450mg TEST E/P blood work questions

[ghost22]

hey fellas lets start by me being a 33 y/o active male. I work out 5-6 times a week. Started at 168 lbs at 14% BF. I am 5'7 in height. I have been doing blood work every year for the past 6-7 years and Ive always noticed my test serum alway cruising through 325-450 range. Finally decided to take the plunge with some Test.

PRE-labwork:

Test serum - 430 ng/dL
LH- 5.4 in a 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL
FSH- 2.6 in a 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL
Estradiol - 24.0 in a 7.6-42.6 pg/mL


Decided to buy a test blend which was a 250 mg test E/100mg test P for every mL. I did buy the arimidex AI and nolva/clomid for pct.

Started my first ever cycle journey August 1st. 350mg blend once a week along side with .25mg of dex EOD. I felt great and beyond horny by the second week lol! Wife sure freaked out on that one. I decided to jump on Test E only on the 3rd week pinning twice a week at 225mg alternating glutes continuing the dex at .50mg eod. The pumps in the gym are great, libido is awesome and loosing minimal size in testes from what Im able to notice. Morning wood is more like morning cement. I have noticed my shoulders/triceps actually rounding out. I am currently at 179 lbs. Yesterday marks the start of week 6 in the cycle but I feel decent and not like the superman feeling I had. My libido and wood arnt what they were the first 4 weeks. I was thinking maybe my e2 levels are low or even maybe got some bunk gear. I went back to the dex at .25mg e3d instead. Decided to get some mid lab work done as well.

MID-labwork:

Test serum - 1313
LH - 0.1
FSH - <0.2
estradiol - 29.1

Looks like the gear is good? Maybe I'm over thinking things? Kind of confused on whats been going on week 5-6 :/. Was it the switch from the blend to the test E only? Is it the AI? Would love some insight on what you all may think it could be. Sorry for my English in advance. It is not my first language. here is a breakdown of the 12 week cycle.

week 1-3 Test blend (250mg test E/100mg test P) 350mg 1x a week
week 4-5 Test E 450mg?(2 x a week 225mg)

week 1-3 arimidex .25mg eod
week 3-4 arimidex .50mg eod
week 5 arimidex .25mg e3d


thank you!

 

[IMT staff]

Thats kind of low for your dosage. We get it all wrong when we are newbs, more isn't always better in this game. The higher you go, the more risk you take on, and the less results you get, per mg. At your age when you do these cycles you end up losing most of what you gain during and after PCT. Then once you feel like crap and lose everything and you feel like you can't take it anymore then you just do another cycle.

Everyone does it, if you only knew how many times I have heard I am only doing 1 cycle lol

So at your age, with the damage it will do to your HPTA, you are better off, safer and you will keep your results if you just do TRT instead.

Then you won't be all bloated and have all these side effects either. You can even add growth hormone optimization to your TRT program and I bet you get better results than some bloated cycle. You can also drive around with it on your dashboard if you would like, because you are on doctor prescribed/monitored TRT.

On top of all of this, you know what your injecting into your body doesn't have any harmful additives, and you know its dosed properly. Yours seems that it may not be, on your dosage you should be at or above 2500 in your trough.

So at your age, it really makes no sense to "cycle". Hope this helps

 

[PapaNoel]

So many questions here...
Lets start with age 33 and 430ng/dl is low... Its not horrible, but its should be closer to 600ng/dl (I have same values)

350mg blend per week is a low dose and should have been split into 2 doses per week at 500mg total.
Its been what, 6 weeks since you started pinning?
Which means the test E should peaked or be very close to peaking.

Some veteran will have to do the math but 1313ng/dl for 450mg test e week seems very low.
You could reach the same levels with clomid and HCG alone... (For reference, 25mg clomid ED raises my test levels from 450ish to 1100ish.)

You should also buy HCG asap and inject 250iu twice per week with your test e injections. Specially if you like your balls.
(Everyone is different but HCG increases my libido and sexdrive a lot... Only thing other thing that makes me an animal is masteron...holy shit...)

Last but not least.... 1.75mg adex per week on 450mg test is very high... It should be closer to 0.8-0.9ish mg per week for 450mg test.
Tried googling JP's E2 chart by age but it 29.1 looks fine, its even an increase from pre bloodwork and not dangerously high.

About week 5-6, the blend and/or test e, my guess is that your total testosterone levels dropped and haven't fully peaked the test e since you started it week 4-5.
The test e will still be active but the prop would have bleed out after 5-7 days, effectively putting you at 250mg / week, on a single injection. Which is kinda cruise/TRT dose.

 

[PapaNoel]

If i had to guess, you'll stabilize both testo and e2 levels in about 3 week if you continue your current protocol and have the same sexdrive/libido etc as your first weeks with prop kickstarter.
But dude...buy HCG, its very important in any cycle.

 

[PapaNoel]

So at your age, with the damage it will do to your HPTA, you are better off, safer and you will keep your results if you just do TRT instead.

He's 33 years old bro.
Same exact age at me, with very similar values...

So you saying it makes no sense to cycle at all for me?
Genuine question...because I've had similar thoughts... Its a life style and I burn out...
But still want and have the same goals...just thinking if I should focus on 6-12 months periods vs 2-3 months all in balls to the walls.

 

[IMT staff]

Well its definitely a personal choice at the end of the day, but my point is, what is the difference between staying on year round or a couple (2-3) cycles per year? Lets say you do 3 x 10 week cycles, that doesn't give you enough to to recover fully. So you go through these down times for no reason.

Now if you are really going to take enough time off to recover than thats one thing, but the truth is nobody ever does. A real time on = time off means you can really only do one cycle per year.

Lets say I wanna do a 12 week cycle. That testosterone isn't going to be out of my system until at least week 15. Now we need at least a week or 2 of HCG and then 4-6 weeks of Serms. So now we are all the way to a 21-24 week time period, if we really stay true to the time on time off rule, then thats 45 weeks out of the year I am dealing with a single cycle.

If you don't do it like that, your not giving yourself enough time to recover. Most people will do at least 2 cycles per year and maybe even 3. So there is no time for recovery, your basically suppressing your HPTA year round, but your doing these crazy high dosages, and then pulling the plug, which is actually worse for your health than a moderate steady TRT dosage.

Then on top of that. with TRT, like I said you also keep your dosage on the safer lower side and not coming off allows you to maintain your progress point.

The other thing you have to consider is, what is recovery? 33 years is not old but for someone that has used steroids before it kind of is, in terms of HPTA function. SO what is recovery? 4oo ng/dl? Most guys wouldn't be happy at those levels.

So at the end of the day it is a personal choice, but I don't see the benefit in cycling.

 

[PapaNoel]

The other thing you have to consider is, what is recovery? 33 years is not old but for someone that has used steroids before it kind of is, in terms of HPTA function. SO what is recovery? 4oo ng/dl? Most guys wouldn't be happy at those levels.

So at the end of the day it is a personal choice, but I don't see the benefit in cycling.

As mentioned million of times, only thing i truly regret is not getting precycle blood works... No idea what I had before...
But i'm around 450ng/dl, which for my age is about 150ng/dl too low.

And honestly...if I didnt come here, learn, do cycles etc. I wouldnt have noticed/cared its considered low.
And i know from previous bloodwork that I'm around 1000-1100ng/dl (unsure about conversion, but my values are 14(off) and 34 on clomid (reference is 10-35)

And I do agree, i ran 4 month cycle, about a month in on pct and another month left... Which is a long time to recover properly....

My only concern is ability to have kids...(Given the compounds i've ran twice might not be the best of ideas)
But i'm definitely leaning towards your approach here IMT.

Maybe I dont even need TRT, maybe 25mg clomid ed + 500iu HCG / week would be enough to put me around 1200, which would be the upper value.

 

[scorob777]

Here is a chart showing what your blood levels of testosterone are doing. I used 3 weeks of the 250 E 100P blend at 1x/wk, then week #4 switched to 450E at 2x/wk (225/shot). For E half life is 10 days, for P 3.5 days.

The blue is the Prop, yellow the E in the blend, the red the E you started wk 4. The black is the total of all of them, so it's what's important.

View attachment 567603

For you to hit steady state would take another three to four weeks.

My guess based on your lab result of 1313 is your second bottle of Test E is all or partially bunk. Your levels at that dosage should be at least double where you are.

For adex, the dosage seems too high but your result at 29 is right where it should be. If your second bottle of Test E is indeed bunk you should see test continuing to fall and E2 to fall in the coming weeks.

 

[ghost22]

Wow so much response and advice! I really appreciate the time you all took to read and comment. As of now I decided to jump on the Blend at 350mg(Tuesday) and the test E at 150mg (Fridays). The arimidex I will continue it through at .25mg eod. Let’s see what the progress will show. I will post up more details in the upcoming weeks followed by labwork once again.

Can one still build some muscle at yet level of 1313? What are the pros/cons of being at that level than from 2500?

 

[PapaNoel]

View attachment 567603
For you to hit steady state would take another three to four weeks..

Can you please send me the link in PM to your graph site?
I tried using another one, as I suspected he wouldnt peak for another 2-4 weeks but graph/site i used just showed insane peaks and lows but fully saturated. :/

 

[PapaNoel]

Can one still build some muscle at yet level of 1313? What are the pros/cons of being at that level than from 2500?

For a healthy adult at 33 years age(we're both the same age) your test values should be 600-650ng/dl.
USA/EU uses slightly different values for optimal values but if i'm not misstaken 1100-1200 is considered "max natty levels".
Which would mean 1313 will make a significant difference in terms of recovery, protein syntheses etc....BUT the doses are more of a cruise than actual cycle.

For example... I used about 600mg/week test prop and my values was capped (my lab doesnt show anything above 1500 or 2000ng/dl)

The pro's and cons, would be higher risk of side effects with better gains, to keep it simple. But you'll hit diminishing returns rather quickly.. Thats why the recommendation is 500mg / week.
With that said... I felt better on 300mg/week test (with tren/masteron) than I did on 650mg/week testo. The difference on second cycle was twice amount of masteron and that shit makes me a horny teenager, that'll fuck anything softer than a wall lol