31 y/o male 10 years on & off testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) / hypogonadism

[Sketch2000]

I just wanted to weigh in on Clomid.

I too was prescribed Clomid 25mg every day. Did some blood work and got good T numbers (750-800) but felt somewhat crappy.

Felt better than nothing but nowhere near as good with T cypionate.

I have not done blood work for a while but I can tell you I feel much better (still not as good as T) now that I have dropped the dosage way down. I am currently doing 12.5mg every third day. ED and libido is better and do not feel so depressed.

Good luck and maybe dropping the dose may help you. It helped me.

Did you go straight from the 25mg per day to 12.5 mg every third day?

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Hey guys.

Well, good and bad news I guess.

NO Injectable T....

My Testosterone results have come back with a significant increase, so my Dr. it hesitant to throw something else in the mix if this is "working". I hate to say it but I agree with her....as much as I'd like and WANT injectable T. I'll have to wait and drive my levels down. I can't expect her (or any other Dr.) to prescribe it when what I'm taking is working.

Anyway...I had printed out certain postings from the internet regarding Clomid usage and also printed out some of the postings on certain forums about guys taking the same or similar dosage to me or in the studies (25mg or 50mg) but starting to feel "shitty" (less libido and ED AGAIN!!) This is all despite the increase in testosterone levels.

So I told her it can't be a coincidence I'm not feeling as good as I did when I started (if others have had a similar problem). So the solution - or what others have done is lower there Clomid down to 3 times a week and they tend to "feel" better.

(UJMRYDER - Your the 3rd person I've seen on this forum whos had the same problem with Clomid. While it increased your T levels you started to feel a lack of libido and ED like I am but by lowering it you've started to feel better. Your the 3rd person that's had better results with a lower dosage).

So I told her how I felt when I started - first 3 weeks were great. Since then, I've started to feel like I did prior to usage - no libido, or lack thereof.

So we reached an agreement to lower my dosage to 25mg 3 x a week and I can go even lower. It all depends on how I feel. If I begin to feel like I did when I started, then we know it could have been the medication causing the problems with the libido and ED....

The next part is that I need to re-test my labs (Test specifically) one month into lowering the dosage so we can see the difference.

So I skipped my dosage today. Will take 25mg tomorrow and then resume 25mg on M,W,F (I'm debating on whether to go even lower than that. Most people have dropped there dosage to 12.5mg).

We then discussed if you can use this long term. Studies usually range up to 2 years or slightly more.

But if i wean myself off and the problem continues I'm just going to ask for injectable and HCG.

I will likely be overseas than and can proceed with getting my levels low enough if that's what it takes because like I told my Doc yesterday. All this shit about coming off and getting tested and this and that is a pain in the ass.

If I feel good when I lower my dose I'll take this shit forever....lol...

Neway. Here are my lab results -

PRIOR TO CLOMID -

LAST YEAR -

TOTAL TESTOSTERONE 314 (300-1080)
SHBG 17 (11-80)
FREE TESTOSTERONE 76 (47-244)
TESTESTERONE, PERCENTAGE FREE 2.4 (1.6-2.9)

3 WEEKS PRIOR TO CLOMID START

TOTAL TESTORONE 333 (280-800)

* ALL OTHER LABS FINE (COMP METABOLIC PANEL, LIPID PANEL, CBC W/ DIFFERENTIAL, HEMOGLOBIN, ETC.)

1 MONTH AFTER STARTING CLOMID 25MG PER DAY

TOTAL TESTOSTERONE 588 (280-800)

* TOTAL T ALMOST DOUBLED

6 WEEKS AFTER STARTING CLOMID 25MG PER DAY

TOTAL TESTOSTERONE 660 (300-1080)
SHBG 22 (11-80)
FREE TESTOSTERONE 157 (47-244)
TESTOSTERONE, PERCENTAGE FREE 2.4 (1.6-2.9)

* ALL OTHER LABS - COMPREHENSIVE METABOLIC PANEL, CBC W/ DIFFERENTIAL, TSH FINE


These labs indicate that I've had an increase of almost double what I had before starting Clomid.
Before I started (and for the last 12 miserable years) I've had Testosterone in the 300's (low normal) or even lower (which is low). I am now in the mid-range.

660 Total T on a Range from 300-1080 is about mid.
157 Free T on a Range from 47-244 is almost 3/4.

Free - being the Test that really matters. But Total T needs a boost also.

So...to make a long story short. The treatment has worked in increasing my Testosterone levels both free and total.

The only problem now being -

a) Keeping them there or higher (mid range is good - but not really acceptable. I'd like to be in the upper range)

b) Getting my libido back by lowering the Clomid dosage and hoping this doesn't intefere with my T levels.

Plan -

a) Lower the Clomid dosage

b) Re-do labs in one month


Thanks guys. Let me know if you have any thoughts.
I threw out the injectable T during our conversation but was shot down pretty quick. I could tell it wasn't going to go anywhere given my treatment is working but rest assured if this doesn't pan out and I've already been approved for AndroGel which I know only works for a short period of time (but is better than this) I'll drive my levels down if necessary to get it.

Sketch-----

I would lower the Clomid dosage. It is in the way of your libido although it is stimulating testosterone production and has been proven to work. Here are the 2 problems with it though. BTW I have seen guys use as little as 13mg ED and get a decent bump in TT, this should help to reduce Clomid sides.

#1 Clomid can act like an estrogen or an anti estrogen, depending on the tissue it is in. It acts like an estrogen at the pituitary priming it for GNRH reception (supposedly). This is why it works better the Nolva. One thing is for sure, most guys get estrogen like sides on clomid.


#2 Clomid tends to stop working as soon as you stop using it and since you didn't feel great on it...........welll

If it were me I would have started you on Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) first and then into the clomid and hope it holds. Things like diet, exercising and not drinking would all be things that are huge in wether you would be able to maintain those numbers after coming off.

 

[TheChosenOne]

I don't know how you can stand taking clomid. That crap made me feel like killing myself. I litteraly felt like a little bitch. I will never take that crap again. It supposedly makes you feel like a girl does when she's on the rag. From my experience I believe it.

If you want to get off the clomid and back on testosterone cream, just tell the doc it's causing you severe depression. I'm pretty sure that's a well documented side effect of clomid. Then, after you've been on the cream for a week or two, tell her that that crap has an awful smell and you can't stand it. Also, tell her that you are afraid of it rubbing off on your girlfriend. At this point her only option would be to prescribe you injectable T. Testosterone is testosterone whether it's a transdermal cream or an injectable oil. It's actually the same thing so she shouldn't have a problem giving it to you if she already prescribed you the cream.

 

[Sketch2000]

Thanks for the responses.

I've lowered my dosage to 25mg EOD and have had a SIGNIFICANT increase in my libido. I will re-test free/total test in one month post this change (I made this change after seeing the doc) and see how my numbers are.

After that I will consider lowering it even more and re-test.

Chris

 

[Sketch2000]

I think I may be experiencing some mild depression from the Clomid. Not sure if its a documented side effect, but I know that my Dr. is opposed to giving me injectable. But I understand your plan of action. The gel isn't an issue as I've had it before. If I end up with problems with the gel then the only option would be injectable T.

Anyway, as instructed I lowered the dosage to 25 mg EOD and re-tested exactly one month post. My levels were good. Just as good as they were with the initial blood work (see above)


Total Testosterone (Serum) - 623 (348-1197)
Free Testosterone (Direct) 18.2 (8.7 - 25.1)

* So I'm basically within the upper half range of Total T which is where I was when I tested a month after starting the Clomid so it is definitely working. My libido is good...on and off. My Dr. and I also suspect that Clomid causing depression could also cause a problem with your libido and that is the reason why I plan to titrate further. To 12.5 EOD. But unfortunately I can't do that now as I can't afford the blood work to confirm 4 weeks after lowering to that. So what I plan to do is stay on my current course for another month or so (25 EOD) then go to the 12.5 EOD and at that time I'll be able to afford the blood work to ensure my levels are still stable. Long term goal is then to titrate off of this sh-- and 4-6 weeks post ending to check my TEST levels.

Chris