[Pinwheel]

Basic Test E and dbol is a good first cycle, 15-20 lbs is common maybe more.

Thanks, that's more along the lines of what I was asking. Is that 15-20lbs that's maintainable after coming off cycle?

 

[Kazmir]

Realistically gains from a first cycle when all is said and done and back to normal levels your looking at anywhere around 10-12 pounds once water is shed and stuff, main thing about keeping your gains is going to be a solid diet without it youll be lucky to keep any gains. I have seen so many people just go back to eating the way they were before cycle when they are done and all the gains eventually go away..

 

[snowpatrol123]

The amount you keep depends a lot on how close you are to your natural potential too. If you're below, and end your cycle below, there's really no reason that you wouldn't keep 90% or more of the MUSCLE gained after a proper PCT. Most of what you'll lose is water weight depending on how much you bloated during your cycle, and possibly some fat if you ate mcD's every day and diet it off afterwards. (don't diet DON'T DIET during PCT don't even think about it continue eating like a fatty )

 

[TrainInsane88]

My first test cycle I gained 20 pounds and kept about 14. That was with bunk put gear and was a terrible 3 or 4 months. Anyways I say toss the pH and eat eat eat until you get the real deal. Second cycle starts tomorrow I'm so pumped.

 

[Pinwheel]

Yeah, I'm eating like a fatty already. Will a cycle of test e drop some of my natty bulk fat off? 10-15lbs after cycle is exactly what I'm after.

 

[n0limits]

I think it can help drop bf, but you should adjust your diet to your goal. So if you want to recomp then eat as clean as possible, but over maintenance. If your goal is to gain overall mass and strength, eat everything in sight lol.

 

[snowpatrol123]

Recomp is possible but easier with compounds like tren, mast etc added into the mix.

If you're only running test (which is still a solid cycle) I would suggest picking "bulk" or "cut" and be diligent, either 500 cal below maintenance to cut or 500-1000 above to bulk.

Your results will be much more noticeable and you'll be much happier with the end product in my opinion.

 

[Shredchem]

I mean, you'll make gains off of your ph cycle for sure, but you'll lose a decent amount after coming off.

Why not use a test base and run it for 12-15 weeks with the ph or oral as the kicker for the first 4-6 weeks? You'll make a lot more gains and thus, have more net gains in the end.