Some doubts - Test E/Deca/Dbol

[eraexshoku]

Hello guys,
this is what I would to do but I have some doubts.

Winter Cycle 12 weeks (Testosterone Enanthate, Deca, Dbol, Proviron, Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), Clomid, Nolva)

1-4 250mg Testosterone Enanthate, 4-8 500mg and finally in 8-12 750mg
1-6 250mg Deca (Nandrolone Decanoate), 6-12 500mg
1-4 35mg ED Dianabol
2-12 50mg ED Proviron
5-12 500UI HCG

PCT (after 2 weeks from last test E/deca shots):
15-16 Clomid 100mg ED, 15-16 50mg ED
15-16 Nolvadex 40mg ED, 15-16 20mg ED

6'1
182.98lbs
12% BF
Age: 24
3 cycles experience (dbol; test prop and winny; test prop and oxandrolone)
3 years of lifting. - 2.5k calorie maint. will be eating 4k calories.

I have some doubts:
1) I know that testosterone should be dosed twice respect of the deca, but I want to start "light". It is useless to start in this way or should I already start to 500mg of testosterone and finish with 1000mg of it?
2) I read somewhere that the Proviron despite the good benefits it brings, "blocks" growth slightly (compared to a cycle without it), it's true? It would be so better to use an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) like Aromasin?
3) In addition there is a school of thought that says that if during the whole cycle is always used the Proviron and the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), there is no need to do the PCT at the end of the cycle? True or false?
4) It would be appropriate to include the Anadrol for the last 4 weeks of the cycle, in order to maximize the gains of the whole cycle?
Thanks in advance.

 

[Option#1]

Hello guys,
this is what I would to do but I have some doubts.

Winter Cycle 12 weeks (Testosterone Enanthate, Deca, Dbol, Proviron, Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), Clomid, Nolva)

1-4 250mg Testosterone Enanthate, 4-8 500mg and finally in 8-12 750mg
1-6 250mg Deca (Nandrolone Decanoate), 6-12 500mg
1-4 35mg ED Dianabol
2-12 50mg ED Proviron
5-12 500UI HCG

PCT (after 2 weeks from last test E/deca shots):
15-16 Clomid 100mg ED, 15-16 50mg ED
15-16 Nolvadex 40mg ED, 15-16 20mg ED

6'1
182.98lbs
12% BF
Age: 24
3 cycles experience (dbol; test prop and winny; test prop and oxandrolone)
3 years of lifting. - 2.5k calorie maint. will be eating 4k calories.

I have some doubts:
1) I know that testosterone should be dosed twice respect of the deca, but I want to start "light". It is useless to start in this way or should I already start to 500mg of testosterone and finish with 1000mg of it?
2) I read somewhere that the Proviron despite the good benefits it brings, "blocks" growth slightly (compared to a cycle without it), it's true? It would be so better to use an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) like Aromasin?
3) In addition there is a school of thought that says that if during the whole cycle is always used the Proviron and the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), there is no need to do the PCT at the end of the cycle? True or false?
4) It would be appropriate to include the Anadrol for the last 4 weeks of the cycle, in order to maximize the gains of the whole cycle?
Thanks in advance.

Here are a few quick comments on what you wrote.

1. Get blood work done BEFORE you start as a reference.
2. You should have an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) part of every Test Cycle. Monitor your E2 while on cycle with bloodwork.
3. If using Deca wait 3 weeks to start post cycle therapy (pct). A better solution is to stop Deca slightly early while continuing with Test and then doing PCT.
4. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is a great idea while on cycle but regardless of whether you use it or not PCT is a must.
5. Have some Prami or Caber on hand in case you need it especially if you get into the higher dosages with Deca, however the key is controlling your E2.

Hope this helps.

 

[eraexshoku]

Thank you, very kind

 

[Metalhead]

I would keep doses the same personally. Ive raised my doses and lowered my doses during cycle and the fluctuation effected me pretty hard so I will always keep mine the same unless I'm running short esters. Agree with above and use an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) the whole cycle until pct.

 

[P4P4_D]

Hello guys,
this is what I would to do but I have some doubts.

Winter Cycle 12 weeks (Testosterone Enanthate, Deca, Dbol, Proviron, Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), Clomid, Nolva)

1-4 250mg Testosterone Enanthate, 4-8 500mg and finally in 8-12 750mg
1-6 250mg Deca (Nandrolone Decanoate), 6-12 500mg
1-4 35mg ED Dianabol
2-12 50mg ED Proviron
5-12 500UI HCG

PCT (after 2 weeks from last test E/deca shots):
15-16 Clomid 100mg ED, 15-16 50mg ED
15-16 Nolvadex 40mg ED, 15-16 20mg ED

6'1
182.98lbs
12% BF
Age: 24
3 cycles experience (dbol; test prop and winny; test prop and oxandrolone)
3 years of lifting. - 2.5k calorie maint. will be eating 4k calories.

I have some doubts:
1) I know that testosterone should be dosed twice respect of the deca, but I want to start "light". It is useless to start in this way or should I already start to 500mg of testosterone and finish with 1000mg of it?
2) I read somewhere that the Proviron despite the good benefits it brings, "blocks" growth slightly (compared to a cycle without it), it's true? It would be so better to use an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) like Aromasin?
3) In addition there is a school of thought that says that if during the whole cycle is always used the Proviron and the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), there is no need to do the PCT at the end of the cycle? True or false?
4) It would be appropriate to include the Anadrol for the last 4 weeks of the cycle, in order to maximize the gains of the whole cycle?
Thanks in advance.

Extend cycle to 14 weeks
Stop deca at week 12 and like said above start pct 3 weeks after last injection

1: yes testosterone 2 x a week to keep blood levels as steady as possible, and I'd say just stick with one dose throughout the cycle.
2roviron won't do much, it will increase libido. You could actually use it during pct since it doesn't shut you down and it will help with sex drive. And always use an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) !
3: ALWAYS DO post cycle therapy (pct). once you introduce exogenous hormones your HPTA will shut down. hCG will help during cycle but always do a proper pct.
4:I wouldn't run the drol at the end save it for next cycle and add more dbol and the front of your cycle maybe 50mg for 6 weeks.

Anyone feel free to correct if I said anything wrong

 

[Option#1]

Thank you, very kind

You are quite welcome.

Here are a few more points for you.

6. Since you did Prop before I am assuming you are used to or do not have problems with pininng twice a week. As another member suggested it is a good idea to pin at least twice a week.

7. Going from 2.5k to 4k in calories is a huge jump. With the amount of Test you are going to do you can easily run T3, which will help with those extra calories. Most people think of T3 as a cutting drug but it is awesome also to take on a bulking cycle (in my opinion even more effective).

8. With the longer compounds that you are running it is not a bad idea to front load in my opinion. Double the dose on your 1st 2 weeks, and then keep your original planned dose for the rest of the cycle. This will make for a much more productive cycle.

9. I would drop all of the orals and focus on just Test and Deca.

 

[Maintenance Man]

Extend cycle to 14 weeks
Stop deca at week 12 and like said above start pct 3 weeks after last injection

1: yes testosterone 2 x a week to keep blood levels as steady as possible, and I'd say just stick with one dose throughout the cycle.
2roviron won't do much, it will increase libido. You could actually use it during pct since it doesn't shut you down and it will help with sex drive. And always use an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) !
3: ALWAYS DO post cycle therapy (pct). once you introduce exogenous hormones your HPTA will shut down. hCG will help during cycle but always do a proper pct.
4:I wouldn't run the drol at the end save it for next cycle and add more dbol and the front of your cycle maybe 50mg for 6 weeks.

Anyone feel free to correct if I said anything wrong

Proviron will shut u down. Not advisable during a PCT.

 

[P4P4_D]

Proviron will shut u down. Not advisable during a PCT.

Yeah I've read both things. But I have no experience so there you go..
Thanks maintenance man for the correction

 

[Maintenance Man]

Yeah I've read both things. But I have no experience so there you go..
Thanks maintenance man for the correction

Not a problem brother. It is considered sometimes so mild that is believed to not suppress natural test production. Much like people thinking Anavar (var) wont either. Not true tho

 

[eraexshoku]

Thanks everyone for the advices, much appreciate!

So, changing the cycle with your advices, came out like this:

Testosterone Enanthate: 1-7 500mg, 8-11 750mg, 11-14 1000mg.
Deca (Nandro Decanoate): 1-7 250mg, 8-12 500mg.
Dianabol: 1-4 or 1-6 50mg ED.
Proviron: 2-15 50 mg ED.
HCG: 5-14 500 IU.

PCT:
Nolvadex: 16-17 40mg ED, 18-10 20mg ED.
Clomid: 16-17 100mg ED, 18-10 50mg ED.

Regard the Aromatase inhibitor (AI), many person says to me that if you use Proviron ED during the cycle you no need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) like Aromasin etc etc but I'm not sure of this thing. Or I saw that someone use them together. (like 12.5mg ED of Aromasin from 1-14 and 50mg ED of Proviron from 5-14).

So if I use only Aromasin instead of Proviron, what is the proper dosage? 12.5mg ED for 16 weeks (until the beginning of PCT)?

Or what other kind of Aromatase inhibitor (AI) can I use?

Also what are the symptoms that make me to think to introduce the Caber?

Thanks so much.

 

[bigben66]

Yeah I've read both things. But I have no experience so there you go..
Thanks maintenance man for the correction

I'm curious as to why you would advise someone that they can do something - when you later openly admit you don't really know?

Surely if you don't know, you are best not offering advice at all?

 

[Option#1]

Thanks everyone for the advices, much appreciate!

So, changing the cycle with your advices, came out like this:

Testosterone Enanthate: 1-7 500mg, 8-11 750mg, 11-14 1000mg.
Deca (Nandro Decanoate): 1-7 250mg, 8-12 500mg.
Dianabol: 1-4 or 1-6 50mg ED.
Proviron: 2-15 50 mg ED.
HCG: 5-14 500 IU.

PCT:
Nolvadex: 16-17 40mg ED, 18-10 20mg ED.
Clomid: 16-17 100mg ED, 18-10 50mg ED.

Regard the Aromatase inhibitor (AI), many person says to me that if you use Proviron ED during the cycle you no need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) like Aromasin etc etc but I'm not sure of this thing. Or I saw that someone use them together. (like 12.5mg ED of Aromasin from 1-14 and 50mg ED of Proviron from 5-14).

So if I use only Aromasin instead of Proviron, what is the proper dosage? 12.5mg ED for 16 weeks (until the beginning of PCT)?

Or what other kind of Aromatase inhibitor (AI) can I use?

Also what are the symptoms that make me to think to introduce the Caber?

Thanks so much.

Okay so here's the deal. I still don't agree with your cycle but let's talk about more important things, which is your health. With that much Test you will develop high E2 levels for sure, couple that with Deca and you will develop prolactin and progesterone issues as well.

"You need an AI." ...........For example Exemestane...........you can read a lot of posts for suggested starting dosages but nobody can tell you the right dosage except you, and that is done by trial and error and confirmation via BLOOD WORK (get your E2 around 30-40).

Before you get symptoms ( such as lactation, gyno) you will be able to tell if you need Caber or Prami by looking at your blood work. But you should definitely have those compounds on hand in case you run into problems.

You should be starting Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) from week 1!!!!!!

I know this is stuff you probably don't want to hear because it complicates things and becomes a pain in the ass, but it is the right way to go. I hope this helps you out.

 

[eraexshoku]

Thank you Option#1,
but I do not understand why some people use Proviron and Aromasin in the same time, why? They use Proviron just for the libido? It seems strange.

Another simple questions is:
If I have Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) 1000 IU, can I do a shot every 2 weeks, insted of a 500 IU shot every week, it is the same thing or not? Thanks so much.

 

[Option#1]

Thank you Option#1,
but I do not understand why some people use Proviron and Aromasin in the same time, why? They use Proviron just for the libido? It seems strange.

Another simple questions is:
If I have Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) 1000 IU, can I do a shot every 2 weeks, insted of a 500 IU shot every week, it is the same thing or not? Thanks so much.

You are welcome.

Whether you use Proviron or not is up to the individual, you need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) to manage your E2 regardless, Proviron alone will not do it especially at the dosages you are looking at.

Different compounds work differently in different people. Some people take it because they believe it enhances other Anabolic's (through the binding of SHBG).

As far as Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) goes just get more of it and do it the right way. You should be taking shots at least twice a week preferably 3 times a week (250 IU). Not only will your balls thank you but you will receive other benefits. Remember you don't have LH receptors just in your balls.

 

[Maintenance Man]

Thank you Option#1,
but I do not understand why some people use Proviron and Aromasin in the same time, why? They use Proviron just for the libido? It seems strange.

Another simple questions is:
If I have Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) 1000 IU, can I do a shot every 2 weeks, insted of a 500 IU shot every week, it is the same thing or not? Thanks so much.

Think of it this way. Proviron isn't an Aromatase inhibitor (AI). Its not what it was designed for. Its a steroid simply. albeit a mild one, still a steroid. Here is a good start http://www.steroidology.com/forum/a...s/10-proviron-all-you-need-know-part-1-a.html

I would stick to the 250 IU, twice a week protocol. I hope you have more than 1000 IUs of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) as well. That wont get you but 2 weeks worth

 

[eraexshoku]

I make a trivial question: Would not it be more comfortable take Letrozole 2.5 mg/week to combat estrogen? How is it then that many people will insist on using Aromasin, Arimidex, Proviron? thanks

 

[Maintenance Man]

I make a trivial question: Would not it be more comfortable take Letrozole 2.5 mg/week to combat estrogen? How is it then that many people will insist on using Aromasin, Arimidex, Proviron? thanks

Letro is very harsh and potent. Unless you have extensive experience with the drug, I wouldn't recommend it. Aromasin and Arimidex are the best options for an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) to combat estrogen.

 

[P4P4_D]

I'm curious as to why you would advise someone that they can do something - when you later openly admit you don't really know?

Surely if you don't know, you are best not offering advice at all?

I've read studies showinf proviron did not have an impact on HPTA. Just recently read that some do. So it kibd of unclear. Also have seen post where people use it for post cycle therapy (pct). Thats why.
But like my post said anyone can correct me if I'm wrong. Which MM did.

 

[halfwit]

Thanks everyone for the advices, much appreciate!

So, changing the cycle with your advices, came out like this:

Testosterone Enanthate: 1-7 500mg, 8-11 750mg, 11-14 1000mg.
Deca (Nandro Decanoate): 1-7 250mg, 8-12 500mg.
Dianabol: 1-4 or 1-6 50mg ED.
Proviron: 2-15 50 mg ED.
HCG: 5-14 500 IU.

PCT:
Nolvadex: 16-17 40mg ED, 18-10 20mg ED.
Clomid: 16-17 100mg ED, 18-10 50mg ED.

Regard the Aromatase inhibitor (AI), many person says to me that if you use Proviron ED during the cycle you no need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) like Aromasin etc etc but I'm not sure of this thing. Or I saw that someone use them together. (like 12.5mg ED of Aromasin from 1-14 and 50mg ED of Proviron from 5-14).

So if I use only Aromasin instead of Proviron, what is the proper dosage? 12.5mg ED for 16 weeks (until the beginning of PCT)?

Or what other kind of Aromatase inhibitor (AI) can I use?

Also what are the symptoms that make me to think to introduce the Caber?

Thanks so much.

Given your stats and cycle history, I'd stick with EITHER 500 or 750mg of test a week. Pyramiding doses up and down is very old school and not necessary. In fact, it's better for your body to receive a steady level of hormones on a consistent basis. Spikes in testosterone will cause a spike in estradiol, which makes it that much harder to control. This goes for the deca as well. ESPECIALLY given the long ester half-life, I'd start at 500mg/wk and leave it there. Honestly, 12 weeks is a hair shorter than I would personally run deca, but it won't ruin your cycle by any means to have it so short.

Proviron is FANTASTIC, but not at all for the reasons you've been led to believe. It reduces SHBG, which will increase your free testosterone - the active part of the hormone that your body will use to build muscle. It also (being the oral form of masteron) will cause some hardening and drying of your tissues, giving you a dry look. It's not nearly as powerful as the injected form, but does have many benefits; especially with libido. I don't know why it was dubbed an anti-estrogen as while it does bind to the receptor with a higher affinity than estrogen, it doesn't prevent any additional estrogen from being made by your aromatase enzymes. You need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) for that purpose. I would recommend you pick up arimidex and run it at .25mg EOD and increase it to .5mg EOD if you notice any swelling in your face/feet/hands or develop itchy nipples. Getting a blood test at 4-6 weeks into your cycle will confirm if you're running the proper dose of adex.

If you choose to run aromasin (better, but far more expensive AI), I would start at 25mg ED (some say 12.5mg, but I think at that dose 25mg is needed) and bring it up to 37.5mg ED if you see the symptoms above. Of course a blood test, which can be ordered online for fifty bucks will confirm this as well.

Caber/Prami should be run (imo) from the start of your cycle as they will help to keep your prolactin levels nice and low from the beginning, not after you develop problems. They have many benefits on top of keeping prolactin/progesterone sides at bay such as a decreased refractory period after sex (able to get it on right after you finish, or shortly after for us older guys ), a general better sense of well-being, and I've recently learned that prami can increase your natural growth hormone production by several hundred percent. You don't want to experience "deca dick" as pushing rope on your girl is definitely no fun for anybody involved. Of course, estrogen management is king here - but it does help as prolactin can elevate independently from estradiol. Just not as quickly.

My .02c

 

[eraexshoku]

Halfwit thanks so much for your great reply.

So the cycle should be like this:

Testosterone Enanthate: 1-7 500mg, 8-14 750mg. (I will up the Test to 750mg because Deca from the 8th week will be 500mg)
Deca (Nandro Decanoate): 1-7 250mg, 8-12 500mg. (I have only 16 vials so can not do the whole cycle to 500mg/w)
Dianabol: 1-4 or 1-6 50mg ED.
Proviron: 2-15 50 mg ED. (it would not better to lower it to 25mg ED? If I have already Aromasin, Proviron it is necessary or can I delete it?)
Aromasin: 2-15 25mg ED or 37.5mg ED if necessary
HCG: 5-14 500 IU.
Caber: 0.5mg week (one 0.5 tabs cut in two half, taking one (half) Monday & Thursday each week. It's right?)

PCT:
Nolvadex: 16-17 40mg ED, 18-10 20mg ED.
Clomid: 16-17 100mg ED, 18-10 50mg ED.

I've read studies showinf proviron did not have an impact on HPTA. Just recently read that some do. So it kibd of unclear. Also have seen post where people use it for pct. Thats why.
But like my post said anyone can correct me if I'm wrong. Which MM did.

Yes, I also read somewhere that Proviron has no negative impact on HTPA up to 150mg/day. So, I think that 50mg/day does not create any problem. But however, I would never use it in PCT.