16 weeker: tbol, e, & eq... Thoughts?

4rings2snails

New member
2nd cycle:

Week 1-4 50mg tbol
Week 1-16 600 or 800mg Eq?
Week 1-16 600mg Test E
Week 12-16 HCG

37, 5'10", 175lbs, 12% BF

First cycle was straight E @ 600mg/week for 9 weeks. Put on 25lbs. It was awesome, but 2 months PC and I've lost 75% of my gains. So I'm hoping this map will get me to where I want to be.

I'd like to go with test p but I dont want to be a pin cushion for 16 weeks...

Any critiques?
 
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You wouldn't be running test p for 16wks anyway. Another thing, if you lost 75% of what you gained it indicates a problem with your diet and/or training not the gear.
 
Definitely agree, nothing wrong with the cycle but as doc mentioned you have issues with your diet / training if you lost that much from your first cycle. If you don't get that figured out before running another cycle its going to be a complete waste of money and will yield the same results as your first cycle.

I would highly recommend getting on with someone like 3J to help control your diet so your not throwing money out the window for a couple of pounds when you could maximize your progress.

If you finish a cycle at 190lbs you gotta get up every single day and eat like a 190 lber not like a 180lber otherwise your gonna be a 180lber. Keep your diet clean and not only during cycle make it a lifelong routine
 
Thanks guys. Appreciate the input greatly.

Im familiar with 3J. He helped me cut last year without anything other than food. So I'll look into him helping me out in this cycle.

The reason I stopped at the end of week 9 on my first cycle was because I hadn't gained any weight for a solid 15 days and I was so tired of the water retention irrespective of my EOD aro. So i was told that i was GTG and to stop and wait my 2 weeks for PCT.

And FWIW, during that 2 week waiting period I didn't do any HCG. I was told that was a bad idea to have not done the HCG.

I maintained my diet though essentially after cycle. But there's no way i'm going to always be able to eat 4k-4.5k everyday forever. Does this mean that I'm genetically predisposed to not being able to maintain much of the weight I put on?

And good point on the test P @ 16 weeks Doc. How long would be a good duration to run test P considering my stats and that this is my second cycle?

And Doc, I never alluded to the gear being bunk... It worked good and fast even though it was E. By week 2 I looked like a different person and the cat was out of the bag with my friends at the gym lol. Hulk BTW...
 
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1) I did a carb cycle bulk with 3J last year and got great results too. If you stopped gaining weight for 15days the blame is the diet. You probably kept your diet static but with increased weight and lbm, your TDEE increases and you're forced to eat more.

2) if you're running aromasin as your Aromatase inhibitor (AI) you will need to do ED dosing not EOD. You didn't mention an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) in OP but you will need one.

3) yes HCG mimics the LH signal in the testes while bypassing the pituitary. It will get your tastes producing small amounts of endogenous testosterone, enough so they won't shrink. It's better to run HCG during your cycle from day 1 at 250ius 2x/wk and stop 4days before post cycle therapy (pct).

4) your genetic predisposition has little to do with this, it's your lack of eating. If you gain weight to the point of requiring 4500calories, you need to eat that much to maintain weight otherwise you'll lose weight obviously. I myself am on a test e cycle at the moment. I'm 5'10" @ 210lbs currently and have a demanding job and between 3J and I we figured I needed 4500 cals just to keep gaining. I know what you mean, it's tough to eat that but if you want the mass you have to do it. There's no way around that fact. Now fat doesn't require energy per se bc it's stored energy so when you cut back down and reduce fat your TDEE should drop somewhat along with it.

5) I believe test p should be ran around 8wks, maybe 10the longest but generally around 8wks bc it's a short acting ester. An option would be to do a 4-5wk prop kick start while still pinning enanthate so you'll get prop kicking in almost immediately then when you stop it the enanthate will take over. EQ has a very long half life so you will want to drop it before you finish with test. Maybe 2wks before stopping test.

6) I wasn't trying to say you said the gear was bunk but the way you worded your OP "so I'm hoping this map will get me to where I want to be" made it seem like you expect vastly different results. The truth is what you keep is dependent on diet, training and post cycle therapy (pct) not the gear itself. That's what I meant.

Also if you looked very different at the end of wk 2 on a test e only cycle, your Aromatase inhibitor (AI) dose was not enough. That's water weight that you gained that early not muscle. What Aromatase inhibitor (AI) did you use and what kind of dosing?
 
Doc! Reps for the detailed education bro! Thanks a ton!

As for the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) I ran in my first cycle, I went with aromadex 12.5mg EOD...then when the nips felt weird I went ED for the last 6 weeks of the cycle.

And for PCT I went with nolva two weeks PC for 30 days FWIW... Broke out on my back like a mo-fo. So bad that I'm just now able to wear a damn tank.

Side note: What about tbol for weeks 1-4? How's that sound to you at 10mgs/5x/day. As for the rest of my cycle, you have me rethinking it. So I'm not too sure how I'm going to go about it. But I am taking all that you explained highly into account.
 
I haven't looked into tool much so ill save the comments for someone better suited than I but if your results were good (for 9wks) and you cut the cycle short on #1, I would look into a full 12-14wk test E cycle, maybe an 8wk test prop cycle, and if so inclined could add an oral into the beginning or end. Pick one suited to your goals though. Make sure to get bloodwork, take liv52 or NAC for liver protection (with an oral especially but I take NAC all the time now), and let it run its full course.

PCT do Nolva 40/40/20/20 AND clomid 50/50/25/25. The breakouts on your back are oat likely the fluctuation in your hormone levels. Get mid cycle bloods to verify where estrogen and other hormone values are.

Are you sure you did arimidex for AI? Arimidex is dosed in .25mg/.5mg and comes in max 1mg tabs I believe. 12.5mg of arimidex is CRAZY. you either took arimidex at a much much lower dose or maybe you took AROMASIN?? Aromasin is dosed at 12.5mg. If you did 12.5eod of AROMASIN and got itchy nips, do it ED to begin with and consider bumping it up to 25mg ED if your mid cycle blood work shows high E2.
 
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