second cycle idea test, deca, equpoise, tren, npp

[simofit]

Stats
Age: 21 years old
weight: 200 lbs (91 kg)
height: 5'8 ft (1,79 m)
Body Fat: 12%
First cycle: Test E 500 mg per week (for 10 weeks), 30 mg Dbol per day (4 weeks)
GHRP6 Bridge between cycles.

Goal
Bulking to get big and vascular.

Diet
4000 kcal-5000 kcal per day.
50 % carbs, 30 % protein, 20 % fat

Training Routine

Monday: Shoulders
Tuesday: Arms
Wednesday: Chest
Thursday: Rest
Friday: Back
Saturday: Arms
Sunday: Legs
1 exercice of abs eod after training + 10 min of cardio

Second cycle proposition


1-4: 80 mg of Npp EOD (kickstart)
1-16: 250 mg of Test C E3D
1-16: 250 mg of Eq E3D (for vascularity, hunger and good quality muscle)
1-10: 250 mg of Deca E3D
10-16: 60 mg of Tren Ace EOD (to see how i react to Tren for my future 3rd cycle Test/Tren/Mast)

4-16: 0.5 Adex EOD
6-16: 9 capsules per day of Rich Piana 5% Nutrition Liver & Organ Defender
i will run HCG the whole cycle
Caber on hand
GHRP6 if i have appetite problems
Blood work every 4 weeks
PCT: Clomid and Nolvadex

What do you think of this cycle?
Any suggestions?

Thank you.

 

[Milton]

Welcome. if your goal is to get big and vascular then work on your diet and training. no need for you to get into gear just yet. wait till youre done growing so you can reap the benefits further in life.
and for the love of humanity, tren is not for beginners.

 

[simofit]

Thanks for your advice, but it's not what i was expecting as an answer for the moment, i have buyed all this so i need only suggestions and good advices that will help me in this cycle.
i have already on my belt a Test Dbol cycle, so i am not discovering gear for first time to have this kind of advice, my training and diet are perfect. i wanna compete in 1-2 years max so i am not going to wait.
For Tren i know is not for beginners, that's why i will do it only in the last 6 weeks, will the minimum dosage of 60 mg eod. it's not a good idea?

 

[scorob777]

At 5'8" and 200# 12% bf you are already jacked. Congrats on that.

My comments are:

1 - 21 is too young, but you'll do whatever you want so best advice would be to try to minimize harm - meaning either don't do it, or minimize doses, always manage estrogen and use HCG, and get your PCT timing right

2 - 10 weeks is short for deca, even with the NPP kickstart. 12 or 14 would be better, but be aware deca is a bitch to recover from - and at 21 recovery should be super high on your priorities list

3 - both deca and EQ have super long half lives, 14 days and 15 days respectively. Your plan has you taking 583 mg/wk boldenone (250 E3D) right up to week 16. You didn't mention how long to wait after last shot until PCT starts, but you did say stop Adex week 16. For that dosage of EQ you need to wait about five and a half weeks for the ester to clear your blood before starting PCT, so you'd want to keep taking the adex and HCG weeks 17, 18, 19, 20, and 21 - then start PCT week 22

Here's a plot showing your EQ blood levels building up at 250E3D. Notice how they keep on rising all the way up to the end, long esters take forever to build up and forever to clear out.

View attachment 567324

Here's one shifted to show last shot start of week #7. Ideally you'd like your blood level to bleed down to ~14ish to start PCT. Notice that takes about five and a half weeks to happen, so that's why I'm suggesting you take 17, 18, 19, 20, and 21 off before starting your PCT, and also keep taking the adex and HCG right up to week 21.

View attachment 567325


As far as the tren goes? Bad idea to mix it with Deca, and even though you've stopped the Deca after week #10 you will have very high blood levels for four weeks or so after stopping, so you'll essentially be doing Deca and Tren at the same time. You might get lucky and get away with it, or you might not and get ED or possibly other weird symptoms like loss of libido, gyno, lethargy, etc. It's a roll of the dice you really need not take. Save Tren for a future run without any deca in it.

 

[scorob777]

Ok, here's where it get's interesting. For grins I put in all your compounds into this chart, according to what you listed (minus the Tren Ace):

1-4: 80 mg of Npp EOD (kickstart)
1-16: 250 mg of Test C E3D
1-16: 250 mg of Eq E3D (for vascularity, hunger and good quality muscle)
1-10: 250 mg of Deca E3D

This is interesting to see total blood levels. Yellow is EQ, blue is NPP, red is Test Cyp, green is Deca. You hit blood levels at peak over 17x normal levels. Typical first cycle of 500 Test is about 5x, so that's a pretty good jump from cycle #1 to cycle #2, and sets a bad precedent for where you'd need to go in the future.

View attachment 567326

Here is the curve shifted to left to show bleed down for PCT. The interesting thing (to me anyways) is the chart in the post above showed about 5-1/2 week required. Now when the Test Cyp and remnants of the Deca stopped 5 weeks earlier are added in the story changes.

View attachment 567327

According to this you don't bleed down to natural levels of ~14ish until just over seven weeks past last shot. So that pushes out PCT to week #24, and extends the gap for Adex and HCG from 17 to 23.

This was interesting to plot out. I wonder if you realized what the sum total of all these drugs would be taken together???

And I wonder if you realize the gravity of possibly getting the PCT wrong. You didn't say how long to wait in your post, but assuming it was two weeks with four weeks PCT - you would in effect exit PCT still 100% suppressed. After a long Deca and Tren run this could very well mean serious and permanent damage to your HPTA. It would suck to doom yourself to TRT at age 21, so really you should probably not do this at all, or should at least attempt to do it as right as possible.

 

[thomzie_]

Ok, here's where it get's interesting. For grins I put in all your compounds into this chart, according to what you listed (minus the Tren Ace):

1-4: 80 mg of Npp EOD (kickstart)
1-16: 250 mg of Test C E3D
1-16: 250 mg of Eq E3D (for vascularity, hunger and good quality muscle)
1-10: 250 mg of Deca E3D

This is interesting to see total blood levels. Yellow is EQ, blue is NPP, red is Test Cyp, green is Deca. You hit blood levels at peak over 17x normal levels. Typical first cycle of 500 Test is about 5x, so that's a pretty good jump from cycle #1 to cycle #2, and sets a bad precedent for where you'd need to go in the future.

View attachment 567326

Here is the curve shifted to left to show bleed down for PCT. The interesting thing (to me anyways) is the chart in the post above showed about 5-1/2 week required. Now when the Test Cyp and remnants of the Deca stopped 5 weeks earlier are added in the story changes.

View attachment 567327

According to this you don't bleed down to natural levels of ~14ish until just over seven weeks past last shot. So that pushes out PCT to week #24, and extends the gap for Adex and HCG from 17 to 23.

This was interesting to plot out. I wonder if you realized what the sum total of all these drugs would be taken together???

And I wonder if you realize the gravity of possibly getting the PCT wrong. You didn't say how long to wait in your post, but assuming it was two weeks with four weeks PCT - you would in effect exit PCT still 100% suppressed. After a long Deca and Tren run this could very well mean serious and permanent damage to your HPTA. It would suck to doom yourself to TRT at age 21, so really you should probably not do this at all, or should at least attempt to do it as right as possible.

Absolutely this from a medical standpoint, this is like going from a 200hp car at 16 years old to an 800hp car at 17 years old. Guaranteed to crash from not working your way up properly. Even I don't need to be a cycle veteran to see this.

I understand you already bought everything, but you're also only 21 years old and this is only your second cycle.. whether you want to believe it or not your body's plates and joints are still growing on their own. You will physically change a LOT from 21 to 30 years old.

In my opinion this cycle is completely overdoing it, tankmanbob proved you(and I) didn't even understand the half lives or when to successfully start PCT.

 

[tbonexl]

A couple things to mention here. You say you purchased your gear already. That doesn't mean you have to use it all. Most will stock up on gear not run everything they have.

Looking over your training schedule has me questioning a few things.
Monday -shoulders
Tuesday -arms
Wednesday -chest
If you train with high intensity monday and tuesday how will you be able to hit chest wednesday with all your secondary muscles highly fatigued? You use a lot of shoulders and triceps while doing most if not all chest movements. I would suggest changing your training around a little bit.
What all are you doing in your 10 minutes of cardio?

 

[Milton]

Thanks for your advice, but it's not what i was expecting as an answer for the moment, i have buyed all this so i need only suggestions and good advices that will help me in this cycle.
i have already on my belt a Test Dbol cycle, so i am not discovering gear for first time to have this kind of advice, my training and diet are perfect. i wanna compete in 1-2 years max so i am not going to wait.
For Tren i know is not for beginners, that's why i will do it only in the last 6 weeks, will the minimum dosage of 60 mg eod. it's not a good idea?

OK then how about your too young then?

 

[freqfly]

You are 21 years and have done 1 cyce; your proposed cycle has 5 compounds!! Bro; focus on your training and diet; with steroids more is NOT better. What's your thought process behind this?

 

[simofit]

Thanks guys for all your answers, a special Thank for tankmanbob for all the information.

As you said i was planning to do a 4 weeks pct 2 weeks after the last injection because i thought that i need to wait the maximum of half lifes of different coumpounds, Even if i didn't really understand why i have to wait 5 weeks and half i am planning to change the pct protocol, i will do some researches to understand this.
My cycle will start in September so i have enough time to change my ideas.

For Adex i am not really sensitive to gyno, my doctor told me for my first cycle (500 mg Test E and 30 mg Dbol) to not use it and i didn't and my E2 were good.
So for this cycle many compounds i will use it.

I will like to know which website or software are you using to get this curves. Thanks.

So this is my new proposition:


1-4: 80 mg of Npp EOD (kickstart)
1-16: 250 mg of Test C E3D
1-16: 250 mg of Eq E3D (for vascularity, hunger and good quality muscle)
1-12: 250 mg of Deca E3D

dropped the tren

Adex and hcg for 21 weeks
PCT Clomid and Nolvadex 5 weeks after last injection, as i am doing regular bloodwork i will stop Clomid and Novadex once everything is good. so it can be more than 4 weeks.

 

[scorob777]

Thanks guys for all your answers, a special Thank for tankmanbob for all the information.

As you said i was planning to do a 4 weeks pct 2 weeks after the last injection because i thought that i need to wait the maximum of half lifes of different coumpounds, Even if i didn't really understand why i have to wait 5 weeks and half i am planning to change the pct protocol, i will do some researches to understand this.
My cycle will start in September so i have enough time to change my ideas.

For Adex i am not really sensitive to gyno, my doctor told me for my first cycle (500 mg Test E and 30 mg Dbol) to not use it and i didn't and my E2 were good.
So for this cycle many compounds i will use it.

I will like to know which website or software are you using to get this curves. Thanks.

So this is my new proposition:


1-4: 80 mg of Npp EOD (kickstart)
1-16: 250 mg of Test C E3D
1-16: 250 mg of Eq E3D (for vascularity, hunger and good quality muscle)
1-12: 250 mg of Deca E3D

dropped the tren

Adex and hcg for 21 weeks
PCT Clomid and Nolvadex 5 weeks after last injection, as i am doing regular bloodwork i will stop Clomid and Novadex once everything is good. so it can be more than 4 weeks.

I'm glad you are going to take some time to do more research. I think you are too young to be messing around with this.

Dropping Tren was a good idea. But, you still have total dose of 2,030 mg/wk for #1 to 4, and 1,750 mg/wk for 5 to 12 (assuming E3D means 2.333 injections per week).

There is no need for doses that high, your body will probably be completely saturated at 1/4 those levels so adding more only increases costs and side effects, not results.

If you insist on messing around with this you'd be better off staying with 500 test/wk and adding in an oral or maybe one other compound at a time. You would honestly get better results tinkering with your diet and exercises than just piling drugs on.

To get to that calculator type steroid calculator roidcalc in Google and it's the 2nd one.