What Is Your Optimal Range?

[novaman]

I've been on TRT since mid summer 2014 and I'm still trying to find what works best for me. The clinic I'm using is taking the approach of starting big and go from there.

I've been on 200 mg Test Cyp split in 2 doses per week, 500 IU Hcg split in 2 doses per week, and 1 mg Anastrozole split in 2 doses per week. In the first several months on this protocol my serum testosterone always came in at around 1000 (ref 349-1197 ng/dL) when the blood was drawn 24-72 hours after injection. But this last time it came in at 1450, which seems high to me. (this was not a Dr requested test, this was on my own). Here's the thing- I feel great! My energy is good my libido is good, my workouts are good, and my body composition changes are good. So is this a dangerous place to be? Where are most guys finding there sweet spot?

 

[Mprtz]

I started at the same dose and felt the same way, but after 2 years it has kind of caught up with me and I've had to reduce my dose. I'm not sure yet where 120mg per week is putting me, but I already don't feel as good as I did on 160 or 200. Might be partly psychological.

 

[novaman]

I started at the same dose and felt the same way, but after 2 years it has kind of caught up with me and I've had to reduce my dose. I'm not sure yet where 120mg per week is putting me, but I already don't feel as good as I did on 160 or 200. Might be partly psychological.

How did it catch up with you ? Hematocrit ? Estradiol levels?

 

[Mprtz]

I had to donate frequently to keep hematocrit in range, which eventually exhausted my body's iron stores. I started having an irregular heartbeat which I believe was due to my low iron levels. Hematocrit was 53. I couldn't afford to donate blood, and couldn't afford not to.

 

[Alpin]

I started at the same dose and felt the same way, but after 2 years it has kind of caught up with me and I've had to reduce my dose. I'm not sure yet where 120mg per week is putting me, but I already don't feel as good as I did on 160 or 200. Might be partly psychological.

Same here

 

[Jacob*]

I started at the same dose and felt the same way, but after 2 years it has kind of caught up with me and I've had to reduce my dose.

Presently im not on TRT but thinking about it ....then whats the point to go on TRT if im not gonna feel good after a couple of years?

 

[cybrsage]

Presently im not on TRT but thinking about it ....then whats the point to go on TRT if im not gonna feel good after a couple of years?

One thing is the two years you feel great - do not poo poo how long two years actually is. Remember, not feeling "as good" is not the same as felling the same as before starting TRT. Most people who are on TRT would never go back to a life without it at all.

 

[halfwit]

Presently im not on TRT but thinking about it ....then whats the point to go on TRT if im not gonna feel good after a couple of years?

I'm going on 6 years (I think? Oiiiiiiiii, I really need to think about that rofl), and life keeps getting better and better. I like to keep things over 1k ng/dL, but I do also manage my estradiol and hematocrit with some serious intent.

I can't speak for the other guys, but I personally have zero issues after many years on TRT, and really appreciate the changes it has brought to my life.

My .02c

 

[Jacob*]

Excellent.

 

[Mprtz]

I'm going on 6 years (I think? Oiiiiiiiii, I really need to think about that rofl), and life keeps getting better and better. I like to keep things over 1k ng/dL, but I do also manage my estradiol and hematocrit with some serious intent.

I can't speak for the other guys, but I personally have zero issues after many years on TRT, and really appreciate the changes it has brought to my life.

My .02c

Well I think you've got some things figured out that others of us are still learning... Like doing apheresis exclusively.

 

[halfwit]

Well I think you've got some things figured out that others of us are still learning... Like doing apheresis exclusively.

Oh, I wasn't trying to down play your experiences; I just wanted to add in a positive perspective as I'd hate someone to miss such an opportunity. Nothing more.

 

[Mprtz]

Oh, I wasn't trying to down play your experiences; I just wanted to add in a positive perspective as I'd hate someone to miss such an opportunity. Nothing more.

I didn't take it that way at all... I'm just genuinely in awe of how well you have this stuff figured out and how much I've learned from you. The recent problems I've had could probably have been prevented if I'd followed your example more closely.

You told me two years ago that you only did platelet donations and that you didn't have a problem with iron loss. I just didn't put two and two together.

 

[novaman]

I didn't take it that way at all... I'm just genuinely in awe of how well you have this stuff figured out and how much I've learned from you. The recent problems I've had could probably have been prevented if I'd followed your example more closely.

You told me two years ago that you only did platelet donations and that you didn't have a problem with iron loss. I just didn't put two and two together.

Can someone elaborate? I've been donating every 2 months. my Hematocrit was around 47 before I started TRT and last week is was 49 just 2 weeks after I had given blood. I am a bit concerned that things are sitting near the upper end of the range already. My doc gave me a script to donate every month. Anyone doing this?

 

[halfwit]

Can someone elaborate? I've been donating every 2 months. my Hematocrit was around 47 before I started TRT and last week is was 49 just 2 weeks after I had given blood. I am a bit concerned that things are sitting near the upper end of the range already. My doc gave me a script to donate every month. Anyone doing this?

I participate in platelet apheresis every 2-3 weeks which is similar to donating blood, except they connect you to a machine that separates the platelets from your blood and returns the plasma/RBCs to you. As the machines are designed to salvage platelets, and not red blood cells, a portion of them are destroyed in the process. This lowers hematocrit, is ferritin sparing, and can be done weekly if needed.

The only real drawback is that the process can take up to two hours (I'm usually done in an hour or so), but many red cross locations have DVDs you can watch while donating.

 

[cybrsage]

I participate in platelet apheresis every 2-3 weeks which is similar to donating blood, except they connect you to a machine that separates the platelets from your blood and returns the plasma/RBCs to you. As the machines are designed to salvage platelets, and not red blood cells, a portion of them are destroyed in the process. This lowers hematocrit, is ferritin sparing, and can be done weekly if needed.

The only real drawback is that the process can take up to two hours (I'm usually done in an hour or so), but many red cross locations have DVDs you can watch while donating.

Interesting, do you do both platelets and whole blood, or just platelets?

 

[halfwit]

Interesting, do you do both platelets and whole blood, or just platelets?

Just platelets. Whole blood is possible, but the FDA has a limit on how much blood volume can be given per year. As I do happen to climb pretty quickly with HCT, I prefer to save my volume for apheresis as it lowers my HCT by 3-6% per donation, and WB is 2-3% for me personally.

 

[Mprtz]

The problem with frequent whole blood donation is that you lose about 200mg of iron each time. This can be difficult if not impossible to compensate for with dietary iron intake. Once your iron levels are low, the climb in hct seems to slow down, but it is possible to experience symptoms from low iron.

With platelet apheresis, you don't lose much blood, but the process of pumping blood through the apparatus causes some red blood cells to rupture. This is a natural process that goes on all the time, the apheresis process just speeds it up. When the red blood cells rupture, their contents are released into the bloodstream where the iron is (at least partially) re-absorbed by the liver.

So your HCT drops, but you don't lose all that iron.

How much all this (iron loss) is a problem probably varies from person to person, but I think it's worthwhile to test your ferritin levels if you are donating blood frequently so you can see the effect it's having.

 

[novaman]

I participate in platelet apheresis every 2-3 weeks which is similar to donating blood, except they connect you to a machine that separates the platelets from your blood and returns the plasma/RBCs to you. As the machines are designed to salvage platelets, and not red blood cells, a portion of them are destroyed in the process. This lowers hematocrit, is ferritin sparing, and can be done weekly if needed.

The only real drawback is that the process can take up to two hours (I'm usually done in an hour or so), but many red cross locations have DVDs you can watch while donating.

Thanks- do you need a script for this to do it more frequently than once every 2 months?

 

[novaman]

Thanks- do you need a script for this to do it more frequently than once every 2 months?

Nevermind. I just looked it up and you can do this up to 24 times a year. This is nice because not only is it beneficial to those of us on TRT, but it is also helping to save a life at the same time

 

[novaman]

I'm going on 6 years (I think? Oiiiiiiiii, I really need to think about that rofl), and life keeps getting better and better. I like to keep things over 1k ng/dL, but I do also manage my estradiol and hematocrit with some serious intent.

I can't speak for the other guys, but I personally have zero issues after many years on TRT, and really appreciate the changes it has brought to my life.

My .02c

Is that 1000 ng/dL your peak or trough?