32 y/o and Dr just prescribed Androgel 1.62

[Megatron28]

I hear you. I'm trying to decide if I should be embarrassed to talk about this with anyone or not. Part of me says screw it, nothing I did led to this so why should I be embarrassed. The other part of me feels like less of a man. No way I could keep it from my wife though. Especially when testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is likely a lifelong commitment.

I told my wife right away. What kind of a marriage is it if you can't tell your wife.

I only have three friends that know. Two are doctors. The other is on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) himself. I must say though, it is nice to talk to a real person once in a while. Another guy that can understand. I think that's why we all hang out here. It is hard to understand Low T fully if you haven't experienced. Kind of like you have to be drowning to truly appreciate oxygen.

 

[Alpin]

Just reading over this thread has me asking questions....
why is this doc or endo not doing a complete lookover?
Guy is 32...could have a pituitary issue...and she just takes out the script pad and writes for Androgel?
No LH, FSH, TSH blood tests levels?
He's really low though...he needs treatment quickly.
She has you on 4 squirts a day of Androgel?
What's this gonna cost you each month bro?

 

[Alpin]

Why on Earth would you be embarrassed about testosterone replacement therapy (TRT)? Do you think diabetics get all shy because they have to inject insulin? I freely tell folks I inject testosterone as my nuts don't work anymore. Then again, I do realize I'm a few years older than you are Apollon, so it could be that I just am at that age where I honestly don't care what others think anymore.

Trying to hide something this big from your spouse would be even sillier. Trust me, she'll know. There's a HUGE difference from, "Hmm. I guess we haven't had sex in awhile, you want to maybe get it on later tonight honey?" and "CLEAR YOUR SCHEDULE BABE, DADDY'S READY FOR SOME ACTION!"

Why you ask?
That family doc I went to rolled his eyes when hearing about TRT...especially in young guys.
Makes you feel like a Eunich the way he talks to you.
In Europe I was running low on T vial as I had to possibly stay over...went into local hospital(big mistake)
There was a room where docs wrote scripts...everyone was in a lineup getting scripts written by docs when it came my turn...female doc(not that it matters) looked at me....took a long pause and asked her colleague ("we don't write scripts for hormones here do we"?) she told me to go into next room where there was another doc who does....he looked at me and says: "you workout"? I say: "what does it matter...my body is low in it"....he says: "I don't think so, you must have another problem"....what did he mean by that?
takes out his book on FDA pharmaceuticals and says: "what is this for"? told him: "I feel down, like a depressed state while I don't take it"
He says: "according to this book...the one your doctors go by in the States...we don't give Testosterone to depressed people"...
I say: "what am I going to do"? he says: "I don't know"!!!!
I wait till I go back home I ask him....he says: "probably"...
I walked out of there and he made me feel like shit...
This is the only bad thing with TRT...you are dependent and at the mercy of doctors....that can shut you down at their own will.

 

[Spunkey71]

I hear you. I'm trying to decide if I should be embarrassed to talk about this with anyone or not. Part of me says screw it, nothing I did led to this so why should I be embarrassed. The other part of me feels like less of a man. No way I could keep it from my wife though. Especially when testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is likely a lifelong commitment.

I don't understand the being embarrassed about testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). I don't have the energy to be embarrassed anymore, I went to college a little later in in life but graduated at 29 years of age and was jacked, 205 pounds with maybe 10% bf at 5'7" and was always an athlete. Over the last 12 years I lost every glimpse of my old self, gained 200 pounds, got divorced and was unemployed for a while after a job layoff and had to move in with my parents for 6 months until I could afford my own place again. With all the failure I had in such a short period of time I always kept my head high and have never felt sorry for myself and have keep moving forward and have overcome all those failures. If I can endure all of that why in the hell would I be embarrassed about a medical condition that was of no fault of my own. The more I learn about low T the more I realize many of the things in my life that I have been embarrassed and ashamed about are most likely a result of my low T.

 

[Megatron28]

Just reading over this thread has me asking questions....
why is this doc or endo not doing a complete lookover?
Guy is 32...could have a pituitary issue...and she just takes out the script pad and writes for Androgel?
No LH, FSH, TSH blood tests levels?
He's really low though...he needs treatment quickly.
She has you on 4 squirts a day of Androgel?
What's this gonna cost you each month bro?

Just relax. Don't freak the guy out. It is normal for your first visit when you complain of Low T symptoms to just check Total Test. If it comes back low, THEN you reconfirm the results and run other labs like LH, FSH, Prolactin, Thyroid, etc.

 

[Megatron28]

Why you ask?
That family doc I went to rolled his eyes when hearing about TRT...especially in young guys.
Makes you feel like a Eunich the way he talks to you.
In Europe I was running low on T vial as I had to possibly stay over...went into local hospital(big mistake)
There was a room where docs wrote scripts...everyone was in a lineup getting scripts written by docs when it came my turn...female doc(not that it matters) looked at me....took a long pause and asked her colleague ("we don't write scripts for hormones here do we"?) she told me to go into next room where there was another doc who does....he looked at me and says: "you workout"? I say: "what does it matter...my body is low in it"....he says: "I don't think so, you must have another problem"....what did he mean by that?
takes out his book on FDA pharmaceuticals and says: "what is this for"? told him: "I feel down, like a depressed state while I don't take it"
He says: "according to this book...the one your doctors go by in the States...we don't give Testosterone to depressed people"...
I say: "what am I going to do"? he says: "I don't know"!!!!
I wait till I go back home I ask him....he says: "probably"...
I walked out of there and he made me feel like shit...
This is the only bad thing with TRT...you are dependent and at the mercy of doctors....that can shut you down at their own will.

Yes, we know you have had the worst doctors in the world and they have ledpft quite an impression on you. I have hope that you someday find a good doctor up there in Canada.

 

[Brunodk]

Just reading over this thread has me asking questions....
why is this doc or endo not doing a complete lookover?
Guy is 32...could have a pituitary issue...and she just takes out the script pad and writes for Androgel?
No LH, FSH, TSH blood tests levels?
He's really low though...he needs treatment quickly.
She has you on 4 squirts a day of Androgel?
What's this gonna cost you each month bro?

That's been a concern of mine from the beginning. Shouldn't we be trying to figure out WHY I have such low t and not just treat the symptoms (poorly with Androgel). And the script is only for 2 pumps daily to start. But again, I won't start til I know more and make sure it won't hurt me. I'm not even sure of the cost yet because I haven't been able to fill the prescription until second labs confirm low t.

 

[halfwit]

Why you ask?
That family doc I went to rolled his eyes when hearing about TRT...especially in young guys.
Makes you feel like a Eunich the way he talks to you.
In Europe I was running low on T vial as I had to possibly stay over...went into local hospital(big mistake)
There was a room where docs wrote scripts...everyone was in a lineup getting scripts written by docs when it came my turn...female doc(not that it matters) looked at me....took a long pause and asked her colleague ("we don't write scripts for hormones here do we"?) she told me to go into next room where there was another doc who does....he looked at me and says: "you workout"? I say: "what does it matter...my body is low in it"....he says: "I don't think so, you must have another problem"....what did he mean by that?
takes out his book on FDA pharmaceuticals and says: "what is this for"? told him: "I feel down, like a depressed state while I don't take it"
He says: "according to this book...the one your doctors go by in the States...we don't give Testosterone to depressed people"...
I say: "what am I going to do"? he says: "I don't know"!!!!
I wait till I go back home I ask him....he says: "probably"...
I walked out of there and he made me feel like shit...
This is the only bad thing with TRT...you are dependent and at the mercy of doctors....that can shut you down at their own will.

You had a series of bad experiences, which by no means should change your outlook on life. So what if a doctor looks down on you for testosterone replacement therapy (TRT)? We both know the guy is a nut and shouldn't be practicing medicine anyway. I can't imagine if you were a recovering heroin addict or something; heaven help you with a guy like that! "Just cheer up and ride out those withdrawals!" Seriously, you can't base your attitude on a single or even series of events my man.

Why would a European doc be looking at an FDA booklet? The FDA only has jurisdiction in the US... Your problem is that you simply didn't know how to talk to them yet. AAS is schedule III for a reason here; it has a high propensity for abuse, which means that doctors and other medical personnel have to treat folks with a measure of scrutiny as the DEA is looking down their necks. Which surprises me in Europe as I thought it was a bit more lax there. In any event, you should have mentioned you have hypogonadism and let them do their thing. Depression isn't a reason for testosterone prescription, and you know this now. It's your hypogonadism that causes you to become depressed, not another chemical imbalance in your brain.

Yes, we are at the mercy of doctors to an extent. But so are folks on any quality of life sustaining medicine. Need a script for insulin where I live, same with blood pressure medicines, anti-anxiety meds, and many others that people need to maintain a quality of life they can appreciate. On the other hand though, I will bet you dollars to doughnuts I could acquire black market testosterone MUCH easier than actos/metformin/lisinopril or any of the other drugs I'm taking.

 

[Alpin]

You had a series of bad experiences, which by no means should change your outlook on life. So what if a doctor looks down on you for testosterone replacement therapy (TRT)? We both know the guy is a nut and shouldn't be practicing medicine anyway. I can't imagine if you were a recovering heroin addict or something; heaven help you with a guy like that! "Just cheer up and ride out those withdrawals!" Seriously, you can't base your attitude on a single or even series of events my man.

Why would a European doc be looking at an FDA booklet? The FDA only has jurisdiction in the US... Your problem is that you simply didn't know how to talk to them yet. AAS is schedule III for a reason here; it has a high propensity for abuse, which means that doctors and other medical personnel have to treat folks with a measure of scrutiny as the DEA is looking down their necks. Which surprises me in Europe as I thought it was a bit more lax there. In any event, you should have mentioned you have hypogonadism and let them do their thing. Depression isn't a reason for testosterone prescription, and you know this now. It's your hypogonadism that causes you to become depressed, not another chemical imbalance in your brain.

Yes, we are at the mercy of doctors to an extent. But so are folks on any quality of life sustaining medicine. Need a script for insulin where I live, same with blood pressure medicines, anti-anxiety meds, and many others that people need to maintain a quality of life they can appreciate. On the other hand though, I will bet you dollars to doughnuts I could acquire black market testosterone MUCH easier than actos/metformin/lisinopril or any of the other drugs I'm taking.

That's exactly what my family doc said to me: "ride it out....you'll be fine it will go up"
Fucking liar!
He was giving me pseudo medical advice on a subject that he self admittedly knows nothing about.
Total Fraud.
He wanted me to get my mind off it so he can put me on wellbutrin for life.
Band Aid the problem...don't fix it.

As far as the FDA book...I don't know...he had it on his desk and he showed me the cover and all and said some snarky stuff on how he follows it as well in Europe...
In Canada T is Schedule IV...
does that mean it's less restrictive here?

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

I thought we were all on the same page that gels suck?

 

[halfwit]

That's exactly what my family doc said to me: "ride it out....you'll be fine it will go up"
Fucking liar!
He was giving me pseudo medical advice on a subject that he self admittedly knows nothing about.
Total Fraud.
He wanted me to get my mind off it so he can put me on wellbutrin for life.
Band Aid the problem...don't fix it.

As far as the FDA book...I don't know...he had it on his desk and he showed me the cover and all and said some snarky stuff on how he follows it as well in Europe...
In Canada T is Schedule IV...
does that mean it's less restrictive here?

Exactly, you know that doc was a quack - so you can rest assured that the rest of the world doesn't really care if you inject your testosterone or if you make it yourself. Seriously, people worry too much what others think, even if others really don't give two shits what you're doing. It only seems to become an issue when we give outside opinions too much power over us.

Yes, it is less restricted in Canada. You are allowed to possess it for personal use, but it is illegal to buy it/sell it. I don't think the scheduling is a direct comparison, but it is more controlled here in the US. (Cannot possess/sell/buy without proper scripts/licenses)

 

[Alpin]

I thought we were all on the same page that gels suck?

They don't suck for the Doc's writing the scripts for the Gel... and big pharma who makes it.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

They don't suck to the Doc's writing the scripts for them and big pharma who makes them.

I know but you have to show them the literature showing it could take up to 6 months to develop steady state levels. Tell them you can't wait that long, and your afraid to rub it on whoever you are rubbing up on

 

[Alpin]

Exactly, you know that doc was a quack - so you can rest assured that the rest of the world doesn't really care if you inject your testosterone or if you make it yourself. Seriously, people worry too much what others think, even if others really don't give two shits what you're doing. It only seems to become an issue when we give outside opinions too much power over us.

Yes, it is less restricted in Canada. You are allowed to possess it for personal use, but it is illegal to buy it/sell it. I don't think the scheduling is a direct comparison, but it is more controlled here in the US. (Cannot possess/sell/buy without proper scripts/licenses)

Last week when I saw him he flipped out...he was looking at the labs, taking a breath...looking again. He looked upset and nervous. He was probably thinking to himself...I have to deal with this problem now. and it doesn't look like it's going away.

"There is no way a 33 y.o. healthy male should be hypogonadal...now it's because you took stuff"....
"Testosterone does not give energy...OK!!!!"
"Stop it"!!!!

this was what he said to me.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Well you have to know handle them. I wouldn't call it energy, rather not fatigue. You have to explain to him you are at a minus and just need to get back to normal, that your not looking to go above normal.

When you tell him it gives you energy, that makes him think you think that this is a way to escape diet and physical activity.

I would never say the word energy to him, it would be "I want to be far less fatigues, I shouldn't be this fatigues after short physical activity".

If that makes sense

 

[Alpin]

Well you have to know handle them. I wouldn't call it energy, rather not fatigue. You have to explain to him you are at a minus and just need to get back to normal, that your not looking to go above normal.

When you tell him it gives you energy, that makes him think you think that this is a way to escape diet and physical activity.

I would never say the word energy to him, it would be "I want to be far less fatigues, I shouldn't be this fatigues after short physical activity".

If that makes sense

I never said to him T "gives me energy"...
Told him the present state I'm in...that I get tired easily. Doesn't want to hear it.
He said he can do what T does...but with anti depressants...by raising all the chemicals in the brain the way T does.
Looks like he wants a lab rat....no thanks!
He's run a lot of his patients into the ground by the looks of it out in his lobby. Prescription med upon prescription med..
People coming to his office complaining the stuff he gave them can't allow them to function.

 

[Alpin]

And we are talking meds like:
Risperdal, Zyprexa, Olazipine....he prescribes this for people he labels as depressed.
He says he uses less SSRI's in his practice as a G.P.

 

[Brunodk]

Would a normal sperm count give any indication as to whether it could be primary or secondary?

 

[halfwit]

Last week when I saw him he flipped out...he was looking at the labs, taking a breath...looking again. He looked upset and nervous. He was probably thinking to himself...I have to deal with this problem now. and it doesn't look like it's going away.

"There is no way a 33 y.o. healthy male should be hypogonadal...now it's because you took stuff"....
"Testosterone does not give energy...OK!!!!"
"Stop it"!!!!

this was what he said to me.

A healthy 33 y.o. SHOULDN'T by hypogonadal, but his job isn't to place blame, it's to treat his patient. Aren't you glad you're done with him?

Would a normal sperm count give any indication as to whether it could be primary or secondary?

Nope, sadly it doesn't. You would think if you were primary that you would have a low FSH, hence low sperm motility/count, but I am (or my daughter rather) is living proof that you can be primary and have plenty of healthy sperm still.

Edit: Forgot to say hi to DET-OAK! Haven't seen you posting in awhile, glad to see you active around again.

 

[Brunodk]

Nope, sadly it doesn't. You would think if you were primary that you would have a low FSH, hence low sperm motility/count, but I am (or my daughter rather) is living proof that you can be primary and have plenty of healthy sperm still.

Thanks. I figured that was the case but just thought I'd ask since I checked out ok when my wife and I were going through fertility treatment. We added another one naturally after success with IVF the first time so at least I'm glad my boys are still working!