Seven weeks in to TRT, not feelin it lately

[Junior.]

Hi guys, new here and new to TRT, 46 years old, 6' 4", 235-255#, with a bunch of belly fat (I carry all of my extra weight here, otherwise I'm pretty slim) well controlled Type 2 diabetes (with meds and diet) been feeling like crap for a long time, years....no energy, fatigue, irritable, libido slowing down, but mostly, just flat out lazy, really, really lazy.

March 10th 2013, TT 323, feeling like crap, just lazy and grumpy, down in the dumps! Libido and erections still good though, been this way for years.

December 9th 2013, TT 318, feeling like crap, still lazy, grumpy and down. Zero libido and lame wood.

December 17th 2013, 200mg injection of Test C, didn't make a bit of difference.

December 26th 2013, TT 304, This would explain why.

December 30th 2013, 300mg injection of Test C, started feeling the effects of this shot a couple days later, energy picked up, things started getting done around the house, improved mood, pretty good wood, sometimes really good wood, waking up with wood a couple times a night, annoying wood every morning (in a good, way) getting ass every day, sometimes twice a day, I'm happy, the wife is happy, things are going well, for about ten days, and then start to fall off

January 7th 2014, TT 701, still feeling good, things continue to go well for a few more days.

January 13th, 300mg injection of Test C, feeling crappy again, not quite as bad as before starting TRT, but not even close to the prior two weeks, so the Doc ups my dose to.....

January 27th, 350mg injection of Test C, since then I feel lousy, worse than ever, and I couldn't get wood if my life depended on it, I'm guessing my E2 is high but it's just that....a guess.

I know that every 2 weeks is a joke, I've been asking for weekly injections since the start, he says that when we get the dosage nailed down he'll teach me how to self inject so I can do it at home, at that point I plan on injecting twice a week.

I go back for another injection on February 10th, I am going to tell him I want blood work done and I want to make sure I cover all my bases, I'll get the blood work done on the 12th for peak levels...
TT
LH (I don't even know what this stands for)
FSH (or this)
Metabolic Panel
Prolactin
Estradiol (sensitive)
PSA

Does this cover everything I need to get checked? Any suggestions? I've learned almost everything I know about T and low T from lurking on this forum, you guys are very knowledgeable and helpful, thanks in advance!

 

[Mprtz]

Yeah, with those doses and at your bodyweight you are probably getting quite a bit of E2 aromatization. If I were you I wouldn't wait and I'd spend the $50 to get my own blood test ASAP to know where you stand. It really is very easy unless you live in a few nixed states or are out in the country.

I wonder if your dosage is every really going to settle down at a 2 week injection interval... a decent trough will have you at pretty high peak levels. If you get a blood test at peak your doc may really cut that 350mg dose, which will have you feeling bad at the end of two weeks. Maybe do your own blood test at peak and have the doc test at trough.

Having T too high doesn't feel bad to most guys provided estradiol is in check. If your doctor is unwilling to prescribe an AI I'd consider going elsewhere.

 

[Soybean70]

Hi guys, new here and new to TRT, 46 years old, 6' 4", 235-255#, with a bunch of belly fat (I carry all of my extra weight here, otherwise I'm pretty slim) well controlled Type 2 diabetes (with meds and diet) been feeling like crap for a long time, years....no energy, fatigue, irritable, libido slowing down, but mostly, just flat out lazy, really, really lazy.

March 10th 2013, TT 323, feeling like crap, just lazy and grumpy, down in the dumps! Libido and erections still good though, been this way for years.

December 9th 2013, TT 318, feeling like crap, still lazy, grumpy and down. Zero libido and lame wood.

December 17th 2013, 200mg injection of Test C, didn't make a bit of difference.

December 26th 2013, TT 304, This would explain why.

December 30th 2013, 300mg injection of Test C, started feeling the effects of this shot a couple days later, energy picked up, things started getting done around the house, improved mood, pretty good wood, sometimes really good wood, waking up with wood a couple times a night, annoying wood every morning (in a good, way) getting ass every day, sometimes twice a day, I'm happy, the wife is happy, things are going well, for about ten days, and then start to fall off

January 7th 2014, TT 701, still feeling good, things continue to go well for a few more days.

January 13th, 300mg injection of Test C, feeling crappy again, not quite as bad as before starting TRT, but not even close to the prior two weeks, so the Doc ups my dose to.....

January 27th, 350mg injection of Test C, since then I feel lousy, worse than ever, and I couldn't get wood if my life depended on it, I'm guessing my E2 is high but it's just that....a guess.

I know that every 2 weeks is a joke, I've been asking for weekly injections since the start, he says that when we get the dosage nailed down he'll teach me how to self inject so I can do it at home, at that point I plan on injecting twice a week.

I go back for another injection on February 10th, I am going to tell him I want blood work done and I want to make sure I cover all my bases, I'll get the blood work done on the 12th for peak levels...
TT
LH (I don't even know what this stands for)
FSH (or this)
Metabolic Panel
Prolactin
Estradiol (sensitive)
PSA

Does this cover everything I need to get checked? Any suggestions? I've learned almost everything I know about T and low T from lurking on this forum, you guys are very knowledgeable and helpful, thanks in advance!

Inject every 3-4 days. Take about 5mg of liquid stane for e2. 5-10mg of liquid cia daily. You will be a walking hardon.

 

[Junior.]

Yeah, with those doses and at your bodyweight you are probably getting quite a bit of E2 aromatization. If I were you I wouldn't wait and I'd spend the $50 to get my own blood test ASAP to know where you stand. It really is very easy unless you live in a few nixed states or are out in the country.

I wonder if your dosage is every really going to settle down at a 2 week injection interval... a decent trough will have you at pretty high peak levels. If you get a blood test at peak your doc may really cut that 350mg dose, which will have you feeling bad at the end of two weeks. Maybe do your own blood test at peak and have the doc test at trough.

Having T too high doesn't feel bad to most guys provided estradiol is in check. If your doctor is unwilling to prescribe an AI I'd consider going elsewhere.

I hadn't thought about the peak levels getting my dose lowered, you're probably right about that, I'll have to look in to getting my own labs done, and I'm not sure how he feels about an AI, I'll talk to him about it on Monday, I really hope he's willing to work with me and learn along with me, he's obviously not an expert or we'd be doing things differently already, I'm gonna put a little pressure on him and see how it goes. I'm going to insist on a lower dose administered every week, then switch to twice a week when I can do it myself.

 

[Junior.]

Inject every 3-4 days. Take about 5mg of liquid stane for e2. 5-10mg of liquid cia daily. You will be a walking hardon.

Twice a week is the plan as soon as possible, "stane" I have no idea what that is, and my fricken insurance doesn't cover daily Cialis, I don't know that I'd need it according to how I felt a couple weeks ago, not for boners anyways...I didn't need it then, I know it has other benefits, and I would like to take daily, the best I could do is eight 20mg tablets per month, then split them in half, and take one every other day, I wonder if that would be worth doing.

 

[Mprtz]

Twice a week is the plan as soon as possible, "stane" I have no idea what that is, and my fricken insurance doesn't cover daily Cialis, I don't know that I'd need it according to how I felt a couple weeks ago, not for boners anyways...I didn't need it then, I know it has other benefits, and I would like to take daily, the best I could do is eight 20mg tablets per month, then split them in half, and take one every other day, I wonder if that would be worth doing.

Soybean70 forgot this is the TRT forum where we focus on doctor prescribed stuff

 

[Junior.]

Is there any point in checking LH and FSH after being on TRT for seven weeks?

 

[Mprtz]

Is there any point in checking LH and FSH after being on TRT for seven weeks?

Not much, they should be low unless the meds are bogus, the patient is not complying, or is somehow a "non-responder" - all unlikely.

 

[Junior.]

Not much, they should be low unless the meds are bogus, the patient is not complying, or is somehow a "non-responder" - all unlikely.

Okay, I'll skip those.

 

[Junior.]

Had blood work done on the 14th, 4 days after a 300mg injection, TT was 903 and Estradiol was 50.2, I'm not sure if it was the sensitive test or not though, I don't believe that it was, it was supposed to be but it does not say that on the report, it says Estradiol - Roche ECLIA methodology (whatever the hell that means) the reference interval is 7.6 - 42.6. Doc agreed to lower my dose to 200mg and inject every week, this should help bring my Estradiol level down right? The plan is to do 200mg once per week, for 2-3 weeks and test again, at that point if my Estradiol is still high start an AI. I felt pretty good this last week after getting that 300mg dose, not great, but still pretty good, libido was back but I needed to take a Cialis to get wood, really good wood. I really like this doctor and he is coming around, albeit slowly. I'm calling my insurance co. tomorrow to see if they will cover my Test C for home injections, if so I'll be injecting twice a week.

 

[Alpin]

ridiculous!
It never ceases to amaze me of the incompetence in the medical community. 350 mg E2W's ?
You are probably reaching 2000 ng/dl and then trough in 300 ng/dl range with Estradiol going haywire!!!!
You feel like crap cause your hormones are still a mess!!!

 

[Junior.]

I agree, my trough was 519 though, tested right before my injection on the 10th, so.....14 days after my previous injection, I forgot to mention that, Lord knows what my peak was!

 

[Megatron28]

I would wait about 4 weeks on the new protocol before running blood work again.

 

[Alpin]

I agree, my trough was 519 though, tested right before my injection on the 10th, so.....14 days after my previous injection, I forgot to mention that, Lord knows what my peak was!

Your protocol is all wrong you should be starting at 50 mg E3D or E3.5D (two times per week)....
heck start with 40 mg twice a week....
I assure you will be better off than the mess you are in now.
This doc is putting your life at risk....
Elevating estradiol like that with concentrated T shots that are giving you wild levels and fluctuations.
Elevated Estradiol causes BPH, blood clots, High blood pressure, cholesterol issues, depression and anxiety in some people.

 

[synonymous]

Your protocol is all wrong you should be starting at 50 mg E3D or E3.5D (two times per week)....
heck start with 40 mg twice a week....
I assure you will be better off than the mess you are in now.
This doc is putting your life at risk....
Elevating estradiol like that with concentrated T shots that are giving you wild levels and fluctuations.
Elevated Estradiol causes BPH, blood clots, High blood pressure, cholesterol issues, depression and anxiety in some people.

I wish doctors knew the dangers of elevated E2 levels. Mine were 120ish for years. Got my Adex last week. Hopefully it'll kick in soon and I start to feel less anxiety and perhaps see my good cholesterol go up...

 

[Alpin]

I wish doctors knew the dangers of elevated E2 levels. Mine were 120ish for years. Got my Adex last week. Hopefully it'll kick in soon and I start to feel less anxiety and perhaps see my good cholesterol go up...

And if u voice this to a mainstream endo...I've seen them pause and give a glare like who the hell are you telling me what estradiol does. One endo I saw never even tested for it...nor saw it important in controlling. He would never touch an AI.

 

[Junior.]

Okay, I'm all set to start injecting at home, been getting 200mg injections every week for the last month at the doctor's office, I don't feel terrible, I just don't think I feel as good as I should, I keep comparing how I feel now to how I felt after my second injection a few months ago, which was really good, and I want that back!

I don't really know where to go from here, I get blood work done in two weeks, the plan is to stick to this protocol until then, and adjust accordingly depending on the results, my E2 was high on March 14th (TT was 903 and Estradiol was 50.2) that was four days after a 300mg injection, so I have no idea what to expect now. I have been looking for another doctor, but I'm having trouble finding one, nobody wants to tell me anything over the phone, they all want me to come and see the doctor before they'll give me any details as far as TRT. I donated blood on February 11th, hematocrit was 51, I'm basing that on my hemoglobin level of 17 (X3) will donate again on April 8th.

 

[Junior.]

Another thing, the symptoms of high E2 I'm having are low libido, it comes and goes, trouble with wood, maybe a little moody, nothing external like gyno, or acne, no tenderness or sensitivity in the nipps, I had a physical a week ago and had my GP check for signs of gyno, she said there were none at all. She is very interested in following my TRT, but does not want to treat me, she's not comfortable with it because of her lack of knowledge on the subject.

 

[Megatron28]

Okay, I'm all set to start injecting at home, been getting 200mg injections every week for the last month at the doctor's office, I don't feel terrible, I just don't think I feel as good as I should, I keep comparing how I feel now to how I felt after my second injection a few months ago, which was really good, and I want that back!

I don't really know where to go from here, I get blood work done in two weeks, the plan is to stick to this protocol until then, and adjust accordingly depending on the results, my E2 was high on March 14th (TT was 903 and Estradiol was 50.2) that was four days after a 300mg injection, so I have no idea what to expect now. I have been looking for another doctor, but I'm having trouble finding one, nobody wants to tell me anything over the phone, they all want me to come and see the doctor before they'll give me any details as far as TRT. I donated blood on February 11th, hematocrit was 51, I'm basing that on my hemoglobin level of 17 (X3) will donate again on April 8th.

Sounds like you have an E2 problem. At that high of a dose it is likely that you are getting a lot of aromatization. Is it correct that you are not using an AI?

Injecting twice a week instead of once a week would help.

Let us know where your Estradiol comes in at. Make sure your get the Sensitive assay performed.

 

[Junior.]

Sounds like you have an E2 problem. At that high of a dose it is likely that you are getting a lot of aromatization. Is it correct that you are not using an AI?

Injecting twice a week instead of once a week would help.

Let us know where your Estradiol comes in at. Make sure your get the Sensitive assay performed.

Correct, no AI as of yet, after labs if my E2 is still high (I'm sure it will be) I will insist on an AI, I brought it up after the last labs and he said he wanted me to wait until we checked levels again, because of the change in protocol. With my blood work coming up in two weeks, I thought I should wait until then before changing to injecting twice a week, that will give me six weeks of the same protocol before labs, after that I plan on injecting twice a week, or do you think I should start now?